PDA

View Full Version : Diamond Grinding Wheel



Pages : [1] 2 3

brendan stemp
16th Feb 2010, 09:42 AM
I got my WoodRiver diamond grinding wheel yesterday and took it for a quick spin or 6. My first impressions are very favourable. The wheel is an 8" aluminium disc with a 6mm layer of diamond encrusted resin on the grinding surface. I hooked it up to the bench grinder and it ran nice and true, no need for contemplating how to dress it at this stage.
Started grinding skew chisel. Wow. Very impressive finish and very sharp. Did another skew and then a scraper. Same finish. Onto the bowl gouge. I sharpen freehand so I found it difficult because there are no sparks to guide me. Perhaps I will need to use my grinding jig. But one of the most impressive things is that I found it almost impossible to burn the steel. Yes, hard to believe but it is true. I had to press very hard onto the wheel with the tool to get it to burn. I sharpened 6 tools, including 2 bowl gouges and surface of wheel is still flat and true. Early days but I am very pleased with the results so far. I will report back in a week or so. Cost of this wheel is in AUD at todays rate $168. Worth it? Not sure but that is a lot cheaper than a Tormek and perhaps it will outlast the Al. Oxide wheels by a factor of 4. I wont know the answer to that question for some time yet. The grit is 120 so the finish is very, very nice.

NeilS
16th Feb 2010, 10:17 AM
Thanks for your initial review, Brendan.




...... I found it difficult because there are no sparks to guide me.

Unexpected effect. Come to think of it, I have the same issue when using diamond bits in the Dremel to touch up and edge on some tools. The felt pen on the bevel trick may help. And, a cool grind allows you to immediately feel for the new burr; something that you wouldn't want to try on hot steel...:U

Worth it? Not sure but that is a lot cheaper than a Tormek

And probably faster!



Looking forward to hearing your further assessment.

.....

Ed Reiss
16th Feb 2010, 12:27 PM
Good review Brendan ...tnx.

EX's Timber
16th Feb 2010, 12:42 PM
Sounds interesting, got any close-up pics of said wheel and the grind on the tools?

Ozkaban
16th Feb 2010, 03:14 PM
Sounds interesting. Did that ~$168 include freight? Very interested to hear how it holds up.

Cheers,
Dave

issatree
16th Feb 2010, 04:51 PM
Hi Brendan,
Would the old trick of Textraing the Gouge Bevel, show you what you have done, Brendan.
Regards,
issatree.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

brendan stemp
16th Feb 2010, 08:09 PM
Sounds interesting. Did that ~$168 include freight? Very interested to hear how it holds up.

Cheers,
Dave
No. But I'm thinking about a group order if there is enough interest. This will help to keep the freight costs down>

TTIT
16th Feb 2010, 11:00 PM
Do they give a recommended speed for the wheel Brendan????

brendan stemp
17th Feb 2010, 08:56 AM
Do they give a recommended speed for the wheel Brendan????

No they dont. In fact my biggest criticism of the product is the distinct lack of information/instructions. It's made for bench grinders so I assume it is rated to the appropriate speed/s.

brendan stemp
17th Feb 2010, 09:04 AM
Here are two pics: one of the wheel and one (not particularly good) of a skew chisel I sharpened with it.

Cliff Rogers
17th Feb 2010, 09:17 AM
Interesting. :2tsup:

Texian
17th Feb 2010, 10:09 AM
Hope you will do a long term report in a few months.

brendan stemp
17th Feb 2010, 11:03 AM
Hope you will do a long term report in a few months.

Yep, that was my intention because I am interested to see how it wears over time.

funkychicken
17th Feb 2010, 11:58 AM
Did they provide a cleaning stone with it? Diamond clogs in my experience

TTIT
17th Feb 2010, 12:03 PM
Did they provide a cleaning stone with it? Diamond clogs in my experienceIf it's anything like an ordinary diamond hone, a wipe with a few drops of kero should get it cutting like new again :shrug:

brendan stemp
17th Feb 2010, 02:05 PM
Did they provide a cleaning stone with it? Diamond clogs in my experience

No dressing or cleaning stuff supplied. Just a wheel inside a cardboard box. But it isn't like the typical diamond sharpeners because the diamond is embedded in a resin. Very fine pores/texture. I'm still putting it through its paces; it did an excellent job on a 25mm chisel. Have done lots of grinding on it and its still flat. It still gets the thumbs up but I reserve ultimate judgement 'til later on.

Manuka Jock
17th Feb 2010, 03:17 PM
So how do you balance-dress the wheel when you first mount it on the grinder ?

brendan stemp
17th Feb 2010, 04:14 PM
So how do you balance-dress the wheel when you first mount it on the grinder ?
Read my first posting in this thread.

Manuka Jock
17th Feb 2010, 04:25 PM
Read my first posting in this thread.

I did . You did not address the issue .

I am not asking you how you dressed that wheel , I am asking how the wheel is dressed .
Just because you did not have need do so , does not mean that there is never a need to do so .

So I ask you again ,
So how do you balance-dress the wheel when you first mount it on the grinder ?

:)

WOODbTURNER
17th Feb 2010, 09:59 PM
Manuka,

Shouldn't you ask the manufacturer or agent about balancing? Having a go at Brendan is the wrong way to find out. It comes over that way to me.

Cheers

NeilS
17th Feb 2010, 10:04 PM
So how do you balance-dress the wheel when you first mount it on the grinder ?



I might jump in here, if that's OK with Brendan...:)

Other abrasive wheels, which are made entirely (other than metal arbor) from abrasive grit and bonding material are first pressed into a mould, then fired in a kiln, and, as a result, are prone to some some variation/distortion.

Whereas nearly all the mass of a diamond wheel is a precisely machined metal disk onto which is bonded a thin layer of diamond matrix that comprises no more than about 5 or 6% of the overall wheel dimensions. The only material that can vary in this structure is the thin layer of bonding material holding the diamond particles. Any variation is likely to be negligible on a quality diamond wheel.

If the arbor is a tight fit and the shaft is running true, then it should run true straight out of the box. If it doesn't, send it back!

If a diamond wheel requires 'dressing' as a result of uneven wear then the only thing that will do that is diamond in a stronger bond. This will tear the diamonds out of the softer bond. EDIT: Just remembered that there is another (cheaper) method.... see subsequent post

Hope that is more helpful than confusing....:U

.....

Big Shed
17th Feb 2010, 10:08 PM
I did . You did not address the issue .

I am not asking you how you dressed that wheel , I am asking how the wheel is dressed .
Just because you did not have need do so , does not mean that there is never a need to do so .

So I ask you again ,
So how do you balance-dress the wheel when you first mount it on the grinder ?

:)

Could we try to keep it civil here?

Brendan contributed his first impressions of the diamond grinding wheel, I don't think he invited an interrogation:no::~

So, play nice please!

Manuka Jock
17th Feb 2010, 10:08 PM
I might jump in here, if that's OK with Brendan...:)

Other abrasive wheels, which are made entirely (other than metal arbor) from abrasive grit and bonding material are first pressed into a mould, then fired in a kiln, and, as a result, are prone to some some variation/distortion.

Whereas nearly all the mass of a diamond wheel is a precisely machined metal disk onto which is bonded a thin layer of diamond matrix that comprises no more than about 5 or 6% of the overall wheel dimensions. The only material that can vary in this structure is the thin layer of bonding material holding the diamond particles. Any variation is likely to be negligible on a quality diamond wheel.

If the arbor is a tight fit and the shaft is running true, then they should run true straight out of the box. If it doesn't, send it back!

If a diamond wheel requires 'dressing' as a result of uneven wear then the only thing that will do that is diamond in a stronger bond. This will tear the diamonds out of the softer bond.

I think resin is a comparatively soft bond compared to, say, a sintered diamond bond. But, will go and check my facts on that just to make sure I'm right about that.

Hope that is more helpful than confusing....:U

.....

Thanks for that Neil .

NeilS
17th Feb 2010, 10:48 PM
If a diamond wheel requires 'dressing' as a result of uneven wear then the only thing that will do that is diamond in a stronger bond. This will tear the diamonds out of the softer bond.

.....

Just remembered that there is another (cheaper) method....

I dress my metal bonded diamond blades by slicing up old silicon carbide grinding wheels....:U

The diamond cuts the silicon carbide, but the silicon carbide wears the metal matrix away: allowing the surface diamonds to drop out exposing fresh ones. Can't see why this wouldn't also work with a resin bond.

.....

Manuka Jock
17th Feb 2010, 10:54 PM
Just remembered that there is another (cheaper) method....

I dress my metal bonded diamond blades by slicing up old silicon carbide grinding wheels....:U

The diamond cuts the silicon carbide, but the silicon carbide wears the metal matrix away: allowing the surface diamonds to drop out exposing fresh ones. Can't see why this wouldn't also work with a resin bond.

.....


You might be on to it there Neil .
Any idea how deep/ thick the diamond-resin layer is on those wheels ?

From the photo , it looks to be about an inch

brendan stemp
18th Feb 2010, 07:27 AM
Thanks Neil, I've learnt something about grinding wheels.

I'm interested to see how it wears and so far it's still flat after 1 1/2 days of regular use (I sharpen a lot). Interesting point: I compared the finish off the diamond wheel (120 grit) with that off a Al Oxide wheel ( Also 120 grit) and diamond wheel is significantly better. Another advantage of the wheel is that the diameter keeps constant without the wear factor so the radius on the grind will be the same over time.

artme
18th Feb 2010, 07:53 AM
:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup: To you Brendan. Sounds good.

And :2tsup:to Neil. I wonder if that is the way to clean a Jewel Tool set-up?

NeilS
18th Feb 2010, 10:00 AM
Any idea how deep/ thick the diamond-resin layer is on those wheels ?



About 6mm on that brand.


I wonder if that is the way to clean a Jewel Tool set-up?

Sorry, don't know.

.....

rsser
18th Feb 2010, 11:07 AM
Just as a BTW in the US you can now get diamond coated power sanding discs. About USD18 each!

brendan stemp
18th Feb 2010, 12:13 PM
Just as a BTW in the US you can now get diamond coated power sanding discs. About USD18 each!

C'mon Ern, you're slipping. You usually provide a handy link to save us searching time.:)

rsser
18th Feb 2010, 02:24 PM
Oh dear. Hate to look like a tool 'hooer' but if the hat fits ... :-

The Sanding Glove - Specializing in Quality Sanding Products for Woodturners (http://www.thesandingglove.com/)

Was thinking of ordering some cubitron discs myself, so if anyone wants to order anything from them we cld save some postage.

Ozkaban
18th Feb 2010, 02:34 PM
Oh dear. Hate to look like a tool 'hooer' but if the hat fits ... :-

The Sanding Glove - Specializing in Quality Sanding Products for Woodturners (http://www.thesandingglove.com/)

Was thinking of ordering some cubitron discs myself, so if anyone wants to order anything from them we cld save some postage.

ooooooh...
I just got back from Carbatec with my shiny new Woodfast disk sander (birthday pressie :D). Combined with the lathe purchase, I don't think I should be introduced to any more of these types of sites just yet :no:

rsser
18th Feb 2010, 02:56 PM
Sorry to put temptation in yr way Dave ;-}

Good b/day pressie you got.

Ozkaban
18th Feb 2010, 03:16 PM
Sorry to put temptation in yr way Dave ;-}

Good b/day pressie you got.

Tempation is always fun, though LOML thinks these forums are very expensive... with some justification, I might add!

rsser
18th Feb 2010, 03:44 PM
Well u cld be down the local pole-dancing place shedding 100 buck notes into thongs, or enjoying yrself at home making stuff of use or interest.

Tell her yr cheap ;-}

EX's Timber
18th Feb 2010, 03:45 PM
Tempation is always fun, though LOML thinks these forums are very expensive... with some justification, I might add!

Nuh these forums are saving you money by steering you to buy good quality products, it might cost a few more dollars to buy now, but in the long run you'll save money because it'll still be running in 20yrs time whilst the other cheaper priced product will have given up the ghost and you'll have to layout more dollars to repair or replace it :; :U :H

NeilS
18th Feb 2010, 10:40 PM
Just as a BTW in the US you can now get diamond coated power sanding discs. About USD18 each!

A little more expensive (but larger), and have to be run in water, Lap disks (used by the Gem industry and by carbide sharpeners) are another option. eg here (http://www.inlandlapidary.com/results.asp?search=Flat+Lap+Disks)

Typically used horizontally, but have been thinking for some time on how they could be mounted vertically, which would be more convenient for tool sharpening. Unlike the wheels, would give a flat bevel.

.....

robo hippy
21st Feb 2010, 07:11 AM
This thread grabbed my attention.

I have seen the diamond wheels which have a very thin layer of diamonds straight on aluminum, but more of a wagon wheel type design instead of the solid aluminum core. I have heard that they wear out very fast.

This wheel looks very much like the wheels that I use but I have CBN (cubic boric nitride or some thing like that) bonded to the aluminum.

While looking for the perfect grinding wheel, I investigated diamond, and the consensus is that diamond is great for carbide, but tends to plug up when grinding the softer steels. CBN is made for grinding steel.

My wheels, which are custom made cost me $300 for an 8 by 1 inch wheel with 3/16 inch of material bonded to the wheel. There was no need to spin balance the wheels, and they are dressed by the place that makes them. I clean them up with a very hard aluminum oxide. They do need to be dressed/trued from time to time, as I do get a little wash out. I take them back to the shop that made them, and they put it on a lathe of sorts, and use the same hard aluminum oxide to grind the wheel back to true.

My 80 grit wheel is 4 years old and has just under 1/8 inch of material left on it. I turn some 700 to 800 bowls a year, and a number of other things. I did have some 320 grit wheels made, and they lasted about a year. I now have a 150 grit wheel, and it is lasting a lot longer than the 320 grit wheels. It will be interesting to see how long the diamond ones hold up.

In one picture you posted of your skew and the wheel, it looks like there is a tiny bit of wash out going on, and they will need to be dressed. Regular dressing won't work on them any better than on my CBN wheels as the wheels will eat diamond dressers.

robo hippy

Texian
21st Feb 2010, 08:49 AM
Hey Robo,
Welcome to Australia. These folks are a lot of fun and have a spirit that I really admire. While they're very knowledgeable and appreciate good tools, they don't automatically think that the answer to every problem is to go buy something (unlike so many on the U.S. forums).

NeilS
21st Feb 2010, 11:01 AM
.....a tiny bit of wash out



Hi Robo Hippy

I'm not familiar with the term 'wash out'. Could you please define it for us?

Thanks

PS - 700 to 800 bowls a year is quite a production rate! Your woodpile must be more like a woodhill....:U

Manuka Jock
21st Feb 2010, 11:38 AM
Hi Robo Hippy

I'm not familiar with the term 'wash out'. Could you please define it for us?


Runout maybe

robo hippy
21st Feb 2010, 11:41 AM
I couldn't figure out how to repost the proper picture, but if you look at Brendon's post # 10 here, the second photo shows a close up of the wheel. It is red in color. If you look closely, you can see the steel on the wheel where the lighter color of the steel is not constant on the wheel as in it gets heavy and light. Wash out to me is this kind of unevenness, kind of like a wash board. When it gets really bad, you have to dress the wheel to get the surface smooth and even. Does this make any sense?

robo hippy

NeilS
21st Feb 2010, 12:10 PM
I couldn't figure out how to repost the proper picture, but if you look at Brendon's post # 10 here, the second photo shows a close up of the wheel. It is red in color. If you look closely, you can see the steel on the wheel where the lighter color of the steel is not constant on the wheel as in it gets heavy and light. Wash out to me is this kind of unevenness, kind of like a wash board. When it gets really bad, you have to dress the wheel to get the surface smooth and even. Does this make any sense?

robo hippy

OK, wash boarding is something we understand down our way. We stopped using them for washing our clothes some time last year, but our extensive national network of gravel roads all become corrugated wash boards between gradings (a sort of dressing).

.....

NeilS
21st Feb 2010, 12:57 PM
While looking for the perfect grinding wheel, I investigated diamond, and the consensus is that diamond is great for carbide, but tends to plug up when grinding the softer steels. CBN is made for grinding steel.



If anyone else is interested in the techy side of Diamond vs CBN wheels, they might like to start with these:

The simple story... GRINDING WHEEL and ABRASIVES BASICS (http://www.georgiagrindingwheel.com/grindingwheels_basics.htm#faq7)

And some interesting bond/diamond/CBN cost and other comparisons.... Society of Manufacturing Engineers (http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/find-articles.pl?&01fe0080&ME&20010206&&SME&#article)


Interesting to note that resin bond is the only one that doesn't need coolant
Resin bond needs more frequent truing
CBN generally more expensive than diamond, but also last better on HSS

The more technical story about CBN.... Using CBN abrasives. - Free Online Library (http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Using+CBN+abrasives-a070037805)

And, for anyone who is insane enough to think they can find the ultimate cheap source of the perfect diamond or CBN grinding wheels, start here:



cbn grinding wheel - cbn grinding wheel products manufacturers on alibaba.com (http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/cbn-grinding-wheel.html) a mere 500 suppliers
diamond grinding wheel - diamond grinding wheel products manufacturers on alibaba.com (http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/DIAMOND_GRINDING_WHEEL.html) a mere 8,400 suppliers




.....

Manuka Jock
21st Feb 2010, 02:32 PM
If anyone else is interested in the techy side of Diamond vs CBN wheels, they might like to start with these:

The simple story... GRINDING WHEEL and ABRASIVES BASICS (http://www.georgiagrindingwheel.com/grindingwheels_basics.htm#faq7)

And some interesting bond/diamond/CBN cost and other comparisons.... Society of Manufacturing Engineers (http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/find-articles.pl?&01fe0080&ME&20010206&&SME&#article)



Interesting to note that resin bond is the only one that doesn't need coolant
Resin bond needs more frequent truing
CBN generally more expensive than diamond, but also last better on HSS

The more technical story about CBN.... Using CBN abrasives. - Free Online Library (http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Using+CBN+abrasives-a070037805)

And, for anyone who is insane enough to think they can find the ultimate cheap source of the perfect diamond or CBN grinding wheels, start here:



cbn grinding wheel - cbn grinding wheel products manufacturers on alibaba.com (http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/cbn-grinding-wheel.html) a mere 500 suppliers
diamond grinding wheel - diamond grinding wheel products manufacturers on alibaba.com (http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/DIAMOND_GRINDING_WHEEL.html) a mere 8,400 suppliers



.....

I'm getting the feeling that the resin/diamond grinding wheel is a cheap trick with an expensive price tag .

I'd still like to know what advice the manufacturers have for truing and dressing these wheels is .
So far my net search has been in vain .

Texian
21st Feb 2010, 06:05 PM
Interesting thread and you all just run on ahead without me. Must continue with the same pathetic stone age wheels that came with the grinder.

rsser
21st Feb 2010, 06:51 PM
LOL.

Marginal diffs make a diff to the pro's and obsessive amateurs.

Plead guilty to the latter.

NeilS
22nd Feb 2010, 11:36 PM
I'm getting the feeling that the resin/diamond grinding wheel is a cheap trick with an expensive price tag .

Yes, an expensive price tag, but diamond abrasives have been used in a wide range of industries (e.g. masonry, mining, glass, ceramics, electronics, metal fabrication and tooling) for decades now. They even use it to cut up the bitumen on the local roads. Bought my first diamond blade 35 years ago. Paid heaps more for it at the time than the cheaper alternatives, but over the full life cycle it was more economical. Many areas of industry have settled on diamond or CBN as the most economical abrasive in the long run for particular applications.

Whether it's economical for an individual woodturner to go with diamond or CBN to sharpen their carbide or HSS tools would depend on how much sharpening they do.

I'd still like to know what advice the manufacturers have for truing and dressing these wheels is .So far my net search has been in vain .

Don't know about this manufacturer, but suggest as a starting point you use mild steel to true CBN/resin bond wheels and silicon carbide for diamond/metal bond wheels. And for dressing use aluminium oxide for both types of wheels.



.....

Manuka Jock
23rd Feb 2010, 06:38 AM
Yes , I have used diamond masonry blades in the construction industry for years and know that they work well .

My issue is with this grinding wheel and the lack of information from it's manufacturer .

NeilS
23rd Feb 2010, 10:04 AM
My issue is with this grinding wheel and the lack of information from it's manufacturer



OK, out of interest I have sent the following email to Woodcraft.

Hi

What is your recommended method for truing and dressing your WoodRiver Diamond Grinding Wheel?

Thanks

Neil
I very much doubt that Woodcraft manufacture the wheels themselves, and may not have an immediate answer. It's probably a new product line for them. But hopefully my email should get them asking their manufacturer/supplier some questions. It will be interesting to see what they come back with as a response.

.....

Manuka Jock
23rd Feb 2010, 11:17 AM
Good one :2tsup:

Be interesting to see their response eh

rsser
23rd Feb 2010, 11:37 AM
Returning to a comment Brendan made about the finer scratch pattern made by the wheel cp Alox.

There are diff stds for rating abrasives and you can get yrself into the poop confusing them. Click (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f155/128613d1265059654-source-1-belt-sander-belts-abrasive-grade-comparison-chart.jpg)

Not saying it happened here; just a heads-up.

NeilS
23rd Feb 2010, 02:50 PM
Returning to a comment Brendan made about the finer scratch pattern made by the wheel cp Alox.

There are diff stds for rating abrasives and you can get yrself into the poop confusing them. Click (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f155/128613d1265059654-source-1-belt-sander-belts-abrasive-grade-comparison-chart.jpg)

Not saying it happened here; just a heads-up.


And, another (http://users.ameritech.net/knives/grits.htm).


.....

issatree
23rd Feb 2010, 09:03 PM
Hi Brendan,
Hope it is going to The You Turn.
issatree.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

NeilS
24th Feb 2010, 09:24 AM
OK, out of interest I have sent the following email to Woodcraft.
Hi

What is your recommended method for truing and dressing your WoodRiver Diamond Grinding Wheel?

Thanks

Neil


Here is the reply received from Woodcraft:


Thank you for your inquiry. The Diamond Grinding Wheel should not need to be dressed. It should run true out of the box.

Thanks,
Sam Murner
Technical Representative
Woodcraft Supply, LLC406 Airport Industrial Park Road
Parkersburg, WV 26102-1686
A fair enough reply. As posted earlier, I would expect these wheels to run true out of the box. Brendan's experience confirms that. If they don't, send them back!

What the reply doesn't include is any acknowledgment that the wheels may become untrue or need dressing during use. As indicated earlier, I think this is a new product line for woodworking suppliers and at this stage this type of info is not in their knowledge banks.

We will all be very interested in Brendan's experience over time to see if truing and/or dressing is required with his particular wheel with our type of use.

We now know that Robo Hippy's experience indicates that it is required with the CBN wheels that he is using.

.....

robo hippy
25th Feb 2010, 05:03 AM
Well, I called up Woodcraft tech help this morning, and asked a guy there. He didn't know and sent me to Bob who knows more. They have been selling these wheels for about a year now, and the issue of cleaning and truing the wheels up after a lot of use hasn't come up yet. I sent him to this forum, and told him he should check out this thread, and he said he would have them look into taking care of the wheels over time. I would expect them to last pretty much like my CBN wheels. Maybe this is another demolition test I need to do on a turning product. So many toys, and so little time.............

robo hippy

brendan stemp
25th Feb 2010, 12:14 PM
Well, the wheel has now had 8 days of regular grinding and I can report the following:
No wash out
No noticeable wear/dishing of the grinding surface
I haven't had to true or clean it
Still grinding beautifully
I can freehand sharpen my gouges on it quite successfully without too many facets
I am still very happy with it - I consider it a significant improvement to my sharpening methods
I have noticed older tools and carbon steel tools produce sparks whereas the good quality HSS tools don't.
I spent about 3 min regrinding a scraper on it and did not have to stop once to cool it down

I do not have any affiliation with Woodcraft Supplies and will not benefit financially from any favourable comments (unless they want to change there minds!)

Ed Reiss
25th Feb 2010, 01:11 PM
sounds encouraging...thanks Brendan

NeilS
25th Feb 2010, 03:05 PM
So, starting to look like a good solution.

Thanks for the update, Brendan

.....

rsser
1st Mar 2010, 04:07 PM
Thanks Brendan.

WOODbTURNER
1st Mar 2010, 04:13 PM
Ditto Brendan. Good stuff.

RETIRED
4th May 2010, 10:23 PM
Had a play with Brendans diamond wheel on the w/e at YouTurn.

Interesting wheel. No sparks off HSS which makes it hard to judge where you are grinding.

The finish on the tool is like chrome plating AND it puts an excellent edge on the tool.

It really needs a jig to overcome the "no feel".

hughie
5th May 2010, 10:53 AM
I
'm getting the feeling that the resin/diamond grinding wheel is a cheap trick with an expensive price tag .

The magic word Jock is 'diamond' and up goes the price.:U

Anyway back to the issue of keeping the wheel true. From my experience with diamond wheels etc because we essentially wear away the medium that hold the diamonds, a time will come for truing.
I found if diamond is the used gently and is the last one in the process it will last a long time between dress ups. The finer the final grind before the diamond the better, if you like consider it to be a polish rather than a grind.

Its like going down through the grits when you sand, it can produce an edge with out a burr, sorta like a scalpel.

brendan stemp
5th May 2010, 10:56 AM
I have now had the wheel in use for over 2 months and am still very happy with it. Things to report:

No dishing/hollowing of the wheel in the middle so no need for dressing the un-dressable.
No need to clean it.
I would have to agree with 's comments, particularly the need for a grinding jig or guide. Tools are difficult to grind freehand.

Would I recommend them? Yes but not as a stand alone wheel. I will still use it in conjunction with a 80grit al. oxide wheel.

Would it be an essential part of the woodturning kit? No, I've done without one for over 20 years so it probably is really for those who need super sharp turning chisels or have a need to spend money. Also great for plane blades standard wood chisels and knives.

It certainly is a definite challenger to the likes of the Tormek water grinding system.

NeilS
15th Oct 2010, 06:34 PM
I have now had the wheel in use for over 2 months and am still very happy with it. Things to report:

No dishing/hollowing of the wheel in the middle so no need for dressing the un-dressable.


Brendan, another 5 months of use now. Is it still holding up OK?

I've been watching the $A head towards parity against the Greenback and thinking that now would be a good time to buy anything that I 'need' from the US.

If Brendan gives the thumbs up I plan to go ahead and get one soon.

I'd be happy to add extra ones (details here (http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/0/25960/WoodRiver-Diamond-Grinding-Wheel-8-120grit.aspx)) to the order if there is any benefit on the cost side of shipping more than one across the pond. I've sent a message off to Woodcraft to see what the shipping cost would be for various quantities. I'll report back in case there is any interest from others.

.

bobsreturn2003
15th Oct 2010, 06:56 PM
okay so where do you get them??? :2tsup:bob

Big Shed
15th Oct 2010, 07:12 PM
Neil, would be interested in joining in, depending on postage costs etc.

NeilS
15th Oct 2010, 07:33 PM
okay so where do you get them??? :2tsup:bob

Details here (http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/0/25960/WoodRiver-Diamond-Grinding-Wheel-8-120grit.aspx)

.

jmk89
15th Oct 2010, 09:17 PM
Details here (http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/0/25960/WoodRiver-Diamond-Grinding-Wheel-8-120grit.aspx)

.

I would also be interested depending on postage

nosnow
15th Oct 2010, 09:44 PM
I would have one to if it postage is ok
Cheers
Rod

WOODbTURNER
15th Oct 2010, 10:18 PM
Get in touch with Brendan as he mentioned that he is thinking of importing similar ones. Got a similar sample one off Brendan and so far is living up to his findings. The finish is very smooth [like chrome as mentioned] and the edge seems to be like you would get off a wet grinder. The beaut thing is that the tool steel cuts much cooler. Like I said, check with Brendan first.

TTIT
15th Oct 2010, 11:14 PM
Brendan, another 5 months of use now. Is it still holding up OK?

I've been watching the head towards parity against the Greenback and thinking that now would be a good time to buy anything that I 'need' from the US.

If Brendan gives the thumbs up I plan to go ahead and get one soon.

I'd be happy to add extra ones (details here (http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/0/25960/WoodRiver-Diamond-Grinding-Wheel-8-120grit.aspx)) to the order if there is any benefit on the cost side of shipping more than one across the pond. I've sent a message off to Woodcraft to see what the shipping cost would be for various quantities. I'll report back in case there is any interest from others.

.Definite interest here. I've been watching this thread closely since day 1 - Love using diamond hones and one of these should take it to the next level :U

rsser
16th Oct 2010, 05:05 AM
Add me to the EOI list too please Neil.

gidgee 1
16th Oct 2010, 06:49 AM
Put me down as an EOI.
Cheers
gidgee 1

bench1holio
16th Oct 2010, 09:12 AM
i reckon id be up for one too pls neil, if all goes well.

NeilS
16th Oct 2010, 10:39 AM
OK, looks like there is going to be some interest in a bulk buy. Eight EOI so far.

Will wait now for comment from Brendan before pushing ahead.

Have received a reply from Woodcraft on shipping. I asked for a quote on quantities from 1 to 5. I capped the numbers at five to keep the total cost below the $1000 import duty free threshold. We could do a second shipment if the numbers go above five and average the cost across the two. Keep in mind that there would also be the postage distribution cost within Australia, unless you can pickup locally, and there is also an exchange rate fee which varies depending on the payment method used (at least 3%).

Here is the the reply from Woodcraft:


Thank you for your interest in Woodcraft. Below we have listed approximate shipping costs and approximate delivery times by the methods available for this inquiry. The delivery time could vary, due to possible delays in customs and destination.
1 x Item #149479 - Your merchandise total, without shipping, is $149.99

FedEx International Priority, 1 - 3 business days, trackable, $80
FedEx International Economy, 4 - 5 business days, trackable, $77
(FedEx shipments are trackable, door to door, by customer)

2 x Item #149479 - Your merchandise total, without shipping, is $299.98

FedEx International Priority, 1 - 3 business days, trackable, $98
FedEx International Economy, 4 - 5 business days, trackable, $95
(FedEx shipments are trackable, door to door, by customer)

3 x Item #149479 - Your merchandise total, without shipping, is $449.97

FedEx International Priority, 1 - 3 business days, trackable, $115
FedEx International Economy, 4 - 5 business days, trackable, $109
(FedEx shipments are trackable, door to door, by customer)

4 x Item #149479 - Your merchandise total, without shipping, is $599.96

FedEx International Priority, 1 - 3 business days, trackable, $131
FedEx International Economy, 4 - 5 business days, trackable, $124
(FedEx shipments are trackable, door to door, by customer)

5 x Item #149479 - Your merchandise total, without shipping, is $749.95

FedEx International Priority, 1 - 3 business days, trackable, $140
FedEx International Economy, 4 - 5 business days, trackable, $134
(FedEx shipments are trackable, door to door, by customer)


The above prices reflect shipping all your items together. If some of your items are on back order and you choose to have them ship separately, the shipping charges would be more.

At this time, none of your items are on back order.

You are responsible for any customs, duties, taxes and clearance, charged by your country.

We accept credit card orders by fax (304-428-8271), Internet (www.woodcraft.com (http://www.woodcraft.com/)), or phone (304-428-4866). To pay with an international money order or a check drawn on a US bank, please mail your order to:

Woodcraft Order Entry
PO Box 1686
Parkersburg, WV 26102-1686
.

Big Shed
16th Oct 2010, 10:44 AM
I have purchased from Woodcraft before and asked for USPS shipping, Flat Rate box.

These would take at least 5 or 6 of these wheels and cost $US40, they are trackable as well and delivered to your door or PO Box.

NeilS
16th Oct 2010, 11:35 AM
I have purchased from Woodcraft before and asked for USPS shipping, Flat Rate box.

These would take at least 5 or 6 of these wheels and cost , they are trackable as well and delivered to your door or PO Box.

Thanks for that info Big Shed. If we could get the cost down to that on the shipping it would make a significant difference to the overall cost.

Not sure why Woodcraft didn't offer that option (I did ask for the non-express/priority method). I'll sound them out now on USPS shipping, Flat Box Rate.

.

Big Shed
16th Oct 2010, 06:57 PM
Just got an email from Woodcraft with several coupon codes for discounts.

For a $500 purchase you can quote a number during checkout and get a $75 discount.

Couldn't find how long this will last though.

Edit:

Found it in the fine print - offer expires 31/10/2010

jmk89
16th Oct 2010, 07:04 PM
Just got an email from Woodcraft with several coupon codes for discounts.

For a $500 purchase you can quote a number during checkout and get a $75 discount.

Couldn't find how long this will last though.

Edit:

Found it in the fine print - offer expires 31/10/2010

Sounds like a plan :D:2tsup:

NeilS
17th Oct 2010, 10:32 AM
Just got an email from Woodcraft with several coupon codes for discounts.

For a $500 purchase you can quote a number during checkout and get a $75 discount.

Couldn't find how long this will last though.

Edit:

Found it in the fine print - offer expires 31/10/2010


Well spotted Big Shed. Every bit helps!

.

bench1holio
17th Oct 2010, 10:36 AM
any word on the usps flat rate boxes neil?

NeilS
17th Oct 2010, 11:53 AM
any word on the usps flat rate boxes neil?

Not yet. They had just gone into their weekend time when I got that message away, so not expecting to hear now for a few days.

.

letzzzgo
17th Oct 2010, 01:03 PM
Neil, If you decide on a 2nd shipment, then please add me to the list.

Cheers John

jmk89
17th Oct 2010, 01:07 PM
Neil
It might be an idea to have one package to go to say Sydney and another to Adelaide. That should make the postage a bit less for the on-postage. I'm happy to be the Sydney distributor if you decide to go that way.

NeilS
17th Oct 2010, 03:37 PM
Neil
It might be an idea to have one package to go to say Sydney and another to Adelaide. That should make the postage a bit less for the on-postage. I'm happy to be the Sydney distributor if you decide to go that way.

Thanks for the offer jmk89.

If we end up with two packages it's a good idea to land them strategically in relation to the distribution list. May well be that Adelaide isn't ideally located either.

.

Gil Jones
17th Oct 2010, 04:24 PM
Fred,
The Woodcraft discount deal ends 10/31/2010.
Gil

Big Shed
17th Oct 2010, 04:27 PM
That's what I said, 31/10/2010:D

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/diamond-grinding-wheel-113355/index6.html#post1223122

brendan stemp
18th Oct 2010, 09:14 AM
I am so happy with them I have made (serious) inquiries about importing them myself. I have made contact with a company that makes them (yes, in China) and have had two samples sent to me; 6" and 8". I am happy with the samples (the 6" is a bonus for those that have a 6" grinder) but need to make more inquiries about widths (the two I was sent are 20 mm wide) and arbour hole sizes. I also need to find the courage to stick my financial neck out and take the gamble on them being popular enough (I am a poor woodturner after all) but have been bouyed by the interest shown form a number of people. It was closely compared to the Tormek on the weekend at the Melb TWWS particularly the bevel finsih and it compares very favourably I thought. Stay tuned, I am actively working on it.

jmk89
18th Oct 2010, 09:20 AM
So it might be worthwhile our holding off a bulk purchase from Woodcraft if Brendan is going to import them?

TTIT
18th Oct 2010, 11:47 AM
So it might be worthwhile our holding off a bulk purchase from Woodcraft if Brendan is going to import them?Yup - I can hold off a while - doubt that the dollar will drop again overnight :shrug:

rsser
18th Oct 2010, 12:01 PM
The Chinese are showing signs of responding to criticism of their artificial devaluation of their currency.

If they do jump and revalue upwards the dung will hit the rotary cooling device world wide.

They have good reasons not to, that said, but the pressure is on. Biggest consumer market for their goods: US. Biggest US creditor: China.

Gotta laugh. Communism now has a major role in propping up the world's biggest capitalist economy.

(Sorry for the diversion; will go back now to domestic repairs and clean-ups).

NeilS
18th Oct 2010, 12:37 PM
Yup - I can hold off a while - doubt that the dollar will drop again overnight :shrug:


So it might be worthwhile our holding off a bulk purchase from Woodcraft if Brendan is going to import them?

Agreed.

As I said in another thread, I would prefer to support a local supplier and only got into this exercise because there wasn't one.

Brendan, do you have any feeling for how long it will be before you will have an offering?

On the sizes, there would definitely need to be a 5/8" arbor option, with or without bushing, given that many bench grinders sold here in Australia have a 5/8" shaft.

If the price was attractive, I could live with a 20mm wide wheel, but would prefer a 25mm width. I've assumed that the Woodriver wheel was 1" wide, although it hasn't said so.

On the currency side, as long as the Renminbi is tied to the US$ it doesn't make much difference whether we are buying from US or China. As long as the A$ is rising against the US$ all Aussie importers will be laughing. However, should the US ever get its way in getting the Chinese to appreciate the yuan then... what Ern said... :o

.

rsser
18th Oct 2010, 12:45 PM
Yep, 1" wide and 5/8 arbour is what I'm looking for.

And I'm more than willing to support a local retailer.

That said, it's a rapidly shifting game $ wise.

Big Shed
18th Oct 2010, 01:03 PM
Also bear in mind that the $US75 discount from Woodcraft runs out on 31/10/2010 (10/31/2010:rolleyes:).

This amounts to a $US10-$US15 discount per wheel, or around 7-10%.

rsser
18th Oct 2010, 01:32 PM
'Bird in the hand' is my view at this stage.

Early adopters in Aus will generate a demand momentum for a local importer.

Jim Carroll
18th Oct 2010, 02:13 PM
After chatting with Brendan over the weekend and seeing what the wheel will do it should be ok.

He now has to go back to china and let them know exactly what it is he wants in both the 150mm and 200mm size.

We agreed that the 20mm width is not suitable and that a 25 or 40mm wide wheel would be better.

What may frighten brendan is the MOQ that they put on the product.

There is definatly a demand but the order may be a quantity that would last for some years and the problem is that once you sell a wheel you will not see that customer again.

If brendan goes ahead with this it could still be 3-4 months before he has the goods in hand.

robo hippy
18th Oct 2010, 02:19 PM
I guess if you buy from China, it doesn't make any difference, but there are 3 sizes of US postal flat rate boxes. The large one is 12 by 12 by 5 1/2 inches, with a max weight of 20 pounds. I did send one box to Australia, and it seemed like it was less than $40. In the US, it is $14. They do go airmail.

robo hippy

WOODbTURNER
18th Oct 2010, 03:44 PM
The "diamond" wheel I got off Brendan is 200mm x 20mm x 5/8"hole. It fits and runs true as. The 20mm width is OK as I use a Kelton/McNaughton sharpening jig. A 25mm or 40mm would be good but the cost will go up too.

NeilS
18th Oct 2010, 04:02 PM
I guess if you buy from China, it doesn't make any difference, but there are 3 sizes of US postal flat rate boxes. The large one is 12 by 12 by 5 1/2 inches, with a max weight of 20 pounds. I did send one box to Australia, and it seemed like it was less than $40. In the US, it is $14. They do go airmail.

robo hippy

Thanks for that info Robo.

.