Shafted by another Forum Member

[NeilS]

And, would you believe, this is not the first time this has happened to me on this Forum!

First time it was Frank&Earnest.... as a result of our discussions on carbide tip tools.

This time it was Hughie, and started by Ern.

It began with Ern selling me his Munro hollowing head. The $370 price tag for the full Munro hollower kit was a bit steep for my pocket and Ern very kindly offered to sell me the articulated head off his for a fraction of the cost of the full shooting match. All I had to do was find or make make a replacement shaft.

None of my current shafts worked. Also, tried to buy a replacement shaft form Rolly Munro (via Soren Berger), but no joy there.

I manage to do a bit of woodturning, in my own fashion, but when it comes to metal work I'm a real dummy. So I started to think of who I know that makes turning tool shafts, lots of them. Yep, Hughie.

So I shoot an email off to him to see if he can help. No probs, I'll do it straight away Hughie replies, just give us the dimensions. Calipers go into action and a little investigation on the Web reveals that the big Munro hollower is now being offered with a more substantial shaft as an option. I like that idea. A few more emails and we settle on a 20mm diam x 17" stainless steel shaft with tapered end to marry with 16mm Munro head. Sounds perfect.

Then down to the hard business of settling on a price. Wood blanks, not dollars, seems to be the currency of choice. So a few more emails and that's done.

Shaft arrives. Beautiful piece of work that is up to Hughie's usual high standard.

Pic 1: Ern's Munro head... looks like new to me
Pic 2: Hughie's shaft.... beautiful work, should I frame or use it?
Pic 3: Shaft taper....swish
Pic 4: Handle.... why so long?... balance!
Pic 5: Balance...just about right
Pic 6: All together

No wonder I feel well a truly shafted......:U

Thanks, Ern & Hughie

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[Mr Brush]

Great post :2tsup:

Of course, the title will make sure it gets the attention it deserves.....:D

A big :2tsup:to Ern and Hughie too !!

[Cliff Rogers]

I've been shafted by hughie too.... a couple of times. :2tsup:

[Mr Brush]

Do we have a 'serial shafter' on our hands??? :oo: :D

Victim 1: "I were just standing there, next to me lathe, next thing I knew I'd been shafted...."

[BobR]

Got me in! :2tsup:

[Ed Reiss]

Well, Neil...if ya' gotta' get the shaft you couldn't have picked a better way :2tsup:

[rsser]

LOL.

W/turning proctology?

That's creative prob solving Neil; nice work. And thumbs up to Hughie as well.

I'm delighted to have been able to help.

No, the head got little use. Shortly after acquiring it I fell in love with the Proforme (maxi).

One tip that I did pick up from forumites was to put a paper 'washer' under the cap when still new to increase the gap. OTOH I did a deal of cutter sharpening which wld had have a similar effect.

I still use the Munro handle and shaft but with the Munro scraper head which I find effective and comfortable (paw permitting). Far better than the Woodcut Proforme scraper.

[artme]

Great post!!:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup: Provided me with a laugh. Good on Ern and Hughie.:):)

[Sawdust Maker]

great post nice work everybody :2tsup:

I've also been shafted by Hughie! along with rested :p
For revenge I got him well and truly motored :D

[NeilS]

And here is the result of the previous shafting from Frank. As you can see, twice! Just haven't managed to handle the second one....:rolleyes:

That tool does some real serious damage to green bowl blanks!

Thanks for the help with that, Frank.

An to Cliff for the tip, literally.

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[NeilS]

W/turning proctology?



...and, not a rubber glove in sight.....:U

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[hughie]

damn fine looking handle and it all goes together very well. :2tsup:

I should add the reciprocating gift was a large box of blanks, very well prepared, dried and rough turned.

A win-win all round. :2tsup:

[TTIT]

:B Got me too! :B Crikey Neil that's a whole lotta handle. Good collaboration by all :2tsup:

[Sawdust Maker]

Nice handle there Neil
how long is the whole tool?

[Jim Carroll]

Neil nice resolution to your prblems.

Couple of critisisms.

The reason rolly uses a hollow handle is when you do not need so much overhang from the tool you can push the bar into the handle and work more comfortably.

The shape of the handle will be awkward when moving your hands along as you have a wide variety of diameters which will restrict movement and with the tool tucked into your sides may rub the ribs a bit.

A smooth straight handle is more user freindly and with the rubber grip allows you to hang on easier.

Cant remember seeing the short link for the munro there but use that as much as possible and only use the long articulation when doing deep undercuts, just gives more tool control and less tendancy for the tool to try and rotate out of your hand.

Just had another look and you have the short link so do away with the long one till really needed.

Practice on vase type shapes to get the feel of how the tool works.

[Frank&Earnest]

Gee, Neil, did you have to make me s**t myself with your first line? :oo::D

[wheelinround]

Neil nice resolution to your prblems.

Couple of critisisms.

The reason rolly uses a hollow handle is when you do not need so much overhang from the tool you can push the bar into the handle and work more comfortably.

The shape of the handle will be awkward when moving your hands along as you have a wide variety of diameters which will restrict movement and with the tool tucked into your sides may rub the ribs a bit. I would think having made the handle he'd have done so to suit his needs. I guess from descriptions he's turning vases norrow neck vessles a large handle would only hinder.
:? If he's hollowing hows he going to have the tool at his hip Jim.......standing on a box maybe:;

A smooth straight handle is more user freindly and with the rubber grip allows you to hang on easier. Not so what of hex shaped handles which give better grip and ease of turning :rolleyes:

Cant remember seeing the short link for the munro there but use that as much as possible and only use the long articulation when doing deep undercuts, just gives more tool control and less tendancy for the tool to try and rotate out of your hand.

Just had another look and you have the short link so do away with the long one till really needed.

Practice on vase type shapes to get the feel of how the tool works.

Great work all involved the ideal tool is one that best suit the person using it and the job at hand.

[NeilS]

Neil nice resolution to your prblems.

Couple of critisisms.

Any criticisms of the more constructive kind always gladly received...:U

The reason rolly uses a hollow handle is when you do not need so much overhang from the tool you can push the bar into the handle and work more comfortably.

Sounds like a good design feature, if that is what you have. I didn't, so went with what I could. I'm sure I would have been very happy with the genuine article if I had managed to go that way.

The shape of the handle will be awkward when moving your hands along as you have a wide variety of diameters which will restrict movement and with the tool tucked into your sides may rub the ribs a bit.

A smooth straight handle is more user freindly and with the rubber grip allows you to hang on easier.

Hmm... I have almost a dozen long handled tools of mixed parentage (pic attached). Some are straight, some profiled (liked this one, yet to be added to the rack), and some are down right twisted....:roll:. Can't say I find a lot of difference between them, but then that might reflect more on the user than the tools...:U.

I'm sure you are right about the rubber grip, just haven't had any experience of them myself.

The advantage of those that do have pre-marked hand positions, all carefully located for me, is that I grasp and start using them in the primary positions as I pick them up and and then can feel for any secondary positions I might need. Seems to work for me, but I also get along OK with the straight handled ones as well.

As for the long handles, here I was thinking that bruising was from my wife nudging me in the ribs during the night....:U

Cant remember seeing the short link for the munro there but use that as much as possible and only use the long articulation when doing deep undercuts, just gives more tool control and less tendancy for the tool to try and rotate out of your hand.

Just had another look and you have the short link so do away with the long one till really needed.

Yep, just had them all there to keep them together in one place. Don't expect to get to use the long link very often. May also have to add a side handle when I do.

Practice on vase type shapes to get the feel of how the tool works.

Thanks for that suggestion, and the above comments, Jim.




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[Jim Carroll]

Robert No mention of hips here.

Ribs in this case.

Neil you will find that you do not hold this in the traditional way with one hand on the tool rest and the other further down the handle.

You generally grasp the tool with the right hand near the ferrule of the tool then use your arm to support the tool and tuck into your body. You then use your other hand to help control the depth of cut with this hand on top of the bar on the toolrest

This helps give control over the twisting motion and the natural pulling of the tool, if used in the tradional way you will need very strong shoulders and arms to hold the tool.

Also keep the cutting tip in line with the bar of the tool as this also helps stop twisting, the more it is articulated past there the more of a tendancy for it to pull downwards on the cutting tip.

You may find the side handle restricts movement of the tool as you generally use the top cover as a bevel and rotate the tool till the cut comes into play.

[rsser]

Yep.

An exception to Jim's last rule is when the inside has started to get rough (out of round, divots etc) in which case you need to rotate the cutter up to the wood proud of the cap, so the cap doesn't just follow the existing surface.

Sound right Jim?

[NeilS]

Neil you will find that you do not hold this in the traditional way with one hand on the tool rest and the other further down the handle.

You generally grasp the tool with the right hand near the ferrule of the tool then use your arm to support the tool and tuck into your body. You then use your other hand to help control the depth of cut with this hand on top of the bar on the toolrest

This helps give control over the twisting motion and the natural pulling of the tool, if used in the tradional way you will need very strong shoulders and arms to hold the tool.

Also keep the cutting tip in line with the bar of the tool as this also helps stop twisting, the more it is articulated past there the more of a tendancy for it to pull downwards on the cutting tip.

You may find the side handle restricts movement of the tool as you generally use the top cover as a bevel and rotate the tool till the cut comes into play.

OK, Jim, thanks for that advice.

Sounds similar to the way I use my Olands when deep hollowing. The difference being that the Olands don't get much rotational twist as the cutter is fully in alignment with the shaft.

Ern has also passed on to me Rolly's instructions, including how to hold the tool, which illustrates the technique you have described.

I'll give it a spin and see how I go.

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[NeilS]

Finally got to giving the 'Bitsa' a spin and I must say that Ern's Munro head and Hughie's shaft are working a treat, thanks Ern and Hughie.

As foreshadowed by Ern, I'm finding the only drawback, besides the occasional clogging in wet wood, is its cutting action in the bottom area of hollow forms. As Jim advised, the head has to be dropped down a little to get a bite (by rotating the handle), which works well along the sides but not in the bottom areas. You don't have any way of dropping the nose while working in that area when working through a 2 or 3" opening.

For those bottom areas I had to go back to my hand-forged ring bit tool (made from concrete nails) or Hughie's Ripsnorter. I'm also thinking about a Woodcut Proforme which would cut in that bottom area like the ring tool. The ring bit tool works quite well, but I seem to snap them a bit too frequently. Tempering them just right is a bit hit and miss with me, more often than not I miss...:( .

I did add a side handle to my Bitsa.

136328

This was a bike accessory that my kids just had to have for their bikes about twenty five years ago (the fad didn't last for long so it's nice to eventually get something useful back... :rolleyes:). I had two versions to choose from. I chose the curly version as it was in a more comfortable position. It worked quite well and is an idea that I might use on some of my other deep hollowing tools. Jim's concern about the side handle getting in the way of the toolrest wasn't an issue as the shaft is sufficiently long to not be a problem at the depths I'm working at (30-40cm).

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