Who's soundproofed their workshop?

[chocwheaton]

Hi all,

I'm buying a new house and a big factor for me is proximity to neighbours and workshop noise. I've been on the hunt for a house with only deaf neighbours, but the real estate agents keep telling me it's not likely to happen :roll:. But I suspect they're just not 'can do' people!

I mostly do my woodwork in the evenings (after work) and often find trying to be quiet very limiting. Eg I can't use the thicknesser/mitre saw/router/ cause they all scream. Air compressor noise is a biggy too, and even bashing on a chisel to cut a mortise is dam noisy at 10pm when the outside world is all quiet. Tried cutting metal with an angle grinder while idol is on the tellie next door? What's the point in all those tools and nice machines if I can't use em when I have time to use them!

So it's time to get serious! If its just not doable, I'm going to have to put up rather than shut up, and buy a house on a big block of land...much much further out of town so the neighbours are at least too far away for me to hear them complain when I work at night! But that means a long commute to work etc etc.

What do you reckon...is it doable, or should buy where cows are my only neighbours?

My gut tells me that for about 5k I could soundproof a 6*12 shed to a good level. I'm thinking a carefully selected dense insulation in the walls and ceiling, then line it with some type of fibre board, than put up a second internal skin mounted on rubber topped spacers, making an air gap of an inch or so between the internal wall and the structure of the shed. Then chuck in an A/C so I can work in there with it all shut up.

I could also put all machines and workbenches that generate vibration on rubber matts to isolate that vibration from being transferred through the slab to the structure.


But what about windows and double roller doors? I think they'll be the weakpoint and have no idea how to soundproof those. Maybe just rip out the windows and have lots of lights since I work at night mostly anyway. Daylight doesn't help me much as it is.

So, what have you tried to soundproof your shed?
How well did it work?
What would you do if you had about 5k to spend on it?
Any other ideas?
Should I not bother trying and move to the sticks?
Cheers

Greg

[chocwheaton]

Forgot to mention that I'll probably change a couple of machines for models that don't make as much noise.

Specifically a new thicknesser with a induction motor (I have a Jet screamer) and I'd consider helix cutters.

I think metabo make a mitre saw with a induction motor too, but I can't seem to find it on their website.

***edit*** found it: http://www.justtools.com.au/prod798.htm

Cheers

[Kev Y.]

I am not too sure how soundproof my workshop is, I have nearly finished lining it. it is 8x6x2.7.

The walls are insulated with 2.5 fibreglass batts, then covered with 12mm plasterboard, the ceiling has the same 2.5 batts covered with 3mm MDF.
When I mounteed the plaster and the MDF, I attached some 2x1 pine battons to the top hat sections first. These also aided in holding the batts in place.

After lining, I believe the weak spots in relation to sound escaping are the window, PA door and the main roller door.

The window I dont think I can do anything with, the PA door can be lined with MDF over 2.5 batts, the roller door is again another issue re: noise reduction.

The main machinery I use in the evening (nothing loud after 8pm) is the lathe and the air compressor.

Any cutting I manage to get done between 5:30 and 7pm.

[JT]

Well if you are looking at spending 5K on the exercise you might find the services of an Acoustic Consultant helpfull. They will be able to visit your location and understand what kinds of sound you want to block out(certain high pitched frequencies) and prepare a short brief of what you could do and what kind wall build up with a certain type of insulation would work best. Try the yellow pages.

[TP1]

A cheaper clone version of the Metabo is sold by Trade Tools direct see:

TradeTools Direct - Serious Tools...Seriously Discounted! (http://www.tradetoolsdirect.com/Catalogue/ProductView.aspx?ProductCode=GP255)

I have one of these quiet machines and did a little review here http://www.woodworkforums.com/f171/scms-induction-motor-review-100781/:

[TP1]

I forgot to mention that apart from machining timber, one of the loudest noises in my workshop was coming from the industrial vacuum cleaner which operates while attached to sanders, joiners etc. The cheapies are absolute screamers. We often don't realise how long we have these things operating for.

That was one of the reasons I took the plunge on a Festool vac. The noise is far less invasive of the surroundings. There may be cheaper quiet alternatives or even vacs with adjustable suction which can be toned down when maximum suction is not required.

[rsser]

5k is a lot to drop on a shed that you might have to leave or be kicked out of.

[chocwheaton]

5k is a lot to drop on a shed that you might have to leave or be kicked out of.

5k does seems a lot, but I look at it this way...25k is a lot to drop on a shed I can't use. 30k for a shed I can use is much better value for money.

Cheers

[chocwheaton]

I forgot to mention that apart from machining timber, one of the loudest noises in my workshop was coming from the industrial vacuum cleaner which operates while attached to sanders, joiners etc. The cheapies are absolute screamers. We often don't realise how long we have these things operating for.

That was one of the reasons I took the plunge on a Festool vac. The noise is far less invasive of the surroundings. There may be cheaper quiet alternatives or even vacs with adjustable suction which can be toned down when maximum suction is not required.

Yeah I agree with that, especially since sanding usually isn't a quick process. My stationary dust extrators are not too loud, but the vac I have on wheels which I use with my rotex one noisy bugger.

Cheers

[chocwheaton]

Well if you are looking at spending 5K on the exercise you might find the services of an Acoustic Consultant helpfull. They will be able to visit your location and understand what kinds of sound you want to block out(certain high pitched frequencies) and prepare a short brief of what you could do and what kind wall build up with a certain type of insulation would work best. Try the yellow pages.

That's a good idea. I might do that if it's not too expensive. My main worry is spending all that money doing the soundproofing, only to find out it's doesn't work well enough and I still can't work at night. That would be a waste of money :o. Hopefully an expert can make sure I implement the best soundproofing for the structure and types of noises I make.

Cheers

[murray44]

I think trying to soundproof the shed will be very difficult, as someone pointed out especially the roller and PA door.

It might be easier to make a sound proof room within the shed but that may not be possible from a practical point of view i.e. you may not have the space.

Is the shed also the garage that needs to have vehicle accesss? If so, much harder.

[cultana]

It may not be an issue but be careful re council and shed. They may not consider a shed workshop should operate after a specific time sound proofed or not.
This may be part and parcel on how the shed building application goes to council as well, ie shed or workshop.

[chocwheaton]

I think trying to soundproof the shed will be very difficult, as someone pointed out especially the roller and PA door.

It might be easier to make a sound proof room within the shed but that may not be possible from a practical point of view i.e. you may not have the space.

Is the shed also the garage that needs to have vehicle accesss? If so, much harder.

Nope its going to be a single purpose woodworking shed. No cars allowed! So I guess I block up one of the two roller door spots and replace the remaining roller door with one of those panel lift doors. Then it could have sound insulation stuff behind it.

[plunger]

Just a thought but if the roller door is difficult to insulate, why not have a sliding door, especially if it is not for vehicles etc.

I've got one on my 4.5m wide shed so the opening is half that width. There is some thickness to the frame so you could insulate it. I prefer the slider because there is more usable space behind it and you don't need a separate PA door.

Garry

[Master Splinter]

Check the Renovation forum - info on soundproofing there.

Basically (working from memory) two layers of standard plasterboard, mounted on a metal track that is secured through rubber isolating bushes and a layer of rockwool insulation in the cavity.

About your only option for the garage door - if it's a panellift door - is to can glue polystyrene foam to it.

[chocwheaton]

It may not be an issue but be careful re council and shed. They may not consider a shed workshop should operate after a specific time sound proofed or not.
This may be part and parcel on how the shed building application goes to council as well, ie shed or workshop.

If I have to build a shed (rather than buy a house that already has a shed in place) then I'd just put it through planning as a shed, then do the soundproofind modifications after it's built.

Councils really only get involved if people complain about noise or some other sort of disturbance. If neighbours can't can't hear, see, or smell anything caused by what I'm doing, I don't think it matters what time I'm doing it.

Cheers

[bluegum30]

just wondering out loud here ,if you soundproof a small area like your shed does the noise your stopping from escaping create a health problem for yourself ,like sound waves bouncing around inside the shed,might be an idea to check this out.:)

[TP1]

just wondering out loud here ,if you soundproof a small area like your shed does the noise your stopping from escaping create a health problem for yourself ,like sound waves bouncing around inside the shed,might be an idea to check this out.:)

Actually, quite the contrary. True soundproofing doesn't reflect the sound. The acoustic material effectively deadens it by not transmitting or reflecting the sound waves. A little bit like carpeted rooms are quieter than bare floors.

However, if the walls are merely thicker with MDF instead of acoustic panelling, , less sound will be transmitted outside, but the same level will exist inside.

[cultana]

If I have to build a shed (rather than buy a house that already has a shed in place) then I'd just put it through planning as a shed, then do the soundproofind modifications after it's built.

Councils really only get involved if people complain about noise or some other sort of disturbance. If neighbours can't can't hear, see, or smell anything caused by what I'm doing, I don't think it matters what time I'm doing it.

Cheers

No problem. I was just hinting it might pay to keep an eye on council bylaws.

It would though appear your council may be a bit more lax than the one here.

[beer is good]

Gyprock make a product called Sound Check which I think is 16mm thick. Maybe 2 layers of that would really cut down the noise.

[LanceC]

What about excavating a massive hole, and building a shed with the roof at ground level (like a bomb/cyclone shelter)? I've fantasized about doing this with shipping containers. They're cheep, and provide all the structural integrity I'd need. Once in the ground, the only place sound will get out is via the roof, which would be well insulated with little effort.

Alternatively, build it above ground out of something like Hebel blocks, which being not that dense, should attenuate sounds rather well.

[chocwheaton]

What about excavating a massive hole, and building a shed with the roof at ground level (like a bomb/cyclone shelter)? I've fantasized about doing this with shipping containers. They're cheep, and provide all the structural integrity I'd need. Once in the ground, the only place sound will get out is via the roof, which would be well insulated with little effort.

Alternatively, build it above ground out of something like Hebel blocks, which being not that dense, should attenuate sounds rather well.


I think digging a 12m * 6m * 3m hole in the ground is a bit more than I want to do! Imagine the planning hurdles even to be allowed to do it!

[TP1]

Alternatively, build it above ground out of something like Hebel blocks, which being not that dense, should attenuate sounds rather well.

Have you priced Hebel Blocks or Blue board as an alternative. The latter has a rendered finish I think.

I worry a little about using MDF lining for the fire hazard aspect

[johnc]

I've a 8m x 4m x 2.7m shed. It's iron on a timber frame, with sisalation to walls and roof, R4 batts in the roof and boral sound deadening batts in the walls. The walls are lined in 12mm pine lining and the roof in normal 10mm plasterboard. The windows are double glazed and sealed around the gaps between frame and studs. There is one large entry door that has laminated glass in part and heavy ply both sides. Much of the material had been scrounged and it didn't cost as much as you might think about $3,500 all up. The walls and roof are iron except for a portion of old roof which is tile.

The plus is the neighbours don't hear anything if they are inside of a night, even running dusties, vacs, thicknesser you name it. I checked after getting it all going as the last thing I wanted is peed off neighbours.

The other thing is the temperature is very stable, and nothing rusts, the house on the other hand is a different story.

[chocwheaton]

So, all good info so far, but has anyone actually tried to soundproof they shed? I'm really keen to hear first hand if anyone's done it, and how did it work out?

Cheers

[issatree]

Hi chocwheaton,
A very old friend, years ago, bought some Masonite 3/8in thick, Screwed it to the wall, cut 4in. holes in the top corners, & blew all his shavings & sawdust into the wall cavity.
When you went to his place, you could hear a murmur, as you neared his tin door & when you entered the shed, he could have at least 2 machines running.
The place was like death. Quiet as a mouse outside.
Regards,
issatree.

[chocwheaton]

I've a 8m x 4m x 2.7m shed. It's iron on a timber frame, with sisalation to walls and roof, R4 batts in the roof and boral sound deadening batts in the walls. The walls are lined in 12mm pine lining and the roof in normal 10mm plasterboard. The windows are double glazed and sealed around the gaps between frame and studs. There is one large entry door that has laminated glass in part and heavy ply both sides. Much of the material had been scrounged and it didn't cost as much as you might think about $3,500 all up. The walls and roof are iron except for a portion of old roof which is tile.

The plus is the neighbours don't hear anything if they are inside of a night, even running dusties, vacs, thicknesser you name it. I checked after getting it all going as the last thing I wanted is peed off neighbours.

The other thing is the temperature is very stable, and nothing rusts, the house on the other hand is a different story.

Awesome! It's good to hear that soundproofing is possible. A few quick questions:



Did you decide on purpose to not have car access doors like roller doors or similar?
You say your walls are lined in 12mm pine lining. Whats that? Is it like pine tongue and groove?
If it cost you $3500 with scrounged materials, then I think my 5k estimate is looking like it might not be enough, considering my shed should be in about 12*6, so is about double the size, and I don't know where I'd get materials other than buying it from standard suppliers

Cheers

[TP1]

I have seen a colorbond shed spruced up for other uses. Insulation batts were first installed all over and veneered ply panels were used on the walls. For the ceiling polystyrene sheets coated underneath with vermiculite were fixed into place.

It was incredibly well insulated from a temperature perspective and the it did help with the sound. I didn't test it from the outside but there was less noise inside. Also when it rained, the noise on the roof didn't seem as intense but you still couldn't compare it to a brick construction.

I have also had to soundproof a boat that I owned a little while ago. It had twin diesel engines and was a bit too loud when the throttles were wide open. I had an acoustic engineer look at it and we ended up using a purpose built thermo- acoustic material to line the deck above the engine. This replaced the conventional insulation material used by the boat builder. The difference was remarkable and I wouldn't have believed this 1" thick material would make such a difference.

From memory , it wasn't too cheap as nothing for a marine application is, but what I learned from that is that good acoustic sheeting from a reputable manufacturer will beat a home made solution ( providing it is still affordable)

[chocwheaton]

Found a good old thread on the topic. Haven't read through it all yet: http://www.woodworkforums.com/f11/sound-proofing-7533/

Soundman's posts on sound absorbtion are really interesting. So in addition to soundproofing the shed, you can make up sound absorbtion panels that absorb sound so it doesn't even get to the walls to be transmitted outside.

[chocwheaton]

This product looks interesting. Called Green Glue and it's used in between layered panels of plasterboard or other panel material:

Green Glue is your soundproofing and noise reduction material (http://www.greengluecompany.com/index.php)
The Five Principles of Soundproofing / Sound Isolation (http://www.greengluecompany.com/fivePrinciplesOfSoundproofing.php)

Lots of info on that site. I've already found two places in Brisbane that sell it so its easily available.

Cheers

[johnc]

Awesome! It's good to hear that soundproofing is possible. A few quick questions:



Did you decide on purpose to not have car access doors like roller doors or similar?
You say your walls are lined in 12mm pine lining. Whats that? Is it like pine tongue and groove?
If it cost you $3500 with scrounged materials, then I think my 5k estimate is looking like it might not be enough, considering my shed should be in about 12*6, so is about double the size, and I don't know where I'd get materials other than buying it from standard suppliers
Cheers

The shed is in the back corner of the yard, there is no car access. The door is wide enough to move machines and furniture in and out without any problems, there was no need or wish for a roller door. From what I understood a roller door is a problem in terms of thermal efficiency and noise suppression because of the gaps around the door.

The lining is that pine tounge and groove product with another groove up the centre of the board. It came out of someones bathroom, if that hadn't been available I would have probably used 12mm bracing board.

The iron was unused stuff a rellie had held in storage for years, the double glazed windows are left overs or mis orders from a glazier. The window frames we recycled from a WRC garden setting. The frame, insulation etc all new, although I was lucky to get the bulk of the timber at cheap rates paying fully price for the roof timber only. Some material came from an existing 3.6 x 2.7 shed which formed part of the new structure.

[gpsmith]

My son and I have just completed a rehearsal and recording studio - (4 rooms) that are close to a residential area. We used an Acoustic engineer who designed the rooms - 300mm gaps between walls, 75mm insulation sound batts, and 2 13mm layers of firecheck plaster on both walls and ceilings, double solid core doors. The studio was also mounted on sound absorbing pads. You can just hear the bands outside the building and it is quite close to the neighbours.
We also looked at the Green Glue - it sounded promising but the amount you needed made it quite expensive. The firecheck plaster had the same sound rating as the soundcheck plaster.
Because the rooms had to be sealed we also needed an air exchange system which was pricey.
If you want anymore information PM me.
Regards,

[Elill]

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread. I am currently highly involved in the topic at hand. Soundproofing a workshop is easy and inexpensive, having a workshop that is soundproof and well ventilated is a little harder, but not that much.

You need an isolated structure - so if it is a shed you've got an isolated structure from where you are trying to stop the sound going i.e. everywhere (your place, neighbours etc), If you don’t have a shed and it connected to a house you need to isolate the walls and ceiling and perhaps floor from the rest of the structure. This can be done by putting in separate stud walls that don’t touch the other walls, or using hat channel and isolation clips as someone else mentioned.

Got an isolated structure? Next it needs to be sealed and sealed well. Every single little hole including power points etc need to be sealed – a fire rated sealant is what you want. The other stuff hardens over time and doesn’t work.

Damping the structure? This is what green glue does and is only really for low frequencies – not really what you get in a workshop.

Edit: the special gyprock boards are a waste of money - get 2 layers of BGC's 16mm fire rated board
Insulation – you don’t need rock wool, you just need to loosely fill cavities with something to stop is resonating i.e. being like an empty drum.

So that’s its – with ventilation you want in line vents that have a serpentine box. This means a box with multiple U lines of ducting to stop sound waves from bouncing through it.

If you want it to be more pleasant to work in cover any surface you can in 48kg^m3 insulation (polyester is preferable). This will absorb much of the noise and make working with loud machines a little bit more pleasant (doesn’t remove the need for protection) nor does this aid in soundproofing.

Oh and Doors – need to be sealed with acoustic grade sealers (see Door Seals of Australia (http://www.doorseals.com.au/))

Finally, refer to Soundproofing walls, ceilings and floors. Noise control products and solutions | Soundproofing Company (http://www.soundproofingcompany.com) for more specifics.

[chocwheaton]

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread. I am currently highly involved in the topic at hand. Soundproofing a workshop is easy and inexpensive, having a workshop that is soundproof and well ventilated is a little harder, but not that much.

You need an isolated structure - so if it is a shed you've got an isolated structure from where you are trying to stop the sound going i.e. everywhere (your place, neighbours etc), If you don’t have a shed and it connected to a house you need to isolate the walls and ceiling and perhaps floor from the rest of the structure. This can be done by putting in separate stud walls that don’t touch the other walls, or using hat channel and isolation clips as someone else mentioned.

Got an isolated structure? Next it needs to be sealed and sealed well. Every single little hole including power points etc need to be sealed – a fire rated sealant is what you want. The other stuff hardens over time and doesn’t work.

Damping the structure? This is what green glue does and is only really for low frequencies – not really what you get in a workshop.

Edit: the special gyprock boards are a waste of money - get 2 layers of BGC's 16mm fire rated board
Insulation – you don’t need rock wool, you just need to loosely fill cavities with something to stop is resonating i.e. being like an empty drum.

So that’s its – with ventilation you want in line vents that have a serpentine box. This means a box with multiple U lines of ducting to stop sound waves from bouncing through it.

If you want it to be more pleasant to work in cover any surface you can in 48kg^m3 insulation (polyester is preferable). This will absorb much of the noise and make working with loud machines a little bit more pleasant (doesn’t remove the need for protection) nor does this aid in soundproofing.

Oh and Doors – need to be sealed with acoustic grade sealers (see Door Seals of Australia (http://www.doorseals.com.au/))

Finally, refer to Soundproofing walls, ceilings and floors. Noise control products and solutions | Soundproofing Company (http://www.soundproofingcompany.com) for more specifics.

Thanks Elill!