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View Full Version : Advice on which size bowl gouge.



scorpio_oz
26th August 2009, 10:50 PM
Hi,

I am considering what size bowl gouge to buy.

My current set of tools is a midi set, with a 1/4" bowl gouge. This is a little limiting, not because of its width but because of its length. Length of the tool part is about 6 inches, so doesn't give me much depth to work.

I was looking at getting some full size tools that will allow me to start doing bowls, boxes etc.

I was looking at either a 3/8" bowl gouge( 3/8" flute made from 1/2" stock) or a 1/2" bowl gouge( 1/2" flute made from 5/8" stock).

I have a midi lathe which is limited to 300mm diameter over bed.

Open to advice from more experienced turners, if you had to chose one of these, which size would it be?

Thanks

-Gavin

tea lady
27th August 2009, 12:01 AM
I get most use out of the 3/8 inch stock one. The bigger one only comes out doing platters bigger than 250mm diam. :shrug:And maybe deep bowls where more ovehang means you need more thickness in the tool.

issatree
27th August 2009, 01:15 AM
Hi,
I was going to say, "ask Hughie", as he knows about these Hamlets 2060's
Could be expensive, but very good, apparently.
I may wait until the T&WWWShow in Melb. in Oct. & have a look at them there.
Other than that, I would look at a P&N 10mm.or 14mm.Unhandled Bowl Gouge.
Carroll's @ cws have all you will ever want.
Regards,
issatree.
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Texian
27th August 2009, 01:25 AM
You might consider a 1/2" (1/2" bar stock) Thompson V gouge. The 5/8" is a bit large for some things.

Paul39
27th August 2009, 04:03 AM
I find that the thicker and heavier the tool, the less vibration, longer reach into a bowl, less reaction to bumping from out of round timber.

My biggest bowl gouge is a 1/2 inch - 13mm, (5/8 - 16mm actual) Crown. I use it down to about 4 inch - 100mm bowls. That is my only bowl gouge, so I use spindle gouges on smaller things which works fine with little overhang.

I have two big home made tools, 13mm and 18mm square, ground like the front of 1930s streamlined locomotives that I use as scrapers & shear scrapers.

They are around 6 - 700mm long overall with 50mm thick handles, nice for hogging out the inside of a bowl, or freshly sharpened, slicing off just a tiny bit to clean up rough areas.

Even on smaller things, I find I use the biggest tool I can get into where I am cutting.

munruben
27th August 2009, 07:33 AM
I only have one bowl gouge and thats 3/8" Seems to do all I want but then again I am far from being an expert on the subject and have only turned a couple of bowls.

robbiebgraham
27th August 2009, 12:08 PM
I would suggest getting a 12mm (1/2") stock for bowls that size, 10mm (3/8") is a little small in my view. I use a 12mm or a 16mm for most of my work.
Robbie

Calm
27th August 2009, 12:09 PM
IMHO i think if you have one make it a 3/8 inch (out of 1/2 inch stock)

It is slower when roughing out but you can do the whole job with it.

If you only have a 1/2 inch (5/8 stock) then you will find limitations on smaller bowls and when finishing off.

Cheers

PAH1
27th August 2009, 01:42 PM
I would avoid the 2060 stuff if at all possible. It is harder and wears longer, no question, however it is also harder to sharpen properly. I know a couple of "famous" turners that use it, however they only do so because they are given it and would not pay the extra money for it.

I mostly use the 1/2" version (stock width) myself, the larger one only comes out when there is an issue with chatter on certain timbers. I rough out with a 1/2" spindle gouge and it is worth its weight in pig manure.

Texian
27th August 2009, 02:05 PM
Not to deflect this thread, but can not helping asking PAH1 how is 2060 (or any steel) harder to sharpen than any other? Granted if you are grinding a different shape that is another question. But sharpening is just a couple of light passes.

Broda
27th August 2009, 05:03 PM
I use a P&N 10mm and 16mm bowl gouge for all of my work
the 16 is really great for making short work of big bowls, but the 10 is also neccesary for smaller bowls or where you cant get into with the 16.
I also use slightly different grinds on mine, the 10's bevel is a little bit steeper to allow you to get up into the rim of bowls.
I also find the 10 is more easy to controll when shaping.

P&N I'v found to be really good; theyre aussie, they stay sharp for big long time and the black finish makes the gouge look tough

hope this helps

KenW
27th August 2009, 07:32 PM
I would suggest getting a 12mm (1/2") stock for bowls that size, 10mm (3/8") is a little small in my view. I use a 12mm or a 16mm for most of my work.
Robbie
I agree with Robbie on this one.
I use a 12mm P&N for most of my bowl work.

Jim Carroll
27th August 2009, 08:16 PM
:whs:

eisbaer
27th August 2009, 09:00 PM
i use a 3/8 but it's a pain to turn large bowls with. My lathe can only do up to a 12inch bowl but anything that big takes a while to hog out. I'm looking at a 1/2 inch v profile bowl gouge next for quicker stock removal. I've used one before and it was fantastic.

issatree
27th August 2009, 11:53 PM
Hi all,
I have to agree about P&N 10mm B/gouge. I'm on my 3rd. as I not only use it for very few small bowls, but also for all my Finger Spinning Tops, & what ever else.
So they are not just great for Bowls, but anything you can think of.
I have a 12mm. as well, but it doesn't get used as much, still a useful tool.

Hughie suggested the 2060, & I thought they may be the go, & that is why I suggested them.
I'm still going to have a look at one at Melb. Show.
Whether I buy or not may depend on the price.
Regards,
issatree.
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hughie
28th August 2009, 01:07 AM
I would avoid the 2060 stuff if at all possible. It is harder and wears longer, no question, however it is also harder to sharpen properly.



Hmm dunno I find it 2060 no more difficult than any other of my tools to sharpen. Because it wears longer and retains the edge I find I make less trips to the grinder and grind less of my gouge away. So it saves me time and money.

If its hard to sharpen maybe the grinding wheel needs a dressing or perhaps a different grade :?

robbiebgraham
28th August 2009, 07:12 AM
The thing is, you will need more than one bowl gouge. I have 8mm, 10mm, 12mm and 16mm also I have two of each with different grinds on them. If you are doing small turnings to medium you will need a range because in most cases one chisel wont do the job. Trying to make one chisel do all the work will come very frustrating.:C
If you use a chisel that is too small for the job the thing will vibrate because you have too much overhang for the diameter of the chisel and wont cut properly. I would still go for a 12mm Stock for medium work.

hughie
28th August 2009, 11:31 AM
The thing is, you will need more than one bowl gouge. I have 8mm, 10mm, 12mm and 16mm also I have two of each with different grinds on them. If you are doing small turnings to medium you will need a range because in most cases one chisel wont do the gob. Trying to make one chisel do all the work will come very frustrating.:C
I
Hmm I seemto recall Richard Raffan uses 3/8 or 1/2" and two of each with different grinds for very much the same reasons as out lined here.

At the end of the day I dont think there is a definitive answer. I prefer this and somebody prefers that, theres general advice to give direction and the rest is up to personal choice plus ability etc

NeilS
28th August 2009, 12:18 PM
I was looking at either a 3/8" bowl gouge( 3/8" flute made from 1/2" stock) or a 1/2" bowl gouge( 1/2" flute made from 5/8" stock).

I have a midi lathe which is limited to 300mm diameter over bed.



If you can only buy one more gouge at this stage and you won't be turning above 300mm diam bowls, then go with 3/8" flute/1/2" stock.

If, and when, you upgrade your lathe to turn beyond 300mm diam bowls add a 1/2" flute/5/8" stock gouge to your shopping list.

artme
29th August 2009, 02:22 AM
For what it's worth Scorpio the P&N gouges are ttremendous value for money, They are made from great quality steel and have a really good shaped flute.

Henry Taylor also makes great gouges. I have a 6mm and a 10mm HT gouge and find them excellent.

Mike Wingate
29th August 2009, 03:23 AM
I have a number of Henry Taylor and Sorby HSS gouges. A variety of grinds gets you into lots of shapes. The 3/8 and 5/8 are my most used.

Paul39
29th August 2009, 06:14 AM
The thing is, you will need more than one bowl gouge. I have 8mm, 10mm, 12mm and 16mm also I have two of each with different grinds on them.

The late Bob Stocksdale is reputed to have made over 10,000 bowls using a bowl gouge and a scraper.

Google his name, he did nice work.

Calm
29th August 2009, 09:01 AM
If you can only buy one more gouge at this stage and you won't be turning above 300mm diam bowls, then go with 3/8" flute/1/2" stock.

If, and when, you upgrade your lathe to turn beyond 300mm diam bowls add a 1/2" flute/5/8" stock gouge to your shopping list.

NeilS have a greenie - a simple answer and to the point of the OP.

Cheers

robbiebgraham
29th August 2009, 09:18 AM
The late Bob Stocksdale is reputed to have made over 10,000 bowls using a bowl gouge and a scraper.

Google his name, he did nice work.
Yep, granted but if you have a 16mm gouge and you are doing a very small bowl it would be very difficult to say the least.
When I was doing production work I used one 16mm gouge for nearly all of spindle and bowl work and found that's all I needed and it worked for me. I used it for roughing and finishing. I did however have 6mm and 8mm for small spindle work.
We will all have different views on this one particularly because we have been shown one way or seen it in books and videos.
Robbie

Sawdust Maker
29th August 2009, 09:28 AM
If you can only buy one more gouge at this stage and you won't be turning above 300mm diam bowls, then go with 3/8" flute/1/2" stock.

If, and when, you upgrade your lathe to turn beyond 300mm diam bowls add a 1/2" flute/5/8" stock gouge to your shopping list.

When I was looking for another bowl gouge a little while back - Vermec (http://www.vermec.com/index.html)(up your way) seemed to have the best unhandled prices for P&N - look in their general catalogue (don't look at anything else :D)

PAH1
31st August 2009, 05:28 PM
Hmm dunno I find it 2060 no more difficult than any other of my tools to sharpen. Because it wears longer and retains the edge I find I make less trips to the grinder and grind less of my gouge away. So it saves me time and money.

If its hard to sharpen maybe the grinding wheel needs a dressing or perhaps a different grade :?

Interesting, I have a 2060 skew and although it is hard wearing-I reach for others when I need sharp. It can be sharpened well, just not with the traditional white wheel. The only thing that I have found to do it really well was a tormek. Mike Mahoney who was one of the people involved in the development of the tools uses it for roughing only-the "wood basher". For finishing cuts he uses m2 HSS. I love my big 2060 scraper and have no issues with it at all, however I find that the skew is not as good as the cheaper McJing equivalent and nowhere near the P&N.

To my mind it is not worth the additional money that you pay to get it. It is so much more expensive.

rsser
2nd September 2009, 08:16 AM
The 'go to' bowl gouge in my kit is a 3/8 Henry Taylor Superflute (flute size).

It has a sweet parabolic flute shape so you can hog out on the wings and also take fine finishing cuts around the tip. Steel quality is excellent.

If you were aiming to do big work then the 1/2 would be better.

Mike Wingate
3rd September 2009, 05:15 AM
I grind mine with smooth flowing ground away edges on my Tormek with the gouge jig. Easy. No corners and twice the length of cutting edge.

bobsreturn2003
5th September 2009, 05:53 PM
found the 2060 and thompson gouges good value and certainly hold an edge , and a very sharp one as well :2tsup:cheers Bob

hughie
5th September 2009, 10:04 PM
Interesting, I have a 2060 skew and although it is hard wearing-I reach for others when I need sharp. It can be sharpened well, just not with the traditional white wheel. The only thing that I have found to do it really well was a tormek. Mike Mahoney who was one of the people involved in the development of the tools uses it for roughing only-the "wood basher". For finishing cuts he uses m2 HSS. I love my big 2060 scraper and have no issues with it at all, however I find that the skew is not as good as the cheaper McJing equivalent and nowhere near the P&N.


PAH1
My grinder has a fine wheel, looks like 120grit and its bit slow on 2060. But it does produce a fine edge. But then I often use my home made Carbon steel 3/8 gouge for finishing. Its made from silver steel or drill steel as its called in the USA. The edge that can be produced is very fine. So much so I looking at making couple more smaller gouges for finial work.

Ern, I have yet to get one of the Taylors its on the shopping list.