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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Darlington, WA
    Age
    52
    Posts
    12

    Default Advice re: Converting 3phase to single phase

    Hi experts,

    We are about to move to a new house and I have just discovered that 3phase power is not available. This is a bit of a problem since I have a shed full of 3phase machines that I was expecting to be able to use (spent the last two years sourcing some nice machines). I am considering either changing the motors to single phase. If this is not feasible I may consider replacing them all with equivalent single phase if possible however I reckon this will probably be costly. I have the following machines:

    Wadkin panel saw - 3HP
    500mm thicknesser - 5HP (expect that I could not get this in single phase)
    300mm planer - 3HP

    Anyone have comments, suggestions or have been in this situation before?

    Len Nielsen

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Gosford
    Age
    56
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    165

    Default

    i am in that situation now... and i am selling all my gear. many people on this site have recommended me to convert ....but after talking to an electrical engineer, i have decided to buy something that is designed to be the way it is and not modified. it was my personal choice in this matter. i was going to get a converter box made...but you need one pacific to each need, that is one per unit. too much money for me to do. i will buy new gear that requires single phase. good luck

  4. #3
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Kuranda, paradise, North Qld
    Age
    62
    Posts
    5,639

    Default

    3hp on single phase is not a problem. 5hp will require a dedicated circuit, either hard wired or with a w20 or 25 amp plug (check with sparky). Probably cheaper and easier than an inverter.

    Mick
    "If you need a machine today and don't buy it,

    tomorrow you will have paid for it and not have it."

    - Henry Ford 1938

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    geelong
    Age
    52
    Posts
    120

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Kuranda, paradise, North Qld
    Age
    62
    Posts
    5,639

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rileyp View Post
    I wonder how the price of an inverter would stack up against 2 x 3hp and 1 x 5hp motor though?

    Mick
    "If you need a machine today and don't buy it,

    tomorrow you will have paid for it and not have it."

    - Henry Ford 1938

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Meadow Springs, WA
    Age
    76
    Posts
    574

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rileyp View Post
    I recently asked my brother, an electrician, about those. He doesn't think they're very good.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Darlington, WA
    Age
    52
    Posts
    12

    Default

    Thanks for the feedback and advice everyone,

    I have been speaking further to the electrician about either using single phase machines or possibly trying a phase converter. However, it seems that due to the total capacity available (I think this is approx 28 amps) I have limited options for machinery. The advice is that using single phase machines I would probably not be able to run much more than 3 HP in the shed at any time. Not much good for remilling old jarrah and especially not when you want to run a 2 hp dust extractor at the same time.

    So, I am waiting on a quote to get a new 3phase connection from the road (100m away) - which I expect will probably require a comfortable seat and soothing music....

    I have my fingers crossed that I wont be trading woodwork for macrame! Might be some bargain machinery available of this forum if this is the case.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Too close to Sydney
    Posts
    1,385

    Default

    Materials to run about 100m of 25mm2 of 4 core wire and 50mm conduit underground will set you back around $2500. You need to hire a trencher (1 day) and buy a pole ($800) and pay a sparky to hook it up at both ends.

    If you can get a sparky to agree to you doing the leg work then it will probably cost you less than $5,000. I did the same thing but I have a backhoe and my mate is the sparky.

    I don't think you should be looking at if from a woodwork only perspective as you would be upgrading your entire supply which was probably done a long time ago.

    If I couldn't afford to do this I would buy the 3Hp motors single phase motors ($1200 for three of them) and change over the motors. You can keep the same switchgear as far as I am aware.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Darlington, WA
    Age
    52
    Posts
    12

    Default

    Thanks Boban,

    Will be speaking more to the sparky after he has done his sums. I am hoping to do the leg work too so your figure might be right. The location is prone to rock so this could complicate things a bit. Pity you were not in WA with that backhoe of yours!

    Len

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    geelong
    Age
    52
    Posts
    120

    Default

    Three phase may not be available in the street either pending how rural you are.
    (cost of a new tranny just may be a little exclusive)
    This website is excellent for ball park prices for motors etc
    http://www.roycecross.com.au/product...iable&Variable[cat1]=Variable+Speed+Drives&Variable[cat2]=Teco+VF+Drives&Variable[cat3]=240V+Input+VFD&Variable[searchfilter]=-1&Variable[sqlFilter]=-1&pager=1&startpage=1
    Another option would be to buy a single to 3 phase variable speed drive. with 3 different set ups programmed in.
    But this option along with the phase changer I linked above which they just happen to sell as well would mean unplugging and replugging of different motors all the time which is a pata.(you could get your spark to set up a rotary switch to select which motor is connected via a few contactors and a switchboard if you can get your mits on this kinda stuff.
    I throw this stuff away all the time and then when I want it I havent got it.....
    cheers Peter.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    kuranda north qld
    Posts
    717

    Smile

    have seen vfd that convert 1phase to 3 on ebay usa to run 5hp .and 3hp are easy to source .although can be expensive . you may find the machinery you have . can have the motors changed to single phase providing they can fit the motor to your machines . would check you can get the power with your existing s/board . else stanley make some nice planes , best of luck bob

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Jimboomba Qld.
    Age
    69
    Posts
    594

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nielsen View Post
    Hi experts,

    We are about to move to a new house and I have just discovered that 3phase power is not available. This is a bit of a problem since I have a shed full of 3phase machines that I was expecting to be able to use (spent the last two years sourcing some nice machines). I am considering either changing the motors to single phase. If this is not feasible I may consider replacing them all with equivalent single phase if possible however I reckon this will probably be costly. I have the following machines:

    Wadkin panel saw - 3HP
    500mm thicknesser - 5HP (expect that I could not get this in single phase)
    300mm planer - 3HP

    Anyone have comments, suggestions or have been in this situation before?

    Len Nielsen
    HI Len,

    Recently had to convert an old Woodfast combination from 3hp 3 phase to single phase. About $400.00 for same size and speed motor plus $200.00 for another wire to be added so I could get a reverse switch. Costly but cheaper than buying a new machine.

    Cheers


    Steve
    Discover your Passion and Patience follows.
    www.fineboxes.com.au

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Kyabram. Vic
    Posts
    826

    Default

    Johncs,

    What is the problem with RPC's that you alluded to?
    Is it brand specific; or is it a generic thing?

    I would be interested to know as I am about to place an order for a 4kw unit.

    Ken

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    geelong
    Age
    52
    Posts
    120

    Default

    Johncs I am a sparky as well and unless your brother has actually used one of those devices how would he know?
    I wire up motors everyday.
    Fans and pumps for air conditioning
    I supervised the installation and personally commissioned over 200 variable speed drives last year along with a truckload of DOL motors as well.

    Those phase invertor things I found appear to be have been used in industry for sewage pumping sitiuations and so I would have no qualms reccomending one for home use on a tablesaw etc...not that I have ever used one. They are no doubt the goods that deliver!
    It appears they are exporting them as well!

    With regard to variable speed drives
    I have installed single to 3 phase variable speed drives on the occasion when we have been given bad info by the air con company and run 1 phase cables down four floors and across 60 metres of building to find when the fans were installed 3 working days before xmas they were 3 phase and of course they had to work prior to break up. The A C company decided the fastest fix would be 240Volt(1 phase) to 3 phase variable speed drives.... I installed them 3 years ago and haven't been back.... There is a catch though ( The motors must be suitable for a 240 delta connection (not 415 star) like most no load on start up 3 phase gear.
    cheers Peter

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Armidale NSW
    Age
    52
    Posts
    1,938

    Default

    I use a static phase converter in my shed to run a large saw (7HP) and 3HP dusty. I have not had any trouble with it, even though the quality of the "output" is supposed to be lower than that of an RPC.

    I think that phase converters are a great (and can be quite inexpensive) solution to running 3 phase gear off single phase, FOR CERTAIN APPLICATIONS. I wouldn't, for instance, hook up expensive and sensitive electronic gear to a phase converter. I might however consider running that sort of gear of a VFD depending on the quality of the output.
    Cheers.

    Vernon.
    __________________________________________________
    Bite off more than you can chew and then chew like crazy.

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