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adrian
19th August 2004, 10:54 AM
When making a crossgrain bowl it is inevitable for me to get the rough endgrain on opposite sides, inside and out. It seems impossible to sand the roughness out so I'm guessing that it is the tool that should fix this problem. I am using my round nose scraper for hollowing crossgrain bowls and finishing with the same tool. What do others use?
How do I get a gloss varnish type of finish on items that are intended for food use without using varnish?

Alastair
19th August 2004, 12:41 PM
Adrian

Scrapers are not the tool of choice for hollowing bowls, precisely because they do not slice the fibres, but tear them-- hence the bad torn grain.

1 Beg borrow or steal a bowl gouge.
2 Get it sharp
3 Learn to use it. Try your local Woodturning group for advice.

Cleanly cut endgrain fibres will need very little sanding.

In the absence of a bowl gouge, a spindle or detail gouge can also be used down the sides of the bowl. The bottom can be done reasonably with your scraper, since the end grain is not as extreme.

You can still use your scraper for "fairing off" and fine finishing of the inside of your bowl after the gouge, if your gouge work is a bit shaky, but use it freshly ground (ie sharp), use light cuts, and use it in a "shear scraping" fashion if possible, to minimise tearing.

Alastair

gatiep
19th August 2004, 01:07 PM
Like Alastair said! Use the SHARP scraper at a 45 Deg angle pointing downwards for the bottom and tilted in its side at 45 for lightly cleaning up the sides. Very important is a sharp tool and light cuts. You can also try localised sanding with the late stationary.

Why not shellac?????? Well you could use poly urethane instead.

leighd
19th August 2004, 09:36 PM
u can also try 40grit belt sander paper.

Babytoolman
19th August 2004, 11:41 PM
Adrian,
I did my first deeper bowl today and i finally got how to use the Bowl gouge. It made a huge difference when i finished it with 120grit paper and then 400 grit paper. I then used EEE and then a super gloss put on with a brush. It has come up really well i think. The wood is Redgum.

I had to sharpen my tools every 5 minutes approx to get a good finish on the bowl. i hope this helps.

Little Festo
20th August 2004, 09:35 AM
Did you use shellawax or a varnish after the EEE. I don't think a gloss varnish will go too well over EEE as EEE uses a wax to act as a lubricant for the buffing agent (rottenstone?? - I think). I doubt that a varnish would go too well over the wax that EEE would leave on the surface.

You are spot on with having sharp tools, makes the world of difference. To help save a bit of time you could also use powersanding. Went to the Tambourine Turnfest earlier this year and all of the really good turners there did. It is still desirable to get a good result off the tool though.

All the best and happy turning.

Peter - from Darwin

RETIRED
20th August 2004, 10:22 AM
If EEE is uaed properly there should be no residue. :cool:

ubeaut
20th August 2004, 11:19 AM
As said, however EEE (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/eee.htm) is only recommended for use under Shellawax (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/shell.html), Shellawax Cream (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/cream.html) or Shellawax Glow (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/Glow.htm). You may find that other finishes will fall off with the exception of a wax finish.

For the best results the better turners use the Vic Wood Rotary Sander (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/rotary1.htm)and keep their power sanders for fixing up the really rough stuff and their mistakes. Yes even the best turners have mistakes and often their work is really rough when seen prior to using their hide the crud, cure all power sanders.

Have never had to resort to a power sander in my life and I will back my finished product against anyone else's. Rotary sanding is more than enough for any half decent turner and will produce far better results for the final finish. However, there is definitely no substitute for good clean cuts, made by a sharp tool, in the hands of someone who knows the right tool for the job and how to use it.

There is also no substitute for good instruction on the use of the tools. Check out the local library and see if you can borrow the video "Bowl Turning with Dell Stubbs" and also any of the Richard Raffan videos, All are produced by Taunton Press and should be pretty easy to get your hands on.

Clubs can be a help, but beware, the local guru isn't always the one to learn from. Often he is really only a guru in his eyes and those of his followers, who more often than not don't know or haven't seen any better. :rolleyes:

Sorry about the bit of a rant. Couldn't help myself.

Cheers - Neil :D

Christopha
20th August 2004, 11:19 AM
Festo is absolutely correct, the traditional wax base of the EEE will not let your "Varnish" key correctly to the timber. If you are using EEE why not try Shellawax as your final finish or if you are doing the salad bowl thing where you will be using vinegar ( a solvent) in your dressings you cxould finish the outside of the bowl with Shellawax and the inside with a good quality cooking oil. That will give you a contrast in finished gloss levels but that can be quite aesthetically pleasing..... I turn a lot of redgum and find that Shellawax is just about the quickest, most durable and simplest to apply finish going, especially "Shellawax Glow".

Alastair
20th August 2004, 02:36 PM
After a memorable (NOT) experience with doing the "responsible" thing, and finishing a segmented salad bowl with vegetable oil, I changed my tactics.

The bowl was oak, and had been burnished with steel wool. Once the vinegar hit, firstly, all the segments swelled, turning the bowl into a multiple "16-a-gon", and secondly, the acid , tannin and steel residue combined to speckle everything withblue-black stains.

Since then, certainly for segmented, and generally for any bowls which are intended for "wet" use, I finish the outside conventionally, but for the inside, I use a 2-part gloss polyurethane varnish. This is applied to quite a high build, in several coats, while the bowl is still on the lathe. Allowed to harden completely, and then a very light shear scrape to remove runs and denib, followed by sanding wet to ~ 800 grit, and burnishing with wax.

Result is a gloss satin finish which is inert, and impervious to salad dressings. Bowl care advice is "do not immerse. wipe inside clean with soapy cloth and dry" To date I have had no comebacks.

Alastair

Sprog
20th August 2004, 03:03 PM
For the inside of bowls, ring tools give an excellent finish on end grain, just a little light sanding is all that is needed.

Trouble is you need to practice to get proficient with them. They need to be presented at the correct angle or they can be quite scary :D

Ring Tools (http://www.timbecon.com.au/productsdetail.asp?sectid=12664&parentid=12479&prodid=28940)

Alastair
20th August 2004, 03:44 PM
Sprog

Ring tools are designed to work on endgrain, sure, but as they are designed to cut from the centre (bottom) of a hollow, up and out to the rim, they are intended for work where the timber has the grain running along the lathe bed. They are not really suitable for use on faceplate work, where the timber grain runs across the lathe bed. The fibre orientation here requires that you cut from the outside of the bowl into (and down to) the centre. A ring tool is not designed to do this. A bowl gouge (or at a pinch a spindle gouge) is.

Hope I explained this well enough.

Alastair

Sprog
20th August 2004, 03:54 PM
Alastair,

You are quite right, just having one of those moments :D

Alastair
20th August 2004, 03:58 PM
No worries, we all have them.

On further thought though, has anyone tried to do a "backward" cut with a ring tool, ie from rim down to centre. It might be possible, and might help with finishing cranky grain. I'd try it myself, but don't own a ring tool. I might make up a hook tool and try, as the theory should be the same.

Alastair

Christopha
20th August 2004, 04:15 PM
Sprog, you are absolutely correct!
Ring tools are IDEAL for faceplate work but not much chop for spindle turning in my experience, mind you there is only one ring tool and that is the Vin Smith ring tool and they are rarer than rocking horse shat! A ring tool used in a bowl will give you a lovely finish right from the tool which only needs a light sand to be ready for finishing.

adrian
21st August 2004, 12:30 PM
Alastair,

Are there any specific polyerethane products that you use. I went to bunnings to have a look at some and the prices vary greatly ($30 for 500ml of one product or $53 for 4 litres of another). The thing that always annoys me about this type of product is that if you put it into a small bottle and sell it as a boutique product specially formulated for woodworkers/woodturners you can sell it for a fortune. Otherwise, you put it in a 4 litre can for sealing floorboards and sell it for what it is actually worth.

Alastair
23rd August 2004, 11:38 AM
Adrian

I will have to go out and research this. I have been using up the last of a supply I brought with me from South Africa 3 years ago. If it helps, the product there was called "Glatex 8". This might help other relocators guide you in the right direction. It was a general trade product, not a woodworkers' niche product, and was produced by Plascon, who were equivalent to Wattyl here.

If I can find an equivalent, I will let you know.

Alastair

gatiep
24th August 2004, 01:26 AM
Alastair


Glatex 8 was actually a range of 2 part polyurethane paint finishes for all sorts of things including metal, industrial machines, cars etc and the 'clear' was used as a clear varnish. I have used lots of the Glatex 8 pigmented 2 part, one that comes to mind was "Butter Cup" and I also used the "white" to finish off water skis that I made. Was very durable even when skiing out of the water onto the beach.
In Australia I have used Premier Paints ( a South African Co in Perth ) Clear 2 part, which is what is the top cote over metallic coloured cars, with very good success. I am sure that any automotive clear coat 2 pac will do what Glatex 8 does, bearing in mind that Glatex 8 has been on the market since the mid 70's.
Have a good week!

Alastair
24th August 2004, 11:11 AM
Joe

I spent some time in the auto paint industry, and the 2-pack topcoats we used were isocyanate based. As such they would also be very durable, as I would imagine that the technology is associated with that of the superglues, which you see punted as durable (albeit expensive) finishes for turning.

regards

Alastair