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graemet
7th August 2009, 11:13 PM
At the Sydney WWW show, I saw the stand with the Solomon Islands "Ebony", bought some to play with, and stuck it in the lathe. I noticed the several other people bought some to try.
What are your experiences?
I had a hefty (90mm square) blank that I intended to make into a lidded box. I roughed it down to a cylinder and left it on the lathe, meaning to continue the next day. A domestic crisis developed which meant that it was 2 days before I came back, to be greeted by two enormous splits, right through the blank, which meant a write-off. Given the minute shrinkage claimed in the printed handout, I was not impressed with this result. Was I just unlucky, or have others had a similar experience?:~
Cheers
Graeme

Sawdust Maker
7th August 2009, 11:28 PM
Not worthless could send it to me for pen blanks
or even keep it and use for finials

GoGuppy
8th August 2009, 06:21 PM
Hi

I got my 45 x 45mm x 400mmish solomons ebony at the sydney ww show and and have started to turn a handle for my new Thompson 3/4 U-gouge. It was a bit of an experience, boy is that stuff hard..:o.

My tools were just a bit less sharp than optimal when I started, and trying to rough the square blank down with my skew chisel would just bite bits out of it...bits of ebony flying everywhere....good that I was wearing my full face shield..:2tsup:

Mmmmmm...try the roughing gouge. Slightly better, but not much.

OK, sharpened the skew and the roughing gouge to razor sharp and the skew was then a bit better, but still a bit risky. So finished off shaping to round with the roughing gouge which went better. Still the occasional bit of ebony flying off!!

Shaped the handle to a form that suited me with a sharp 1/2" gouge and the yet still handle-less Thompson 3/8" detail gouge which a went reasonable well, but slow..

I was not happy with the finish off the tool, so used a couple of scrapers. Then ended with the static sander going through all the grades to about 250 I think, which after oiling and waxing did give it a nice finish.

I still have to find/make/buy a ferule, fit it and drill a massive 3/4" hole to fit the gouge...and need to make a steady for this job, which will be my next adventure....

All in all, I found the solomons ebony to be a difficult wood to work with (ie hard and brittle, and very heavy), but with perserverence does finish up nicely. :2tsup:
Cheers

rsser
8th August 2009, 07:17 PM
Pic would be good; a rolls royce handle it must be!

I find it easier to drill the hole for the shank first up. You can be sure it's centred then.

kdm
8th August 2009, 07:43 PM
I bought some small pieces at the Brisbane WWW and have made a couple of pens without any splitting problems. The pieces I bought were so small though that I think they would probably have been fairly dry.

GoGuppy
8th August 2009, 08:35 PM
Pic would be good; a rolls royce handle it must be!

I find it easier to drill the hole for the shank first up. You can be sure it's centred then.

Yes, I normally drill the hole first also, but did not have a suitble bit at the time....and was keen to get started turning the ebony. I'll post a photo once I've finished the handle.

It does look a bit like a rolls royce handle, but the wood only cost me nine bucks, should have bought a few blanks.:doh:

Cheers

GoGuppy
8th August 2009, 10:19 PM
Pic would be good; a rolls royce handle it must be!


Oh well, thanks for encouraging me....:wink:... just went back into me shed and more or less finished it off. The 3/4" hole was done with a spade bit in a handheld drill, went reasonably well. I haven't epoxied it in yet as I need to finish the ferule yet. After turning the ebony has lightened up slightly, but accordingto the guy I bought the blank from it should darken again over time.:U
Cheers

graemet
8th August 2009, 11:15 PM
OK, I guess that even the bits will be useful. I didn't have any trouble with the roughing down, it cut quite well and finished well off the tool, probably because it was so wet. I'll leave it longer to dry out next time. There will be a next time because I quite like the look of the stuff. It was a bit brown rather than black when first cut, but it's darkened up since.
Cheers
Graeme

scorpio_oz
9th August 2009, 12:01 AM
Hi Graeme,

I've recently bought some Solomon Ebony, haven't turned any yet, so I can't speak on how it is from experience. Have had some sliced up and sanded to thickness for box making, it is stickered and clamped for drying at the moment but it looks fantastic.

One piece of advice that the guy who sells it gave me on turning a block, because I bought 100x100x100mm cube to turn into a bowl or box.

His advice was make sure you turn it to completion, inside and out on the same day otherwise, as its such a dense timber, even though it is quite dry, it will still need to adjust and if you only turn the outside without turning the inside, it'll be more prone to cracking. He was quite certain if you turn the inside and outside, then its more likely to survive. If you don't, then there was a high chance of it becoming key ring blanks.

As I said, I've never worked with this timber before, and as I'm really new to turning, I can only go on the advice he has given me.

Thought I might pass it on, it might help others.

-Gavin

graemet
9th August 2009, 09:37 PM
Thanks Gavin, I had come to that conclusion myself. I'll give it another go soon - have to get some more ebony first.
Cheers
Graeme

bowl-basher
10th August 2009, 10:14 PM
If you want it to go real dark (black) after finishing but before any seal,oil or polish is applied put it in a box wit a rag soaked in amonia and leave it for a few days My tools are still recovering from attacking a bit from the SWWW I think the next bit might get turned on the metal lathe..:D:D......

Gunnaduit
10th August 2009, 10:52 PM
Hate to tell you guys, but Solomon Islands ebony, aka Diospros insularis, is listed by CITES as a species recorded as globally threatened as a result of population decline
through exploitation.

When the islanders cut it, usually for tourist carvings, they don't replant it. Poor buggers aren't even value-adding by carving it now, it seems.

Why I know, I lived there for years and I'm an ethnobotanist (I study plants used by indigenous people).

FRB Design
10th August 2009, 11:00 PM
Hate to tell you guys, but Solomon Islands ebony, aka Diospyros insularis, is listed by CITES as a species recorded as globally threatened as a result of population decline
through exploitation.

When the islanders cut it, usually for tourist carvings, they don't replant it. Poor buggers aren't even value-adding by carving it now, it seems.

Why I know, I lived there for years and I'm an ethnobotanist (I study plants used by indigenous people).


Seems like there over here exploiting it for money that wont go back to the islanders as well!:no:

Gunnaduit
10th August 2009, 11:06 PM
Nice stuff, but anyone who's bought it probably has a tiny little voice somewhere inside saying its too good to be totally hunky dory.

ElizaLeahy
11th August 2009, 08:55 PM
The people who sell it here in Australia are from the Soloman Islands.

It definately cracks in change of humidity, and it's suggested that you leave it inside, even wrap it in a towel, if you aren't going to turn it straight away.

GoGuppy
11th August 2009, 09:23 PM
Hate to tell you guys, but Solomon Islands ebony, aka Diospros insularis, is listed by CITES as a species recorded as globally threatened as a result of population decline
through exploitation.

When the islanders cut it, usually for tourist carvings, they don't replant it. Poor buggers aren't even value-adding by carving it now, it seems.

Why I know, I lived there for years and I'm an ethnobotanist (I study plants used by indigenous people).

Hey Gunnaduit, the species is actually Xanthostemon melanoxylon Myrtacea, locally known as Tubi. Some info is available on http://www.sitcoaustralia.com.au/our_aim.php

Having worked on several aussie aid projects in the Solomons on many occasions, including visiting Honiara one week after the aussie troops went in to end the period of chaos and unrest, I have seen and in fact bought a few of the carvings you mentioned, thereby contributng to their economy and helping them to maintain their local traditions and customs. The people at Sitco do not deny that much of the timber is unsustainably harvested in the Solomons, but they claim to only harvest in a manner that benefits traditional small landholders.:2tsup:
Cheers

Gunnaduit
11th August 2009, 11:33 PM
Xanthostemon melanoxylon - the one only found in a few areas in Gao and SE Choiseul - oh well that's only on the protected species list, so that should be ok then.

SitCo Australia
15th August 2009, 02:38 PM
Hi Graeme
Jusr give me a quick call on 07 3392 7111 if you want more, as I post it all over the world. let me know the size you require and I can give you further tips about the timber, as well as ways of speeding up the oxidising and minimising the cracks as you've already worked out. other than that if you want you can send me an email on sitco australia's website.

Cheers:2tsup:
Brian


Thanks Gavin, I had come to that conclusion myself. I'll give it another go soon - have to get some more ebony first.
Cheers
Graeme

SitCo Australia
15th August 2009, 03:21 PM
This species' botanical name is "Xanthostemon Melanoxylon"
It grows on my mothers land (Ysabel Province) and we have been in discussion over the last 12 months with FSC Australia to find ways of getting certification to prove that our harvesting methods are sustainable and be accepted internationaly.

This is not a typical tree which you can replant because it doesn't regenerate by seedling or flowering. it reproduces after a fire has been through and when the mother tree dies, sucklings start shooting up all around the mother tree (some call these suckers) it only regrows after a fire has been through. Fire starts from lightning as the soil it grows on has high levels of minerals which attracts the lightning. only few shrubs and grass grows in the area. The areas in which these trees grow is uninhabitable because of the high mineral content in the soils.

Unfortunately hand carvings are not a worlwide maketable product on a scale that would benefit everyone. Sales from this timber has dramaticaly lifted the quality of life for local landowners and their families. Children are obtaining a better education because school fees can now be met.

The tree is an endemic species (meaning very rare), and NOT an endangered species there for it is not listed on the CITES.

What you have stated Diospros insularis maybe true, that I am unsure of, so I will not comment, as this species does not grow on my mother's home Island

This species I am dealing with, I call it Solomon Queen Ebony (because it is comparible to african Ebony or as others have put it back home "mother of all ebonies") and often with the woodwind manufacturers around world I call it "Pacific Blackwood" because of comparible properties with the mpingo/ African Blackwood.

It never fails to amaze me how some people are willing to post comments on forums like this without doing their proper research. Please have a read through our website on www.sitcoaustralia.com.au (http://www.sitcoaustralia.com.au) :U

What parts of the Solomons have you been to (apart from Honiara)?

Cheers:2tsup:
Brian



Hate to tell you guys, but Solomon Islands ebony, aka Diospros insularis, is listed by CITES as a species recorded as globally threatened as a result of population decline
through exploitation.

When the islanders cut it, usually for tourist carvings, they don't replant it. Poor buggers aren't even value-adding by carving it now, it seems.

Why I know, I lived there for years and I'm an ethnobotanist (I study plants used by indigenous people).

SitCo Australia
15th August 2009, 03:27 PM
Bugotu and San Jorge in Ysabel
Siruka Bay and Suri in Choisel


Xanthostemon melanoxylon - the one only found in a few areas in Gao and SE Choiseul - oh well that's only on the protected species list, so that should be ok then.

kdm
15th August 2009, 07:00 PM
Brian,

I for one - can only speak for myself - appreciate your comments. I have never been to the Solomon Islands but I have travelled extensively elsewhere and believe that sensible harvesting of limited resources in a way that benefits local communities is the best that we can hope for in the real world.

GoGuppy
15th August 2009, 10:15 PM
Brian, good luck and all the best with your and your family's venture.
Will the tree grow from cuttings taken from the sucklings?
Cheers

brendan stemp
16th August 2009, 02:08 PM
I have used it for a number of projects and quite like it. Not good for deep hollowing but it can be done but excellent for spindle work. As for the cracks, they dont worry me. Fill them with sawdust and ca glue and they will look like part of the timber's natural figure. Below is one of the first pieces I made from the wood which by the time I got to had checked quite a lot.

SitCo Australia
16th August 2009, 05:20 PM
Hi
majority of the trees we have harvested are the very old trees and have suckers all around them (from 5cm dia to 2.5meters in dia). It is very hard to work out which ones the suckers come from as the forest of tubi (xanthostemon Melanoxylon) is extremely thick and will always have about 5-8 dead ones in between.

I am uncertain whether a young sucker will come out as a result of cutting down a live one. Locals believe it does, but Iam am unsure. only time will tell as we have only been harvesting this species over the last 2 yrs,

We are now harvesting only the dead trees, but Jees!!!!! thats now bloody hard to cut. We are doing this mainly because the dead ones are more dryer and also to control the cracking when shifting timbers from outer islands to the capital. When we cut our very first container, the timber looked beautiful, I started to freak out why it started to crack when I got to Honiara with them (This was due to the fact that the Hulls of the ship was very dry and it was drying the timbers too quickly and started to crack plus no sealers was put on the timber to ease the drying), by the time I opened the container here in Brisbane I WAS HORRIFIED to learn the every single piece had cracked on the surface hahaha (due to containers up and down of tempretures whilst in transit) I then had to resize everything to get the cracks out and lost about 50-60% of our stock. By the time I went back for our second container, I was more prepared with the knowledge I had and learnt of why the crackings had accured and how I would over come it. (also thanks very much for info that was given to me by Terry McGee: an Irish flute maker NSW & Gerard: Gillet guitars NSW of experiences they had with gidgee). second time round we lost about 25-30% because I was late in passing info back. We're now on our third and is improving dramaticaly. we now have to sort out the shatters or internal cracks from the trees landing on the ground. We are now waiting for big rains to come first to soften the ground before dropping the trees (dead ones)

We are monitoring and recording everything we do to improve our techniques. Locals love being directly involved in 1. harvesting methods 2. improving our safety mesaure 3. have a say in the operations and 4. we are there for the long haul and not just to make a quick buck. Chinese, Taiwanese, Koreans, Japanese and Even some NewZealanders have been there trying to extract it out of the Solomons, I am very lucky to have my suppliers very loyal to us as they know that they wll benefit greatly by sticking with someone who will will stick by them and by being their first plus a huge bonus of being related

I have gathered info on the web, as well as from locals. there really isn't much known about this species. As I have progressed I keep learing more and more along side with the locals and cutters. Every other tree you fell especially Merbau/Kwila, a red liquid flows out of the tree from where it has been cut. It is an awful and saddening sight, as it looks very much like its bleeding to death. The locals and cutters laugh at me because of my reaction to it!! However with the xanthostemon Melanoxylon; There is absolutely no fluid comming out from a live tree when it is dropped. Right at the bottom where the core is you can feel little moist there. I suspect because the tree is mostly around 30-40meters in height. It absorbs moisture through its bark, as the forest is exteremely humid. There is no way because of its density I believe water can travel up the trunk, but again I could be wrong

I have been doing presentations on all the woodworing clubs up here (QLD) about this species, and often they ask me to go in for 1/2 hr. which always turn to 1 & half to 2hrs. I enjoy this the most as I like telling people about the islands, its people and how we've come about and of course the species.

Cheers:2tsup:
Brian


Brian, good luck and all the best with your and your family's venture.
Will the tree grow from cuttings taken from the sucklings?
Cheers

GoGuppy
16th August 2009, 08:32 PM
I have used it for a number of projects and quite like it. Below is one of the first pieces I made from the wood which by the time I got to had checked quite a lot.

Hi Brendan
That is one absolutely gorgeous bowl :2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:
Cheers

GoGuppy
16th August 2009, 08:34 PM
Hi Brian
Thanks for sharing the above with us, good to see the local community involvement.
Let us know if you ever do any presentations in Sydney!!
Cheers