What a Bridge!

[gemi_babe]

This bridge is half under the water, for ships to pass and then again comes out on the other side. Truly a marvelous piece of engineering! This bridge is between Sweden and Denmark
Picture taken from the side of Sweden
The bridge goes under water to allow movement of ships.

[Ben from Vic.]

Wow, I'm impressed! :D

They do things different over there, I like it.

Thanks for sharing. :)



Ben.

[Gumpy]

That certainly is a sight worth looking at. I once supervised bridge works in Victoria and the one place in the world at that time that amazed me was Japan. These people would build bridges just about anywhere, truly amazing.

Australia has had first's in bridge building as well. At Gisbourne in Victoria they built a bridge where cranes could not lift the beams in place so they cast the columns and crossheads as normal. They then layed the beams out on the roadway, cast the deck over the beams while still on the roadway and then winched the beams and deck over the tops of the crossheads to form the bridge as though it had been built in situ. This process had been done in the past with very small spans but this bridge had a massive span and was very high off the ground which complicated the process.

Just a bit of trivia for you.

Daniel

[Ben from Vic.]

I reckon that we Aussies don't do justice to our own history and engineering feats.

I watched that Seven Wonderd of the Industrial World (I think thats what it was called) on channel two a few months ago and loved it, that sort of stuff is right up my ally.

Learned about the Hoover Dam, the first British sewerage system, Panama canal, etc.

Then the other day we went for a drive up to the Thompson Reservoir, and found that there was a tunnel from that dam to the Sugar Loaf dam.
It's over 40 k's long and goes right through the mountains.

I'm not putting down anyone elses achivments, just lifting ours up. :)


Ben.

Ps.Gemi babe, how did you come across that bridge?

[gemi_babe]

Thought some of ya's might like it :p

Got it in an email from my dad. Which he recieved it from his engineer buddy.

(excuse the spelling on engineer....looks wrong to me...LOL)

I watched the show on the hoover (LOL) dam too. It was amazing the way they did the cement and also tragic.

[kiwigeo]

This bridge is half under the water, for ships to pass and then again comes out on the other side. Truly a marvelous piece of engineering! This bridge is between Sweden and Denmark
Picture taken from the side of Sweden
The bridge goes under water to allow movement of ships. Like the new avatar Gemi,

Looking at the picture, they've obviously figured it was cheaper to dig a tunnel for part of the crossing to allow for passage of vessels. I suspect theyve cut down the costs of tunneling by laying concrete tunnel sections on the seabed.

[kiwigeo]

(excuse the spelling on engineer....looks wrong to me...LOL)

I watched the show on the hoover (LOL) dam too. It was amazing the way they did the cement and also tragic.
The spelling of engineer is correct. It never pays to look too long at a word....if you look at it long enough eventually you can convince yourself you've spelt it wrong.

I saw the Hoover Dam program too and was also struck by the cost of the project in terms of human life.....something people dont think about when they marvel at such projects.

[Holmbo]

Hey.
its my first post, i been lurking for ahvile, my english is not so good, so dont be a spelling nazi to me. :)

About bridge, there is another big bridge in denmark, build together with a tunnel.
Here is a link to the history about building the bridge and tunnel
http://www.sundogbaeltfoto.dk/login.php?refURI=/search/start.php

Steen

[kiwigeo]

While were on engineering marvels....couldnt resist the urge to put up a pic of my "öffice"

(hoping Ive got this right and pic is appearing below)

Martin

[Wood Borer]

Wow, what an office. Where is it?

Do you manage to do any woodwork other than the BB?

[gemi_babe]

It's a groovy avatar :p

I have always wondered where you sleep on those rigs?

Holmbo, there are some great pics there.

There is a bridge in Melbourne, don't know the name, but that also lost some lives during construction.

[AlexS]

Good pic of the bridge/tunnel gemi. not like the clip going around a while ago where the boat towing some barges got into trouble, let the barges go, hit the bridge, broached, rolled, came up and putted along on his way.

Kiwi, what depth is it in?

Another pretty good bit of engineering is the Tinaroo dam on the Atherton tableland. The dam itself is pretty normal, but from it, they take water in an open channel from the eastern side of the range to the west. Also, it was the first dam completed in Australia without stoppage due to either industrial action or lack of funds.

[kiwigeo]

Wow, what an office. Where is it?

Do you manage to do any woodwork other than the BB?Its the Bayu Undan project up in the Timor Sea. What youre looking at are the two production platforms on the left with flare boom from the DPP platform coming towards camera. On the right is the Ensco 104 jackup rig with its drilling package cantilevered out over the DPP platform. The wells go down through slots in the DPP platform. Wells are all deviated out in all directions and at angles of up to 75 degrees. Reservoir is about 3000 m below sealevel but wells extend up to 7500m in measured depth from the platform. Water depth is about 79m.

[kiwigeo]

It's a groovy avatar :p

I have always wondered where you sleep on those rigs?


The rig can accomodate up to 109 people. Cabins are mainly two man (and the occasional woman) jobs with ensuite shower/toilet. If you get unlucky like I have this hitch you might get stuck in a 4 man cabin which is ok unless other guys in the room are working different shifts to you. Since the Geologists are generally nice to the radio operators they generally look after us and keep other bods out of our 4 man cabin unless the rig is chocka block.

And before anyone asks......yes blokes do do what blokes do when they havent seen a woman for weeks but nobody is going to admit to it are they??

[kiwigeo]

There is a bridge in Melbourne, don't know the name, but that also lost some lives during construction.
Think that would be the Westgate Bridge..it fell down during construction.

[Zed]

I often wonder why the sluice gates are at the top of the dam rather than the bottom of the face of the dam - dont dams get silted up and loose capacity ? anyone know why this is ?

[kiwigeo]

I often wonder why the sluice gates are at the top of the dam rather than the bottom of the face of the dam - dont dams get silted up and loose capacity ? anyone know why this is ?
Im not an engineer but I can think of three possible reasons:

1. With gates at bottom of dam hydrostatic head would mean a huge amount of pressure on the gates compared to at the top of dam wall.
2. Doing any maintenance on bottom located gates would require draining the entire reservoir behind the dam.
3. Silt builds up at base of dam....there would be a danger of silt blocking up or impeding operation of bottom located sluice gates.

Martin

[Zed]

the silt is the reason I would put the gates at the bottom so you wouldnt loose capacity due to silting - if you purged regularly you'd not silt up. anyway thanks for the answer - sounds logical.

[simon c]

Hi kiwigeo - I now realise you are a geologist from NZ.

I remember 4 to a cabin with no ensuite (communal showers). Not fun, especially when you're not working on a shift. I was out dealing with a problem with oil going overboard in the water - had to run samples every 4 hours and the platform was full as major construction was going on, I was so unpopular

[AlexS]

Most dams have outlet works near the bottom, with some dead storage below the lowest outlet. Some dams have silted up - the oldest known dam (somewhere in Iran I think) didn't last long before it filled up, and the first Carcoar dam in NSW had silting problems too. However, usually silt is deposited at the top reaches of a dam where the rivers run into the storage.
Modern dams usually have multi-level outlets so that the quality and temperature of the water being released can be controlled, and so they can do as the have at Tinaroo and take the water across the Great Divide. Also, upper outlets can be used to generate hydro power.
The spillway at the top of the dam is used to carry excess water during floods. Most dams won't last long if they are overtopped, so the spillway will (we hope) carry the peak flow of the flood. In NSW and probably most other states, though, design floods have been revised upwards several times during the life of the dams, with consequent rebuilding of the spillways. Burrinjuck was redesigned twice while it was being built and at least twice since!
Some spillways are fitted with gates so that, with a bit of clever operation, you can reduce the damage and possibly the peak outflow during a flood, and end up with the dam full but not overtopped.

Here endeth lesson 1 of Hydrology 101.

[kiwigeo]

Hi kiwigeo - I now realise you are a geologist from NZ.

I remember 4 to a cabin with no ensuite (communal showers). Not fun, especially when you're not working on a shift. I was out dealing with a problem with oil going overboard in the water - had to run samples every 4 hours and the platform was full as major construction was going on, I was so unpopular
4 to a cabin and no ensuite sounds like you were on a platform...most likely in Bass Strait?? Alot of the older platforms and some older rigs are pretty rough on the accomodation side. I can understand your comment about "not being popular"....you get some platforms where the production people treat us rug boys and any other non - production people like lepers. Its often the case when they plonk a rig on a platform and the rig doesnt come with its own accomodation module...we end up having to use the platforms facilities. The production guys suddenly forget that unless someone drills some wells there wont be a reason to have a platform. Ive had my share of dealing with agro platform people and its just all so uneccessary...the politics is what wears you down in this job.

Re oil going in the water....none of that going on here, its zero disharge and its rigidly enforced. Drill cuttings get reinjected down the well and trash gets shipped back to Australia. We even recycle alot of stuff as well.

[oges]

Its the Bayu Undan project up in the Timor Sea.

The company i work for (Honeywell) is involved in the Bayu Undan project, not sure exactly what they are looking after on it though.

[simon c]

Hi kiwigeo, it wasn't Bass Strait, it was back when I lived in the UK, but the platforms were just as old. I know what you mean about the production people - in the past I had been a production engineer and lived the life of riley offshore (ensuite rooms that you share with somebody on the opposite shift to you), it was a shock to go back as an unwanted extra.

[simon c]

The company i work for (Honeywell) is involved in the Bayu Undan project, not sure exactly what they are looking after on it though.

Hi Brett, I believe Honeywell provided the control system for Bayu Undan

Simon

[kiwigeo]

The company i work for (Honeywell) is involved in the Bayu Undan project, not sure exactly what they are looking after on it though.
Control systems I imagine....we dont have much to do with the platform boys up here on the rig. Looking down from the rig at the platform though I often think how much Id hate to be a technician trying to fix something down there....its an absolute maze of pipes and wires. Its all getting too high tech in this business....even up here on the rig, mechanised pipe rackers and downhole logging tools etc. Theres even internet access on this rig.

[kiwigeo]

Hi kiwigeo, it wasn't Bass Strait, it was back when I lived in the UK, but the platforms were just as old. I know what you mean about the production people - in the past I had been a production engineer and lived the life of riley offshore (ensuite rooms that you share with somebody on the opposite shift to you), it was a shock to go back as an unwanted extra.
One problem theyre having in Bass Strait is that some of the older platforms are going to expire structurally before the fields run out....they keep finding new pockets of unswept oil.

My favourite platform would be West Tuna...huge concrete gravity job with two conductor shafts and lopts of space. We had two rigs working the platform at the same time back in 98....a platform over one shaft and a jack up over the other, an impressive sight.

It seems like things are very quiet in the Nth Sea...we have a lot of people out here from that part of the world.

[simon c]

Don't worry about the Bass Strait platforms, every time they find more oil they'll find a way of extending the life of the platform.

West Tuna's a good one, we had some people working on the construction. Biggest platform I've been on was Magnus in the north sea. It had lifts in the quarters (unheard of at the time), but it was fairly straightforward otherwise.

Simon

PS if anybody else is getting bored with thsi offshore chat, I've started another thread on bridges.

[Ben from Vic.]

PS if anybody else is getting bored with thsi offshore chat, I've started another thread on bridges.

Not at all. :)

Keep it coming. ;)


Ben.

[hexbaz]

The bridge goes under water to allow movement of ships. The bit that goes under water is known in Europe as a tunnel. :D

Seriously great piece of engineering though. I have driven over it a few times and it's best to approach the bridge section from the tunnel - wonderful views.

[bitingmidge]

The Tweed River has a lifting bridge at Tweed Heads.

In the early '80's the Council comprised a lively mix of Corrupt, Honest, Clever,Dumb, Rural Urban councillors. BTW, the movie "Murial's Wedding" written by PJ Hogan, was a snapshot of this council; the corrupt councillor "father" a characature of his own father Cr Tom Hogan, who was a great character, but it would seem a little less than honest in carrying out his civic duties.

As usual I have digressed!

The Council were concerned about the cost of operation, and distruption to traffic after the introduction of a tourist ferry service meant that the bridge had to be opened four times a day.

In one lively debate in Council, one councillor actually suggested that rather than having to raise the bridge all the time, it may be cheaper to simply dredge the river under it so the boat would fit.

Would have saved a lot of effort with the bridge that started this thread, if only they'd thought of it!!

:D :D :D
P

[RETIRED]

In one lively debate in Council, one councillor actually suggested that rather than having to raise the bridge all the time, it may be cheaper to simply dredge the river under it so the boat would fit.

Would have saved a lot of effort with the bridge that started this thread, if only they'd thought of it!!

:D :D :D
P

He was kidding wasn't he?

[bitingmidge]

He was kidding wasn't he?

Sadly, NO. :eek:

(We moved back to the Qld side of the border shortly afterwards in case it was something in the water.)

P ;)

[Iain]

I had to read a few times to make sure I wasn't missing something, ROFLMAO :D :D
Back to the series on the ABC recently, wasn't that engineering feats of the 19th century?
I know that there was nothing recent

[stephenmeddings]

The Italians are planning to build a bridge across The Strait of Messina which divides the island of Sicily from Calabria in southern Italy, that is 2 miles (3km) wide.

The bridge will be 60 m (196 feet wide) and will have 12 lanes for traffic and two lanes in the middle for trains. This will allow 140,000 vehicles and 200 trains per day. This will cut down transit times of up to 12 hours down to minutes.

This project if completed would stand as one of the Landmark Bridges of the 21st century. It would be the longest suspension bridge ever built (between towers). Construction is to start by the end of 2005.

Strait of Messina Bridge Project (http://bridgepros.com/projects/Strait_of_Messina_Bridge/)

Some details:
Length of center span: 10,827 feet
Length of each side span: 600 feet
Total length of suspended deck: 12,028 feet
Width of suspended deck: 197 feet
Height of towers: 1,255 feet

Other record suspension bridges (ranked by length of bridge’s center span):
Bridge/Country/Center span
Akashi Kaikyo/Japan/6,532 feet
Great Bealt/Denmark/5,328 feet
Humber/Great Britain/4,626 feet
Jiangyn/China/4,544 feet

[davo453]

There is a good book out called "why buildings fall down - Matthys levy & Mario Salvadori" , its by two very eminent engineers and it is almost a text book really but is interesting reading.

Some serious stuff up's and lessons have been learned, thats for sure.

My favourite is the story of El Zocalo in Mexico were they built the theatre and art museum next to an older part of the city built in the 1500's, it was built on the same level between 1900 and 1934. when visited in the 1940's it had sunk to 1.8 metres below the level of the older building and you had to decend a staircase to get to it.

this was apparantly due to the weight of the theatre pushing water out of the ground below, the older structure was apparently built on rock and the new on the sandy clay sub soil.

in the 1960's if you visited again you had to climb a staircase 1.8 metres from the old building to the theater, this was due to a number of tall buildings being constructed in the area in the interviewing 20 years which had pushed the water out from under their foundations and back under the theatre.

Because of the soil type the buildings were apparently totally undamaged. Don?t know what there situation is today.

Cheers

Dave

[AlexS]

If any of you are into kayaking in Victoria you're probably familiar with the dam on the Mitchell river that now consists if large stone blocks spread about half a Km down the river, and two abutments. Apparently it failed in the first flood after it was built.

If anyone has a photo of it could you please contact me or post here, as I'd like to use it in some course notes I'm writing (with acknowledgement of course). I had some photos, but can't find them now.

[oges]

Not sure what pictures you are after exactly but a Google image search using 'mitchell river' and 'mitchell river dam' brought up a couple of pictures

[AlexS]

Unfortunately doesn't seem to have the one I want - I'll do a more detailed search later. Thanks Oges.