A Quick, and probably stupid, question

[ElizaLeahy]

I know, you are saying "there are no stupid questions."

Well, I think after you read this one you are going to say "That's a stupid question!"

Please remember I've never actually seen anyone turning, except on you tube!

Every has always said that the scraper is an "easy" tool. But I always get catches straight away and threw it down in disgust.

So here is the question..

Which side of the scraper goes against the tool rest?

[jefferson]

Eliza, the pointy end goes up. Hold the scraper tip slightly down, so if you get the hint of a catch, the tip simply goes into the space below. And don't use all of the edge of the tool, just a portion of it.

As for sheer scraping, I'll let the other guys inform you. :D

[ElizaLeahy]

Still not clear. I use it bevel down, as with all tools. I saw something somewhere online that made me thing it might be used bevel facing up?

[Rookie]

:whs:
The scraper was described to me as the only tool that points down to the work instead of up. Flat on the rest, "bevel down" if I can mix my terminology.

Like Jeff also said. Someone who knows how to sheer scrape can tell you about that

[Rookie]

Still not clear. I use it bevel down, as with all tools. I saw something somewhere online that made me thing it might be used bevel facing up?
Crossed over there.

Certainly not bevel up Eliza. That would have the tool handle down and the sharp end well up . The work would just rub against the bevel until you got the pointy end up high enough that it catches.

I always set my rest just above centre, then point down to the work 10 to 20 degress depending on the timber and level of finesse required.

[petersemple]

One thing you need to remember with a scraper is that you never, ever want the bevel rubbing on the work like with other tools. The very top edge is all you want in contact with the work.

Peter

[ElizaLeahy]

drat, I had hoped it was upside down and that would have explained why it catches for me.

Obviously I'm just too heavy handed!

Thanks everyone.

[tea lady]

and you have the tool rest height set so that the scraper contacts at center or maybe slightly below.

The other tool that kinda looks like a scraper and is used the other way around is the 'bedan" (sp? :C ). Which is french I think. Its sort of used over the top of the work and completely differently. Looks even scarier than a skew.:doh:

[tea lady]

drat, I had hoped it was upside down and that would have explained why it catches for me.

Obviously I'm just too heavy handed!

Thanks everyone.Heavy handed? Possibly. :shrug: Sharpness helps, so you still get curlies. I only use them to smooth out curves after using the bowl or spindle gouge, cos they are much quicker at actually getting wood off, but I'm not so good at getting it smooth. (but I'm getting better.:cool: )

[Rookie]

I'm still confused as to why it's catching then Eliza.

What are you using it on. If it's the inside of a bowl, unless you're careful, the corners of the scraper can catch on the inside curve if you don't rotate the tool horizontally around the point it sits on the rest. I still fall for that one way too often.

[hughie]

Eliza,
Basically you dont want the scraper lying flat on the tool rest...... :o can be very frightening. Try rolling up to around 45' or greater, you could have it vertical at this point it wont cut. Then slowly move it off the vertical until it starts to cut.


| vertical and then roll it to / it should start to slice or scrape a whisper off.

If you still have a problem pm me I might have something that can help you.

I take it your scraping the inside of a bowl or hollow vessel of some sort, yes?

[RETIRED]

I hope Hughie is describing a shear scrape.

[hughie]

I hope Hughie is describing a shear scrape.


Thats what I had in mind . :U

[ElizaLeahy]

You mean that there are different kinds of scrape?

Not trying it with anything just now (playing with little boxes). But when turning bowls in the past I've tried it and ALWAYS caught almost the instant it hits the wood.

As far as I can tell I'm using it exactly the way you suggest. I'm alone at the moment so can't take a photo - anyone out there who has someone with them who could take a photo for me?

Thanks

[hughie]

You mean that there are different kinds of scrape?


doncha just love it when it gets more complicated. :U

[mick61]

This is what you need to scrap the inside of boxes.
The tool already sits at the right angle so you only have to control forwards back and side to side not rotation hope that makes sense.
Mick:D

[Ozkaban]

You mean that there are different kinds of scrape?

Not trying it with anything just now (playing with little boxes). But when turning bowls in the past I've tried it and ALWAYS caught almost the instant it hits the wood.

As far as I can tell I'm using it exactly the way you suggest. I'm alone at the moment so can't take a photo - anyone out there who has someone with them who could take a photo for me?

Thanks

I'm no expert, but the way I use the scraper is with the handle held higher than the blade, with the burr created by sharpening on the top of the chisel rubbing the wood below the centre line and the bevel no where near the wood, ie the wood is not turning into the chisel as in for a cut with a skew or gouge, but away from the chisel.

Does this make sense? If not, I'll try and do a diagram.

Cheers,
Dave

[DJ’s Timber]

Here's a quick diagram I just drew up on paint to show you the basics of how to use it.

[Ozkaban]

Here's a quick sketchup diagram.

The angles are just quickly made up - I've never scraped by looking at it from the side before so I'm not sure how it compares. I just find a nice angle that takes a curly off with the burr... The same sort of action works on the bowl or spindle - I am not talking about shear scraping here at all.

I didn't include such niceties as a tool rest or the lathe - too many people looking over my choulder at work :D

If I've got this wrong, would one of the gurus be so kind as to correct me?

Cheers,
Dave

[Ozkaban]

here's a quick diagram i just drew up on paint to show you the basics of how to use it.

snap!:doh:

[DJ’s Timber]

snap!:doh:

Beat you by that much :q :U

[RETIRED]

Folks, please remember that Eliza is a beginner.

I would say that she is having trouble scraping the inside of a small box.

To try to explain shear scraping without the fundamentals of normal scraping in a confined space is not the right course.

[Ozkaban]

:D My bad for trying to do a funky 3D diagram :doh:

Mind you, I now have a scraper chisel component saved off for use on other Sketchup diagrams. Which I'm sure to need... I'm sure!

Cheers,
dave

[ElizaLeahy]

I loves :)

:kissyou:

I'm just waiting for ink to dry so I can finish turning a foot and a finial - then I'm going to try to take some photos. Then you can say "no" "yes" and "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING WOMAN!!!"

heehee

Thanks for the diagrams!

:)

[ElizaLeahy]

pretend that the tailstock there is actually the head and has wood in it.

Which of these, if any, is correct for doing inside bowls?

[DJ’s Timber]

This one http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=110924&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1247721986 shows the tool sitting the correct way up and pretty much in the correct position it should be cutting as well, tool rest needs to be higher though. Tool rest should be above centre so that the tip of the scraper is is just a smidgen above the centre height of the bowl/box you're turning.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

For plain, everyday scraping... #3. I'd use even more of a downward angle & the rest an inch higher. :)

#1 will work, sorta, but the tool is upside-down.

#2 can cause instant catches. (Unless you use it like a bedan, but that's whole different tool. :rolleyes:)

#4... don't do that. Yet. If the tool catches, because it's not sitting on the rest it'll slam down flat and possibly pinch fingers.

#5 works, but tends to cut roughly unless the tool is very, very sharp.

[ElizaLeahy]

OK, I'll try again. I have some bowl blanks waiting for me to finish having fun with boxes - so once I finish this box I'll throw one on and see how it goes!

Many thanks to everyone who tried to get this into my thick skull!

:)

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

One other thing... you don't want a lot of tool overhanging the toolrest. That can cause "chatter," which is the tool bouncing around, and that can also lead to catches.

Keep the toolrest as close as possible to the wood as you can, while still leaving just enough space to work. For that scraper, I'd guess at around 3/4" max. gap between the rest and the cutting face.

[ElizaLeahy]

Skew, I think you might have it! Chatter and grab is what it does.

So now I need to buy one of those curved tool rests, right?

Zoe WILL be pleased :)

[RETIRED]

Skew, I think you might have it! Chatter and grab is what it does.

So now I need to buy one of those curved tool rests, right?

Zoe WILL be pleased :)No. I personally find curved rests are a pain in the proverbial unless you do the same shape each time.

Learn to use the rest you have and get it as close as possible to the work.

[KenW]

No. I personally find curved rests are a pain in the proverbial unless you do the same shape each time.

Learn to use the rest you have and get it as close as possible to the work.

I agree with , use the rest you have.
Just to confuse you, when I do a simple scrape, I use photo #2. With the toolrest well above centre. Scraping requires a delicate touch. Don't hold the tool to tight and force it to cut.
If you are still having trouble with catches, try increasing the angle of your bevel (60-70 degrees). Your scraper also needs to be more curved on the left hand side, it will follow the shape of the bowl easier.

[jefferson]

I loves :)

:kissyou:


:)

Good God, not another female with a fetish! :oo::oo:

Eliza, you must come down and meet the guy. Don't forget to bring custard tarts and plenty of cream. :D:D

[Calm]

Good God, not another female with a fetish! :oo::oo:

Eliza, you must come down and meet the guy. Don't forget to bring custard tarts and plenty of cream. :D:D

Dont knw what they see in him personally he's not my "cup of tea":D:D:D

rethink nope does nothing for me.:p:p:p

[ElizaLeahy]

it's the size of his lathe

:p

[RETIRED]

Damn, Damn!! I thought that it was because I was suave, sophisticated and good looking.

I forgot my modesty as well but the forum isn't big enough to tell you.:rolleyes::D

[Cliff Rogers]

.... the forum isn't big enough to tell you.:rolleyes::D
I did say we might need a poetry forum didn't I? :think:

[Cliff Rogers]

You mean that there are different kinds of scrape?....


doncha just love it when it gets more complicated. :U
Wait til we get to cutting without rubbing the bevel. :p

[Calm]

Damn, Damn!! I thought that it was because I was suave, sophisticated and good looking.

I forgot my modesty as well but the forum isn't big enough to tell you.:rolleyes::D

I thought a postge stamp would have room left - even if you left caps lock on.:D:D:p:p:roll:

[TTIT]

No. I personally find curved rests are a pain in the proverbial unless you do the same shape each time.

Learn to use the rest you have and get it as close as possible to the work.Great :doh:- now he tells me! :C Lashed out and bought one a few weeks ago with some prizemoney - reinvestment sort of thing :shrug: . Haven't tried it yet - and have suddenly lost interest in it - bugga! :B

[Barry_White]

Well I might as well stick my 2 cents worth in on scrapers, as a Patternmaker 55 years ago when turning 8 feet diameter segmented rings on an outboard lathe with a pit in the floor to accommodate the pattern diameter we used to grind a top bevel on the scraper like a half baked skew because we became $h#t scared of a catch.

This tended to reduce any catches. In fact we used to use a skew chisel as a scraper a lot of the time and I still do use the skew as a scraper when finishing pens because it gives a beautiful smooth finish and gets rid of any ridges left by using the skew as a slicing tool.

[NCPaladin]

Try going to http://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/
If this link does not work, go to "robert sorby", click the "Movie Clips" tab, and go to "Multi Tip Hollowing Tool". There are 3 or 4 clips on how to use the scraper as well as other the cutter. Even if you don't have a Sorby, the cutting edge should be presented in the same way. Note their info on the height of the tool rest and how/where the tool meets the wood.
Mike

[Texian]

Guess I am the only one that does scraping and shear scraping with bowl gouges. My one scraper is in the "tools we don't use anymore" rack. Always got too many catches with it, even when used as suggested. Different strokes - - -

[Cliff Rogers]

Great :doh:- now he tells me! :C Lashed out and bought one a few weeks ago with some prizemoney - reinvestment sort of thing :shrug: . Haven't tried it yet - and have suddenly lost interest in it - bugga! :B
Which one did you get?

I got one that has a removable/swappable rest.

I found that the little post on top of the main post is too small for rough buggers like me & I bent it the first time I used it. :cool:

[TTIT]

Guess I am the only one that does scraping and shear scraping with bowl gouges. My one scraper is in the "tools we don't use anymore" rack. Always got too many catches with it, even when used as suggested. Different strokes - - -Not quite Tex - my scraper is in the same place for the same reason :U but I use a Sorby teardrop for shear-scraping on pretty well everything I make.


Which one did you get?

I got one that has a removable/swappable rest.

I found that the little post on top of the main post is too small for rough buggers like me & I bent it the first time I used it. :cool:Got the Vermec jobbie with the replaceable post - hope it's strong enough - if I ever get to use it :B

[Cliff Rogers]

That's the one I bent. :-

I have bashed it straight again & I think I'll weld it solid.... I haven't used it since I bent it.

[ElizaLeahy]

Try going to http://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/
If this link does not work, go to "robert sorby", click the "Movie Clips" tab, and go to "Multi Tip Hollowing Tool". There are 3 or 4 clips on how to use the scraper as well as other the cutter. Even if you don't have a Sorby, the cutting edge should be presented in the same way. Note their info on the height of the tool rest and how/where the tool meets the wood.
Mike

Great! Thank you, I'm on my way there


Guess I am the only one that does scraping and shear scraping with bowl gouges. My one scraper is in the "tools we don't use anymore" rack. Always got too many catches with it, even when used as suggested. Different strokes - - -

That's what I do - but I wouldn't have admitted it if you hadn't have said it first! I have my HSS set (cheap, big) but I also have some old Marple tools that I love to pieces. Might not be HSS, but they cut just as well, and they are smaller, more suited to me and what I make. Their "rough gouge" has a fairly flat profile and I use it as a scraper/skew! Often, after using the big roughing gouge to make the square blank round, that is the ONLY tool I use to make pens, and when making hair sticks, only that and the skew (to make the point).

I'm learning...

Thank you :)

[KenW]

Which one did you get?

I got one that has a removable/swappable rest.

I found that the little post on top of the main post is too small for rough buggers like me & I bent it the first time I used it. :cool:
How can a gentle turner like you bend a toolrest?

[Cliff Rogers]

how can a gentle turner like you bend a toolrest?
Easy. :D

[hughie]

I have broken my cast iron one twice and bent a P&N 3/8 gouge, its easy. :U

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I've bent my ripsnorter... :-

[ElizaLeahy]

I bent my face...

:B

[Texian]

That's what I do - but I wouldn't have admitted it if you hadn't have said it first!

Nothing wrong with admitting it, as it requires a bit of skill and control since you are using a very narrow portion of the cutting edge, very near the nose of the gouge. At least that's one way.