HM-45 mill Drill

[eskimo]

Hi Guys
Thinking of getting a mill
For the amount of and type of work I contemplate doing I think a Turret style mill would be an overkill, but....

as I dont want chattering, inaccuracies in cutting etc etc what is the opinion of those who have had experience with the dovetailed style mill head? eg HM45

also, has any one imported from Grizzly in the states? what was freight costs?

[Dave J]

Importing just one from grizzly would cost you twice as much as buying one here. The prices are coming down at Hare and Forbes so I would say others will follow. I was going to buy a HM45, then I got some extra money and bought a 52, but I have plenty of room. From what I have seen when I had a look at it and heard on the internet I don''t think you will be disapointed. There a decent large size bench top mill weighing around 350kg, so they are rigid enough for most jobs. I have a friend who is a 57 yr old machinist and has a round column mill and is happy with it, the dovetail column makes it even better.
If you were to go to the trouble and expense to import a bench top mill you should go for the IH mill a much bigger stronger machine. I know they export worldwide if you have the $.
Dave

[pipeclay]

Is there any particular reason why you are going for the 45 rather than the 35.
I understand that if you are doing certain milling operations it would be advantagous to be able to raise the head with only limited lateral movement if any.
If you would be doing your height changes with the use of the quill it would not matter.
One con for the 45 in my opinion would be not being able to swivell the head,there are times when the ability to swivell the head is an assett.

[the fabricator]

at school we have either a 45 or 35, im not sure, it has a swivel head. whichever one this is, get it. you wont regret it. it is a solid machine and is very accurate in the right hands. i love getting any excuse to use it because it is a breeze to use, especially on cast iron!
changing cutters is quick and painless and a range of cutters can be used.
you may find during a deep cut that the floor can vibrate, but consistent medium cuts will work fine on this mill with cutting fluid

just my 2c

[steran50]

HI,
I own a Standaco Machinery 'TOPTECH' DM-45 Mill Drill. I am very Happy with it. I have found it to quite an accurate machine. I have not used it enough though to give You a thorough rundown though. The one fault I have with it is the stand is to low for Me. I am 6' 31/2" tall, I am going to raise the base of the stand by 100mm which I think should be enough. The DM-45 is basically the same as the HM-45 with only Minor Differences. One good thing about the DM-45 is that it does have a big Worktable 800mm x 240mm, this why I chose it instead of the HM-45.
If you were going to be moving the Work Head a lot then I strongly reccomend the HM-45 or DM-45 over the HM-35. The way I use My DM-45 is I lower the Work Head as close to the Work Piece as Possible. Then I use the Quill only for the last little bit. This is basically the same way a Turret Mill is supposed to be used 'YOU RAISE THE KNEE, YOU DON'T MOVE THE QUILL' ( I wonder how many People are going to comment about that last bit. I seen it on a Video then I asked a Qualified Fitter and Turner about it - Its Correct.) I am going to Buy a Digital Scale at some stage for the Dovetail Column as it does'nt have any Scale or Ruler on it.
What the 'the fabricator' said about changing Cutters is right. I bought an ER32 Collet Chuck and a full set of Collets for Mine. Make sure the Collet Chuck You get has Spanner Flats on it. So You can hold the actual Chuck while You undo or tighten its Collet Nut. I found this essential on the DM-45 as it does not have a Spindle Lock,I would be suprised if the HM-45 or any Mill Drill for that matter had a Spindle Lock. Both the DM-45 and the HM-45 have a Quill Locks though.
All The Best:) steran50 Stewart

[the fabricator]

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What the 'the fabricator' said
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haha i feel so silly for making that my name when i post in all the machining threads

[new_guy90]

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What the 'the fabricator' said
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haha i feel so silly for making that my name when i post in all the machining threads

then put your name at the bottom i have been around here to long to be called the new guy now :p

if it was me i would go for the HM-45 yeah the head doesnt move every which way and that but the dove tail column makes it so much more accurate and ridged. if you want the machine to be even more ridged them upgrade your stand a heavier stand will make all the difference to any machine oh and a guy in the US has 2 of them and has converted 1 to CNC its very cool. he used a epoxy granite to fill in the casting and the column and that made it very very heavey good idea. oh and on accuracy with your machine you could have the most wiz bang fancy expencive mill ever made but if you dont have the skills then it will all come out as ####, make sure you have good mesuring equipment, tooling, understand the workings of your machine and its limitations if you know all that then you still may make crap but way less of it :D

good luck with what ever you decide to buy

Fabricator google "CNC cook book " and DONT come back sprouting "im going to make a CNC!!!!"

[Gavin Newman]

The value of the HM-45 may depend on how much tooling you have and how much you intend to extend the mill (given that we are never satisfied with what we have).

The HM-45 is around $2,200. A stand to suit is $300. You can build your own (as I would) but for the sake of the argument let's assume that the materials run to near the same amount.

So now your HM-45 sitting on the floor is $2,500. If you don't have a vice you'll end up needing one of those ($300+), you'll need collets as well ($?? - depends on type and quality).

Later down the track you may want a machine light (around $150) so you can see what you are doing and after spending innumerable hours frantically winding the feed handles you might hanker for a power feed as well ($632 for the unit + $130 for the power transformer).

So now you have you mill with an MT3 taper (and the issues that entails) and you've spent well over $3,000, more likely $4,000.

The HM-50 which is a lot more rigid, has greater capacity, has a better spindle taper type and comes with all the above plus coolant systems is $3,900.

It's food for thought if nothing else.

[Dave J]

Patrick
They are Industrial Hobbies mills on his site, they have a larger work table,travels,column than the HM-45. They are also better quality with ground ways etc.
I have been watching Bob's progess over the years on those mills
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCMillCNCHome.html
His blog is also an interesting read, and is not just about CNC.
http://www.cnccookbook.com/index.htm
Gavin
Thats what I started looking at years ago when I was buying a mill. I also added everything up the way you have for the HM45 compared to the HM50 then thought for an extra $500 I could have the a horizontal option of the HM52 and thats what I bought.
Eskimo
If you are going to buy most or all of those options listed above for the HM45 I think the HM50 is the way to go.It dosn't take up much more room it's just heavier at around 900kg's.
Dave

[steran50]

HI,
Gavin Newman does have some Good Points. My own original choice was the HM-50, but when the Financial Crisis hit us all. I decided to wait a while, then I decided to Buy a Mill Drill. I chose to Buy the DM-45 of Standaco Machinery, because of the Larger Table 800mm x 240mm, Stand was Included and the Price was $2,150.00 including GST. The DM-45 is $2,200.00 Including GST at Present.
As for the Collets on the HM-50 Michael at Hare and Forbes in Melbourne told me that the Collets and Chuck that come with the HM-50 are just thrown in by the Manufacturer. Once a Collet is damaged there is no replacement for it, they are not ER-32 or the like.
If You shop around ie Ebay, Machines4u, Factory Hub etc - You will find things cheaper. For example Paramount Browns Pty Ltd sell the same Power Feed as Hare and Forbes including the Transformer for $599 plus GST or $658.90 including GST. You can make your own Coolant Pump I did, though I have'nt really used it yet. I got a $10.00 Plastic Basin from GO LO and a $50.00 Replacement Pump for a Parts Washer. My Brother made me an Aluminium Lid for it for nothing. Plus a few other bits and pieces.
You don't have to use a Machine Light, though it is safer. You can use an ordinary Light. The Manufacturers have to Fit Low Voltage Lights not standard Lights if they are Supplying a Light to Comply with Safety Standards.
A Vice should'nt Cost You that Much as Gavin said, though You can spend that or more on an Angle Lock one. I just a Bought 125mm (5") Vertex Vice Of Minitech Model VK-5 for $242.00 plus $50.05 Postage and Insurance to Mallacoota, 3892, Victoria. I had previously been using a Vice that I bought of Titan Machinery on Ebay. The Vice did not end up being very Good. I found that every time I clamped the Workpiece it caused it to lift clear of the Parallels. I am going to fix it the best I can and use it as a big Drill Press Vice. i have not used My New Vice Yet so I can't say whether it Good or Bad.
The Toptech DM-45 (Standaco) comes in two different Spindle Tapers R8 and MT4. I chose R8. I think I made the right choice in the DM-45 over the HM-45 as I found I have not used it any near what I though I would.
Thats all I got to Say. I did'nt come on here Talk You into a Mill Drill or even a Make of Machine. Just offering My thoughts and Information. The bottom line is it is Your choice as its Your Money. I wish You the best of Luck with whatever Your decision might be.
All The Best:) steran50 Stewart

[the fabricator]

Fabricator google "CNC cook book " and DONT come back sprouting "im going to make a CNC!!!!"
CNC Cookbook, pff i go to that site so much it should be my homepage :rolleyes:. Although i don't know why i put myself through the agony of looking at their shops compared to my one bench with 200mm X 1000mm of workspace and a cupboard.:-

I can see where CNC must be used, but for the parts that us average punters make, CNC takes the fun out of the job!

At school the other day i went over to confirm the mill/drill is a HM-45. But good luck with your choice, hopefully you get what you want:2tsup:

[Dave J]

Talking of powerfeeds,if anybody is after one they are cheaper from the US. I bought 2 from the US through Ebay for $620 delivered they are 110v just like what is sold over here.There are 4 different one's that they sell.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/135-Lbs-Power-Table-Feed-Bridgeport-Milling-Machine-X_W0QQitemZ390094110251QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Tool_Work_Holding?hash=item5ad36bbe2b&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/150-Lbs-Power-Table-Feed-Bridgeport-Milling-Machine-X_W0QQitemZ370260092199QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Tool_Work_Holding?hash=item563538a527&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262

[/URL]
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/150-Lbs-Power-Table-Feed-Bridgeport-Milling-Machine-Y_W0QQitemZ390095369483QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Tool_Work_Holding?hash=item5ad37ef50b&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262 (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/150-Lbs-Power-Table-Feed-Bridgeport-Milling-Machine-Z_W0QQitemZ390094110283QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Tool_Work_Holding?hash=item5ad36bbe4b&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262)

[URL]http://cgi.ebay.com.au/150-Lbs-Power-Table-Feed-Bridgeport-Milling-Machine-Z_W0QQitemZ390094110283QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Tool_Work_Holding?hash=item5ad36bbe4b&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262 (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/150-Lbs-Power-Table-Feed-Bridgeport-Milling-Machine-Z_W0QQitemZ390094110283QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Tool_Work_Holding?hash=item5ad36bbe4b&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262)

Dave

[Retromilling]

Its a hard choice to make . There is good and bad both ways.
You realy have to look at what work you will be doing. Then buy the best machine you can afford for that work.
One of the good points of the smaller mills is that they are more reliable than the bigger but cheap and nasty Chinese mills. More complication means more breakdowns.
However if you want to mill larger jobs then you need the bigger mill and you takes your chances . Untill you buy a cheap big mill you don't know the true incompetence of Chinese manufacturing . It will astound you.
Like 2 inches of red clay and tallow fat in the coolant tank of my H& F mill . It defies understanding.