How to ID carbon v. HSS chisels

[jefferson]

The younger brother is coming over for the weekend. With his chisels for sharpening.

I fear they are carbon steel (he bought a "job lot" from a deceased estate, including a 20 year old Woodfast) - but how do I tell the difference?

All of my relatively new chisels have the HSS stamp. Is that the defining ID mark?

I hope someone can help. :)

[mick61]

G`day once you put them on the grinder you will see the difference in the colour of the sparks coming of the steel, I think the carbon has redder sparks for want of a better word.
Mick:D

[artme]

Yep, grinder sparks are the easiest way to identify each sort.

Put one of you HSS to the wheel and use that spark pattern and colour as a reference.

[Gil Jones]

High carbon steel grinding sparks are white, with numerous fine sparks.

HSS grinding sparks are small red-orange balls, and nowhere near as many of them.

These too articles may be helpful. "HI C" means carbon, and "hi alloy" means (for our purposes) "HSS".

[hughie]

Good one Gil. :2tsup:

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

An alternative way is to "mis"sharpen 'em and let 'em blue. If the tool dulls really, really quickly in use after that, it's CS.

Mind you, I wouldn't abuse my own tools like this and I suspect few others would want me to ID their tool steel this way... :innocent:

[Grumpy John]

Carbon steel tools are more susceptible to rusting than good quality HSS tools.

Carbon steel chisel on the left
HSS skew on the right

117941

[NeilS]

I fear they are carbon steel (he bought a "job lot" from a deceased estate, including a 20 year old Woodfast) - but how do I tell the difference?



Jeff - not all HSS is marked as such.

With your Tormek you are not going to get any sparks to test if they are HSS or HCS, but there is also no risk of detempering them with a slow wet grind.

Using the Tormek you will probably find that the HCS tools will sharpen quicker than HSS.

You can also tell the difference in use. Quality HCS will cut better to begin with but will not stay sharp as long as HSS.

HCS is very good for light finishing cuts. I still have a few that I use from time to time. Also good for learning to sharpen on dry grinders... you quickly learn to use a light hand to avoid detempering.

....

[jefferson]

Thanks Neil & Co,

The brother and his tools will be here late this afternoon. I'll let you know how I get on.....

I suspect I will spent quite a few hours sharpening his chisels. :rolleyes:

[jefferson]

The brother arrived as expected.

His chisels are almost all HSS. Red sparks off the grinder. Thanks goodness. I sharpened quite a few on the True-grind and Dave liked the set-up. He gasped a little more when I showed him "Tormek sharp" though. I'll send him home with a spare True-grind and get him back into turning again. :2tsup:

Two Henry Taylors too, but a lot of gaps..... No detail gouge for a start. And not one scraper. (He kept asking me, how did I get such a good finish.....).

Anyway, I got him started on his first lidded box. An elegant box.

The hollowing went OK. He started with a L & S detail gouge, then followed with the Sorby multi-tip and the final finish cuts with my Ci0.

He was doing fine, until he decided to do a final shaping cut on the outside of the base of the box after most of the hollowing.

With a skew. :(:(:(

Ouch!

I did a quick-fix with the bowl gouge - the box ended up the thinnest I've had a hand in turning.

The base is done, lid ready to go for tomorrow. Jam chuck lesson 1A in the morning.

Dave handles the chisels well enough, he just hasn't had the privilege of being taught by experts. And he really hasn't turned for almost 20 years. But I've given him the bug (I think).

I'll be throwing out a couple of Dave's chisels - bits welded onto old files that look decidedly dodgy.

Thanks guys for the heads-up on HSS v. carbon steel.

[NeilS]

..... And not one scraper. (He kept asking me, how did I get such a good finish.....).



Batch buys of secondhand woodturning tools often have more skew chisels than some of us would want to 'poke at a stick', but, if good steel, they do make reasonable scrapers of various shapes and sizes ( when re-ground, of course...:roll: ), albeit not as thick as some purpose made scrapers.

Jeff - did your brother end up with any 'spare' skews in the batch?

....

[jefferson]

Neil, no spare skews, except the "home-made" files cum skews that belong in the bin.

Brother David turned a little maybe 20 years ago and is just getting back into it. Hard though, with 2 young kids.....

We've played a little today. Dave sure sees better than I do!

$$$ to spend though to get him all "geared up". Trying to talk him into upgrading his Woodfast to variable speed. (Dave likes bowls and platters most, so I think it's a worthwhile investment).

He cut his first discs today and was most impressed with the WWW grind on the mini chisels. :2tsup::2tsup:

And I did enjoy passing on some of what your guys have taught me. Thanks.