epoxy glue

[texx]

just been over on the IAP site but i am not a member over there so i can not post but some of you guys are so i will put it here .
there is talks over on that site about using 5 minute epoxy to glue tubes , ok i have not been turning pens long but i built fishing rods for a fair while and there is a huge difference between the 5 minute and the 24 hour or super strength stuff .
on my pen tubes i use the 24 hour stuff ,the reason is .
when rod building the reel seat , grips and everything that needs to be real strong and will stay there most of the life of the rod we use 24 hour araldite the only place we use the 5 minute stuff is on the rod tips or tip runner and that is because it quite often gets damaged and has to be replaced the tip runner is a rod eye or runner with a tiny tube built into it that is a snug fit on the end of the rod blank and when glued in with the 5 minute epoxy it can be removed at a later date you only need to hold the flame of a lighter on it for 2 seconds and you can pull it off very easy the glue turns to mush kinda jelly at the first sign of heat ,
the 24 hour stuff or super strength araldite how ever is almost impossible to get off using this method you will melt the rod blank some times before the glue lets go
so for me i will use 24 hour araldite on my tubes not the 5 minute stuff i figure if your blank gets a bit hot while turning the glue bond just aint what it should be .

[gawdelpus]

Thanks for that rundown , always nice to get a bit of tested info hehe. Cheers ~ John

[artme]

I can see where you are coming from texx but there is a vast difference between the stress on a pen and the stress on a fishing rod.

One fellow, whose website I read some time back, works with older people making pens. He roughs up the tubes really well and uses Titebond.

I wonder if Super strength is not overkill.

[MBUMIK]

i was using 5 minute epoxy, but i am allergic to it, so i am now using thick CA, which i am not finding all that good, 3 blow ups today and i never had any with the 5 minute epoxy

on the flip side however, when putting the points into my arrows, the 5 minute stuff wont cut it and it has to be 24 hour, the reason for this is that the arrows leave my bow doing 320+ feet per second and stops in about 15-18 inches, tremendous heat generation from friction which re-enacts the glue

i don't think sanding would cause this sort of heat generation

MIK

[texx]

i use it for a few reasons main one peace of mind and if i get the blank a bit hot while turning and i some times do im still ok ,and i can sell the pen knowing that if the owner leaves it some where that it may get a bit hot it wont fall to bits .
overkill maybe but i am going to keep doing it , i just wanted to make people aware of the difference between the 2 glue's

[MBUMIK]

i know what you mean mate, but who can wait 24 hours before turning bits of wood into dust, i mean pens

MIK

[shazzkim]

I like the 24 hour stuff. It takes longer to go off and gives you more time to play with it and make sure you have tube, blank and fingers all well coated. I still use med CA, but only for the time trials. ( the ones you have to make fast while the customer is watching)
Kim

[Resination]

First...if you are generating enough heat to release the addhesive bond, the bond is the least of your worries. Cracking and melting come to mind, depending on material.
Second...the pen will not fall to pieces if left in a hot place. The hardware holds it together, not the addhesive. The addhesive just holds the material to the blank for turning. People have been using 5 min. epoxy for a long time.
By all means, do what works for you. :2tsup:

[BoomerangInfo]

I like the 24 hour stuff. It takes longer to go off and gives you more time to play with it and make sure you have tube, blank and fingers all well coated.

Haha, good one Kim :)

I've been using 5-minute epoxy for 90% of my work. No problems yet, but I can see how the 24 hour would be better. Unfortunately, with only 2 days a week to make pens, I don;t have the luxury of waiting a day for my glue to dry. If I was more organised and glued on Sundays, ready for turning the next Saturday, maybe, but I've got too much going on to think that far ahead :) I'd use CA even to speed things up more, but unless I'm really desperate, I'll avoid it, as 1) I've had some instances where the tube has set befor I've got it fully in and 2) I've had blow-outs when using CA.

Good to know the pro's and con's though.

Russell.

[munruben]

My experience although very limited is as follows.

1. Thin cheap, thin CA glue from cheap shop. 1 brass tube let go during turning but no other problem although it is a bit fumy and you need plenty of ventilation during glue up. I only had the one failure and this may have been due to turning too soon after applying the glue. I have found the cheap CA takes a little longer to set over the thicker stuff but hey, the price difference is unbeleivable. I use the cheap CA most of the time but fumes do get to be a problem. Use a mask and keep area well ventilated.

2. Cheap 5 minute epoxy glue from cheap shop. No problem at all, never had a failure using this.

3. Aroldite 5 minute epoxy.. No problem other than the glue and hardner not coming out of the applicator in equal amounts. Maybe a faulty applicator. No real difference between this and the cheap stuff. Smell is a bit strong.

Haven't used 24 hour epoxy,

[texx]

i never said anywhere in my first post we should be using the 24 hour stuff, i just explained the difference in them i dont mind what other people use . flour and water would work if the hardware holds it together .
the heat needed to make the 5 minute stuff let go is not much at all in that it does no damage to the rod blank or the cotton binding just the glue ..the dash board of a car in summer maybe enough i have never tried it to find out .
the hardware holds it all together until the owner pulls it apart to put in a new ink refill or just to have a look or fiddling with it .
but like i say use whatever you like i was only relating the differences between the 2 being not just the setting or cure time but a big difference in performance .
the 5 minute stuff will do just fine but i prefer to use the good stuff on acrylic though i do now and then use the 5 minute on timber where the glue gets a much better key to the blank and timber does not transfer heat as much as acrylic, and i have used thick CA when in a rush for whatever reason but 90% of the time its the 24 hour because i just feel better gluing it up and setting it aside for tomorrow knowing that it will as strong as i can make it .:U

[texx]

My experience although very limited is as follows.

1. Thin cheap, thin CA glue from cheap shop. 1 brass tube let go during turning but no other problem although it is a bit fumy and you need plenty of ventilation during glue up. I only had the one failure and this may have been due to turning too soon after applying the glue. I have found the cheap CA takes a little longer to set over the thicker stuff but hey, the price difference is unbeleivable. I use the cheap CA most of the time but fumes do get to be a problem. Use a mask and keep area well ventilated.

2. Cheap 5 minute epoxy glue from cheap shop. No problem at all, never had a failure using this.

3. Aroldite 5 minute epoxy.. No problem other than the glue and hardner not coming out of the applicator in equal amounts. Maybe a faulty applicator. No real difference between this and the cheap stuff. Smell is a bit strong.

Haven't used 24 hour epoxy,

what happened twice with me when i first started making pens ,was while using the pen mill to trim the blanks just as the cutter approached the tube it started pushing it out the other end .now maybe it was part some thing i had done wrong i dont know although there was plenty of glue ( 5 minute stuff ) on the tube and they had more than 2 hours to cure so since then i have have used the 24 hour . i just think i will use the max rather than the min but thats just me when ever i build anything its normally twice as strong as it needs to be .
when i am busy with farm work or my other business its no great problem to rip up into the shed early morning or at night and drill a couple of blanks and glue the tubes in before heading out to work then turn them next chance i get might be next day or might not be for a few days .
i never intended to start an argument here with this topic i just wanted to tell folks the difference between the 2 glues , and that if you are not in a hurry the 24 hour is a much stronger but maybe not essential option :2tsup:
sorry if i upset anyone i never intended too :B

[texx]

oh yeah and can you hear the rain on my roof as i type this . thats my Xmas present being delivered ,water better than gold :U:D:U

[MBUMIK]

i don't think anyone is getting upset and it is hard to type into words the way you would say things normally due to no emotions in the words

i personally like threads like this so that everyone can let each other know what they are using and how they have found things to work

i do agree whole heartedly that the 24 hour stuff is by far a better product, and maybe the 5 minute stuff is wrongly labeled because it may go off in 5 minutes but i always waited for at least 20-30 minutes before i started to go the next step with the blanks, just to give the glue a bit of time to set properly

thanks for starting the thread, knowledge shared is always better than knowledge stored

MIK

[artme]

Anyone use Tarzan's Grip??:q:q:q

[HazzaB]

Hey There,

I have always used Super Strength Araldite, I did try CA once and still have 3 blanks with brass tubes sticking out about half way:doh:. My dad has done a couple with titebond, I will wait and see how they turn out.

I have only had blowouts with acrylics and I now only do acrylic Key Rings.

HazzaB

[Rum Pig]

I have used super glue and still do for slimline and streamline pens. I have had blow out with this but minimal.
I also have use polyurethane glue (I think that is what is called) it expands like foam and I did not have any blow out with this glue but the glue set in the bottle in this Darwin heat so I have not tried it again. Made about 10 pens with it.
I also use 5min epoxy and find it to be good but I have had blow outs using the barrel trimmer not sure why yet but no blow outs on the lathe:). It is a bit harder to do big batches because you need to keep mixing where CA comes straight out of the bottle.
I have not used 24hr epoxy but I can See the reason behind it I do not know that I have seen it up here but then again I have not gone looking.

I understand the longer it takes to cure the better the bond. In the ideal world I would use 24hr glue.

[Sawdust Maker]

Nice thread, thanks texx

I use a polyurethane, "vise" brand available from bunnies for my wood blanks. (Brett from Addictive put me onto it)

for acrylic I prefer the 24 hour epoxy - gives me a little more time to set the tubes properly. I don't use the polyurethane as it foams and I've seen it through the pen after finishing.

I use the 5 minute when I'm in a hurry :D

[Tornatus]

I'll put in my usual plug for Weldbond, the magic Canadian glue which sticks just about anything to anything, and certainly does a great job on pen tubes - never had a failure. It behaves for all intents and purposes just the same as PVA, and avoids all that chemical nastiness of CAs and epoxies which attack your mucous membranes (and your central nervous system). The only thing to remember is to leave the blanks overnight to cure - not a problem if you plan your penturning sessions ahead, but I acknowledge that it could be a drawback for the terminally impatient ... :;