The great chuck runout debate

[Grumpy John]

There has been a mass debate recently about chucks, adaptors and the amount of acceptable runout. Just for the hell of it I checked out my four chucks and adaptors. Attached is a boring 15 minute video of how I went about it. I left the setup of the first chuck complete (without editing), but edited the other 3 setups to keep the file size down, and to save peoples sanity. I forgot to reset the camera to capture the runout on the face of the first Vicmarc adaptor :doh: but it was <0.00025" (believe me, I work at Bunnys :D)

The chucks tested were:
A reasonably new (3 month old) Vicmarc VM120 with Vicmarc adaptor
A 5 y/o VM120 with VM adaptor
A G3 ~3 y/o with a T/Tool adaptor
A GPW 100 mm chuck (purchased at last years Melb. WWW show) with supplied adaptor.


In the washup I think the GPW chuck came out the best, and it was the cheapest :2tsup:.

Good news/bad news, I couldn't get the file to upload as one big file so I had to split it into 5 smaller files. Good news if you find it boring, bad news is it breaks the continuity. Anyway enjoy :D.

[hughie]

Ooley dooley you've been busy :U

[Ed Reiss]

Hell, John....of course there won't be any runout, you guys are smack dab in the middle of winter and the metal has contracted (you know "shrinkage") so much there can't possibly be any runout:no::no::no::D:D:D:D:D

Seriously, the blues in the background added a lot to the vids...made the time bearable:rolleyes::D:D


Well, looks like you've got four well machined chucks and inserts...take it that the GPW is a local manufacturer chuck, don't think I've heard of it here in the states.

I'm still waiting to hear back from Craft Supplies about the Super Nova :C

[texx]

just thought i would mention its that the blues in the background makes the file a lot bigger .
not complaining just explaining .
interesting by the way

[Grumpy John]

Hell, John....of course there won't be any runout, you guys are smack dab in the middle of winter and the metal has contracted (you know "shrinkage") so much there can't possibly be any runout

Seriously, the blues in the background added a lot to the vids...made the time bearable


Well, looks like you've got four well machined chucks and inserts...take it that the GPW is a local manufacturer chuck, don't think I've heard of it here in the states.

I'm still waiting to hear back from Craft Supplies about the Super Nova :C

Sorry Ed, I had to remove some of your smilies. Couldn't upload reply........ too many images in post

G'day Ed, it may be the middle of winter here but there was still plenty of thread clearance on all the threads, except for............. you guessed it, the G3 :rolleyes:. Glad you liked the background music, prolly made the vids bearable. I gave up the commentary after the first chuck because it was pretty self explanatory what I was doing. The GPW (http://gpwoodturning.sitesuitestores.com/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107136782&product_id=1107445144) is a cheap Chiwanese knock off that sells for AU$215 including 4 jaws sets and adaptor.
I hope everything turns out for the best with your Super Nova saga.



just thought i would mention its that the blues in the background makes the file a lot bigger .
not complaining just explaining .
interesting by the way

Thanks Texx, I new the music added to the file size. There's almost as much debate about what music we listen to while turning, but that's been covered in another thread.

[wheelinround]

John well done a variety of chucks and adaptors music wasn't to bad (not a real blues fan)

I see the largest runout on the G3 as being almost 9 thou :doh: is that chuck pre-Chinese or post.

Ray

[Grumpy John]

Ray, from memory I think I bought the G3 new about 3 years ago. I'll see if I can dig up the receipt. Does that make it a Chinese one?

[hughie]

If a chuck has .009" run out on a wood lathe, I reckon thats tolerable. At the end of the day we are free hand turning and after we have run our sand paper over the job to finish and especially if you power sand. I suspect most turning jobs will have that and more on the run out.

For me such details are only an indicator of how well they are made and I do note sloppy machining usually means the whole tool is under par.... or worse :C The turner has to and will work around these little challenges.

I have 5 SN2 chucks and have no idea if and or how much they run out. It has never occurred to me to check, also cant find my darn dial gauge indicator. :U

[wheelinround]

No don't think so John they only went there in the last 12 months.

Hughie looking at Ed's video his was visually wobbly John's I could only see one that had out chuck wobble visually so minor hardly noticable

A mate who's a Tool maker fitter machinist was saying after watching Ed's video that even Machine lathes have this problem from time to time some times caused by line up of threads when putting them on so they just remove and try again :roll:

[hughie]

Ray ,
Yeah I find that a little run out is not that much of a problem. But when there is run out you can usually find more sloppy work else where on the item and its often serious. ggrrhh!


I have got some bits that might be useful for your rose engine.

[wheelinround]

Ray ,

I have got some bits that might be useful for your rose engine.

:BMean's I'll have to start working on it again when its warmer :U and get it working :2tsup:

[Frank&Earnest]

Seems to confirm my hands-on observation that the (my) GPW is at least as good as the (my) pre-Chinese Supernova2. So much for the anti-Chiwanese bias.

[nalmo]

I believe the GPW chuck is marketed in the US under the name Barracuda 2.

[Calm]

Well John i watched it this morning and the first thing i thought was You need to get a life or more hours at Bunnies,:q:q

But then again you have shown some serious information on how to check all the different bits so well done John:2tsup::2tsup:

Not dure that it will increase sales for any one though:D:no:

[GPW]

I believe the GPW chuck is marketed in the US under the name Barracuda 2.

Although the two chucks appear similar, The GPW has had a lot more development and upgraded componets which are exclusive to the GPW.

[rsser]

Just ordered a GPW Gen 3 chuck (http://gpwoodturning.sitesuitestores.com/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107136782&product_id=1107445143) and will report how it goes.

A 4" job that'll take VM 90/100 jaws as well as T/tool. The VM jaws have to be drilled out a mm.

$150.

There's a deluxe version with multiple jaws too.

Added: and a 110 mm version (http://gpwoodturning.sitesuitestores.com/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107136782&product_id=1107466502).

[hughie]

Ern, Be looking forward to your comments on it. Shame nobody makes a big chuck ie 150mm old SN2 I have three of them and they are my major work horses. Perhaps they did not sell well, who knows.

[rsser]

Well there's still the VM 150. Nice chuck but not nice price. (Website says it'll take VM100 as well as 140 jaws which is a departure for the firm).

Gary Pye still has some Titan companion chucks in stock - more affordable but of course only 5". Interestingly the T/tool 2008 catalogue said this chuck was under 'redesign' so maybe there's a replacement on the way.

[rsser]

Correction: the VM website was wrong. The 150 does not take VM 100 jaws.

[kdm]

I dropped in to GPW yesterday for a couple of things and had a look at the new chucks while I was there. They look really good. I'd certainly consider one if I were buying a new chuck.

[rsser]

Yep, seem well made. No burrs. Full backing plate with two rows of indexing holes. Jaw numbers stamped on chuck face. Proper tightening direction. Only dislike on first look is the square hole gear drive so you have to have two tools hanging around the lathe.

[Grumpy John]

...........................
Only dislike on first look is the square hole gear drive so you have to have two tools hanging around the lathe.

I'd be willing to take your old Vicmark chucks off your hands Ern, for a small fee of course :rolleyes: :D.

[hughie]

No burrs. Full backing plate with two rows of indexing holes. Jaw numbers stamped on chuck face. Proper tightening direction. Only dislike on first look is the square hole gear drive so you have to have two tools hanging around the lathe.
[/QUOTE]

Sounds good, square hole two tools PITA. But clockwise tightening :2tsup: now thats something I can appreciate.

[rsser]

More on the GPW 110 chuck here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?p=1006270#post1006270)

GJ, no worries. The fee will be $300 plus postage. I'll let you know my account details :D

[NeilS]

Shame nobody makes a big chuck ie 150mm old SN2 I have three of them and they are my major work horses.

Agreed, Hughie. The SN Deluxe is still my favourite chuck for the $s.

The Titan went off at a tangent and only made sense if used with its dedicated powergrip jaws.

The big Vicmarc looks good (and will take some seriously large jaws) but, as Ern said, for a serious price.

Neil