separate machines vs combinations

[MrRob]

Hi all,
I am fairly new to woodworking, beyond renovations at home.
But by watching this forum there appears to be a number of people who have been at it awhile, and have developed a wealth of experience.
I went to the working with wood show in Canberra on the weekend and checked out some of the equipment there. Needless to say I came away somewhat confused as to what to get in setting up a home workshop.
I am trying to decide whether I am better served getting separate pieces of equipment or one of the combination machines. I saw the Hammer one from Austria, very nice. But I also like the Jet supersaw and some of JET's other gear. One disadvantage I could see right away is the weight of the Hammer, not something to "put away" after a days play as it were.
I am trying to ignore cost in this question, if I can "really" justify something to myself I will bend the plastic.
What is the considered opinion of those here?

Thanks in advance.

Rob.

[Zed]

How much room you got ?

if you do a search you'll see a plethora of discussion and arguement on this topic. if your a weekender and just want to potter around you may want to consider the triton range.

my personal opinion is that seperate machines are better but they take up lotsa room (not the machines themselves as such but the areas around them - infeed outfeed etc...)

jet is the best taiwanese brand IMHO - or you could go for older stuff too.

welcome.

[silentC]

Yep, I prefer separate machines. I find myself going from the jointer to the tablesaw to the thicknesser frequently and, having worked with combo machines before, I find having to change setup each time a pain. This is down to the way I work, I'm not disciplined enough to mill all my stock first.

Combos take up less room but are a lot heavier. You can put individual machines on wheels and move them around to compensate for the space problem. You might have trouble getting one of those big suckers onto a mobile base.

If your combo breaks down, you're totally out of action, with separate machines you can keep going to a certain degree.

Just a few thoughts on it. This argument has been had over and over and you'll find it all here. At the end of the day you'll have to make up your own mind because you'll find that the people with combos will have as many points (or more) in favour as I might have against.

[echnidna]

Combo's main advantage is where space and money is limited.
Its a real big pain to have one part of your machine setup for a particular process then you need a different machine so you lose your setup when you are ready to go through the first process again.
hope that makes sense.

[Marc]

After some searching, conceded some years back, I came to the conclusion that combination machines of comparable quality, cost more than the sum of the separate machines.
Furthermore, if you spent $7k to $15k for your combo, you will have to think long and hard to upgrade if you ever do so.
Separate machines will allow a much more light hearted approach to upgrade one at the time, pick some bargains at an auction, second hand etc.
Try to do that with a combo, when there is one at an auction you must be careful not to be run over by the stampeed of people bidding for it.

[John Saxton]

Mr Rob,speaking from a perspective of one who has a combo machine I'd say that if space were not a consideration for you then certainly I would promote the individual machine option giving you the freedom you to site them according to your work parameters.

However if space is restricted and you do need that spare area for a make-up bench or construction area then for your $$$ certainly a combination can make it worthwhile.
A point here is that I bought mine second hand for $5000 with 3 individual 2hp motors giving access to 7 functions which I couldn't see me doing and getting the same robust individual functions for the same amount ...certainly not with the specs involved.
Tooling for the same can be costly but by judicious use as with any machinery you can get a lot of work out them.

I've had my combo for a number of years without any problem with its workings and it being the centre of my workshop it gets a lot of use admittedly I have on occasion had to go back and cut another section on a piece I'VE stuffed up but it becomes second nature and no different than if having used an individual machine with its own settings having been changed for a different cut.
MOBILE but heavy and can be moved around no problems if need be

There are second hand dealers that deal in good machinery no matter what your decision and you do not have to lay out major $$$$ that effects your budget to get set up.

Cheers :)

[MajorPanic]

When you do, say thicknessing & jointing on a few boards at once you will be apprecitative of separate machines. I worked with a few combination machines & it's such a pain in the arze to change from one to the other & back again while you are on one job. Just for repeatability separate machines have no equal ;)

If time is of little consequence to you or room is at a premium with NO HOPE of expansion then concider a combination machine but remember it's a compromise.

This is just my experence & my 2 cents worth :D

[vsquizz]

Just MHO in addition to the above. It depends how you work through your jobs. I worked a Felder combo for 3 months and found once I was organsised it was a joy to use.

The Hammer machine you looked at (Prob C3-31 or 41) will go from thicknessing to table saw without changing diddly squat so it pays to ask questions of the sales types about what you can and can't do. For example the Hammer wont take a stacked Dadoe head, pretty much stopped me from ordering one, but this may not matter for some.

Cost is also a factor, a Combo Can save you a lot of money on purchase and set up.

I have never owned a combo but started out (like most) with a marginal budget and worked my way through all sorts of all 2 nd hand stuff because thats the way I Had to do it not because I wanted to. If I had the money I'd stick to the European stuff but its a lot of money for a hobby.

Cheers

[joez]

Mr Rob,

If you are interested in more info on Combo Machines there are user groups for Felder/Hammer, Minimax and Robland on yahoo, become a member of the groups and chat to the users about them.

Do your research and either way if you buy good quality equipment you cant go wrong.

An interesting thing I have just been told is that David Marks now has a minimax combo :

http://www.woodworking.org/Exchange/Forum2/HTML/015326.html

PS I own a Minimax combo and love it. If you have any questions about the Minimax Machine feel free to message me.



Joe

[ernknot]

I thought about combo machines initially but changed my mind when you think about the set up changes you are going to make and if the thing breaks down you can't do anything. You will regret buying a combo unit as you progress with your ww skills. I am setting up a workshop and have purchased all separate machines. Think ahead, how much will you be using the combo in 2 to 3 years time?
ernknot

[Termite]

Just read a review in the Australian Wood... about 3 different combination planer/thicknessers. Now these were high quality machines worth in the 3-5 grand range, but I wouldn't trade my 500 buck planer and 600 buck thicknesser for any one of them.
It's a bit like trying to build a fishing rod that will catch sharks and trout - it will do both but not as well as one designed for a specific purpose.
Well thats my 2 cents worth + GST less tax and super deductions + holiday loading.
Kind regards
Termite
Well I would trade, but then I'd sell it and go and buy a better planer and a better thicknesser.