To buy or not to buy...?

[Medal Collector]

Hello all,

Had a thorough look at the new CS 50 bench with all the bolt-ons this weekend, have the wife's approval to purchase, am a novice with big dreams, have the money, should I or shouldn't I??

Thoughts anyone? I have heard it is the best. I intend to make a plan drawer cabinet like the old blue print drawers and would need a router table too. Have a ryobi bench saw that started the bug but soon realised its limitations. I guess number one concern is the depth of cut but cant see myself cutting two inch thick stock for any conceivable project at this stage.

Cheers,

[Ben from Vic.]

Medal.

I also am impressed by the inovation and quality of the Festool products.
However, in this case I'd suggest that unless you need to move your 'table saw' often your money would best be spent on a more permanant unit.

If you a tradie and plane to take it from site to site, then you'd have the Rolls Royce of that class.

If not then your probably pay a lot of money for portability that you don't really need.

There are a lot of decent saws in that price range (I'm guessing $1500 with a few extras), and most of them will easily cut 2 inchs plus.


Ben.

[nt900]

Medal,

I agree with Ben, there are alternative saws for your money. Portability should be a priority if looking at the CS 50. I own a CS 70 Full EB Set (with larger sliding table). Portability was important to me. Although far from moving the saw from site to site on a daily basis, I move it around the one site quite a bit. That site being my own and neighbouring home renovations. It worked out well for me.

But for further consideration: in addition to being portable, the CS 70 has additional features. Pull saw functionality, powerful and variable speed motor with constant speed electronics, good cutting depth, width, etc. Motor air input filter for longevity, and accuracy.

I have not had a chance to use a CS 50, but I did have a look at the shop. I would say it has a number of improvements over the CS 70. Improved sliding table, stiffer and probably more accurate. Improved ease of changing blades, and I have to say the CS 70 is about as easy as I have ever seen in a table saw so far, the CS 50 is even better. Cheaper. The one disadvantage is the reduced depth of cut. I rarely use the full 70mm of the CS 70, and in most cases the 50mm of the CS 50 would fit my purposes. Knowing you can turn the work up site down and get 100mm out of it.

I suggest if you buy the CS 50, get the complete kit (all the bolt ons). Much better value and far more useable. It may sound expensive, but the incremental cost over other saws is not necessarily that high.

One other thing. If you get the CS 50, have a look at their dust extractors. I have a CT 33 attached to my CS 70, and I use it on other tools. Festool build excellent dust extracting equipment for use on their saws and power tools.

Cheers.
NT900

[Medal Collector]

I understand the point on potability, what is the alternative (non chinese) that offers the same advanced features that the CS 50 offers? I am only starting out but have read through a couple of carbotech style catalogues and seen nothing else that has the same features except some of the Scheppach units in Carbotech, maybe that would be a better buy although I am working in a garage and may need to move the saw a little bit... so many options!!

[nt900]

Medal,

Around the garage 'portability' can be achieved with a heavier stationary machine on a roller arrangement, where the CS 50 is really 'ultra-portable' by comparison. So as I do, outside of the garage and around the house is where it really comes into its own.

Where are you located? Is there a woodworking show coming to your town? Melbourne has it coming in October. Canberra in September.

http://www.workingwithwood.com/

You should be able to get your hands on most of the currently available machines there. Just to add to the confusion, or help you make a final decision. And at the moment the Festool Spring sale has the CS 50 EB Set coming with the bonus 'Saw Blade Garage'.

By the way, as well as the 3 year warranty on Festool equipment, they claim a 48 hour return on repairs.

Even though I have the CS 70, I almost wish I had have brought the Festool Basis System instead. Initially for about $1500 you get a say table and an excellent portable circular saw. But the system converts into a router table as well. And the bit I really like, you can have both side by side with the saw in the main table and the router in the extension table. Or visa versa. Then you can share the same sliding table (small or large version) for both types of work. Festool gear I am rather impressed by, but that combination I really am impressed with. Plus you can use the guide rail arrangement on both tools for out of table work, and .... I could go on forever.

[silkwood]

I have the Basis 1A with the AT55 plunge saw. I agree that for permanent mounting the extra weight and slight noise difference of a true table-saw is the go. I have a need for occasional portability. Couple that with the pull-saw mode and the saw-guide units available and the Basis is a fantastic piece of equipment. Well worth the investment IMHO.

[nt900]

Silkwood,

Do you have any other basis modules? I wonder how many people actually get more than one module.

[nroht]

Hi all,

Finally after downsizing to a town house ten years ago, I'm again rebuilding my tool collection - with increased space constraints, but greater financial freedom! Consequently, much of the Festool range looks very attractive for my purposes and I have been looking closely at the CS 50 in particular. I have to say though, if you are counting on the full 50mm rip capacity, be very careful. This is important to me so I had a demo at Festool to see how it went. It became immediately clear that 1200W is simply inadequate for heavy ripping. On both 50mm hard and softwood using the ripping blade, with the Festool expert driving, the CS 50 repeatedly ground to a halt within a couple of feet as the motor protection switched in. (Are there any CS 50 owners who would care to comment on this?). You can probably push other saws to run hotter but I guess they will burn out quicker.

I really liked the CS 50 smaller size, lower weight (17kg cf 32kg), neat handle switches, quick blade change, lower price, etc., but for my purposes the CS 70 isthe one to go for. In the demo it handled heavy ripping perfectly producing a very smooth cut that would require little finishing. My initial concerns about setting up the larger unit were unfounded - it's is easy to fold up and store away. The extra table weight makes it more stable and it has a better draw capacity for 12" shelves. The rip capacity was the real killer though.

As an aside, I think you can look at the rather frightening Festool price a number of ways - assuming the basic functionality suits your needs.
1. If you don't have the money, forget it, don't even look at it!
2. For a trades person, factors like convenience, function, accuracy and reliability may justify the investment simply in terms of time saved and quality of job.
3. For non professional use, if you don't find the Festool design philosophy turns you on in some way, again forget it - little point paying for something you won't benefit from.
4. If you are like me, however, you hope you will continue to get a sense of pleasure with every use - for years after the cost is forgotten. This is very different from being forever irritated by minor design annoyances - and probably using the tool a lot less than you otherwise would.

My biggest worry with a big purchase like this is that a new model will come out just after I buy. I would be interested comments from users and others before I take the plunge.

[nt900]

I have had the CS70 (and all the add-ons including the larger sliding table) now for maybe two years. I use it for home renovation work, and would like to get into personal furniture making when I get the house (make that two houses) completed.

I have to reflect back to why I brought the CS70:

* pull saw capability
* accuracy
* ability to take it out of the garage and around the site/s, including the future possibility of a country ‘estate’
* when required, I can pack it up when not all extension and sliding tables are required, hang them on the wall and make a larger assembly space or other machinery space available
* expected high quality and longevity of the motor and other mechanicals
* good warranty (3 years), 48 hour repair policy, I think they cover courier costs as well
* good customer service from my local All Tools, who were happy to spend lots of time assisting me choose the right saw, neither ignorant of Festool products or felt the need to bull about anything Festool or other competing brand; subsequent further discussion on the saw has proved useful
* good depth of cut, but have to admit it’s not as big as they come, but have to admit I am yet to find 70mm a limitation
* variable speed motor



What I did not necessarily appreciate until owning it:

* not sure why the CS50 bogged down, but the CS70 has yet to have a problem ripping hard or softwood at full capacity, never slowed down to any point that I felt like I need to back off, never cut out due to overheating
* due to the electronics controlling the motor speed, the saw tries to run at a constant speed (selectable) whether under load or not, the effect being little slowing down whilst cutting (above point) and therefore quieter whilst idling without load, as it does not feel the need to run at full capacity
* easy blade change above the table


What I think could be better:

* I think the sliding fence could be better, especially as it moves from main table across to the right hand extension table.
* Sliding table could have been longer to accommodate cross cutting 1200mm sheet material – this I solved with a small modification to the sliding table and repositioning the mounting holes, but I would say it reduces the accuracy due to induced flex in the sliding rails.



I like the CS50, and if I was buying today with both CS50 and 70 available, I would still choose the CS70. Although I do like a couple of improvements on the CS50: the pull saw knob on the CS50 is better being more of a handle than a know, does not sound like much, but with the CS70, you can jam your hand on the rip fence when it is positioned close to the blade therefore just above the pull saw knob; I would say the sliding table rail is better and stiffer, but have not used it and can’t back this observation up with experience.


By the way, I agree with your philosophy regarding why you would pay the higher price for a Festool product.

Also, a picture is attached, w storage unit I built to accommodate most of the add-ons, clamps and blades, etc. under the CS70. Adds some weight and stability also.