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SimonP
22nd February 2010, 10:44 PM
YACHT - THUNDERBIRD 26 Foot SAIL BOAT - eBay Sail, Boats, Boats, Watercraft, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 27-Feb-10 22:08:55 AEDST) (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/YACHT-THUNDERBIRD-26-Foot-SAIL-BOAT_W0QQitemZ280468116999QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Boats?hash=item414d33d607)

Boatmik
23rd February 2010, 07:45 AM
The Thunderbird (affectionately called the thunderbox) was a scourge of racing fleets in the 70s. It is a very fast boat in many conditions. A couple have had success racing offshore with appropriate mods and safety gear - but most were used for harbour racing.

In the right conditions and kept light without too much gear aboard they will scare many similarly sized modern yachts with their performance.

They do require an active sailing approach. The sails are quite big for the size of boat so a crew that can continually trim sails to keep the boat on its feet are necessary for best performance.

MIK

Boatmik
23rd February 2010, 07:49 AM
The ad mentions a "lead keel". From memory the keel was a metal plate with a bulb at the bottom - can anyone remember?

Home of the Thunderbird Sailboat (http://www.thunderbirdsailing.org/)

http://www.thunderbirdsailing.org/Photo_Gallery/p1.jpg

SimonP
24th February 2010, 11:12 PM
There's a great article on the Thunderbird in "Wooden Boat" mag August 1999. The American Plywood Assoc ran a comp in 1957, won by Ben Seaborn with a modification of his Sierra design.
They found the hard chine was an asset rather than liability, and there wasn't much that could beat it.
It's looks copped criticism: "looks like they forgot to take it out of the box". Even the builder of the prototype, Ed Hoppen admitted that it "was kind of funny looking" Maybe this is where they got the nickname "thunderbox"
The original keels were cast iron, but many variations were created by home builders, so lead keels wouldn't be out of the question, I guess.

Landlubber
25th February 2010, 04:30 PM
Let it rest in peace.......

SimonP
25th February 2010, 06:37 PM
Sacrilege!
This is one thread where faith in the resurrection must be maintained.
Even the sunken ones could be of interest to submariners.
Nothing but a good keel hauling under a barnacled hull and flogging round the fleet for you, my friend!

Landlubber
27th February 2010, 04:50 PM
Simon,

Sometimes it is better to let em go to the graveyard, just because it is old and made of wood does not mean it has any worth.

WORTH...by that I mean that it has say, historic value, Personal value, built in a masterly way, not necessasily by a master, made from rare or exotic materials, but basically, will be worthwhile restoring because it will be a special object after ll the work has been completed and someone can continue to maintain it and pass it on to future generations.

Old ply, stinking mouldy, rotten plywood boats are just simply ####.

But I do love your enthusiasm mate, I sincerely mean that, it is nice that there are still people that care.

SimonP
28th February 2010, 12:02 AM
I took my 40 year old timber Hartley TS16 down to Sandy Point (Vic) a few months ago. An old chap came up and reminisced about a Hartley he had built with his son in the 60's.
When I asked if he still had it, he sighed and said that his son had donated it to a yacht club Geelong way. They had neglected it, and finally burnt it on the beach during a club function.

I know what you're saying, but something dies when an old boat is scrapped.

Landlubber
4th March 2010, 04:08 PM
Yep, true, all the worms inside it..........

....keeps the little suckers out of a decent boat.

SimonP
4th March 2010, 06:01 PM
Landlubber, I looked up your profile. It said: "Landlubber has not made any friends yet"
Now I know why!
(mind you, my profile says the same - oh well)

Landlubber
4th March 2010, 06:21 PM
...nor has he licked any arses.........

...I am not here to make friends......seems someone doesn't like any one saying some old wooden boats are crap...so be it.

SimonP
4th March 2010, 06:33 PM
Well some-one thought the Thunderbird was worth $700, because it sold after 35 bids.
Let's hope they post either their successes or failures on this forum.
I have to admit I wouldn't have bought it, but some of the "sow's ears" on this forum have ended up as silk purses, by people with more skill and dedication than I possess.

My own boat was resurrected by some "wayward" youths with the help of the Rye Yacht Club, then relaunched by Jesse Martin (of "Lionheart" round-the-world fame) in 2003 as "YOT" - for Youth Out There.
She was a basket case which ended up a bit special, for me and my family anyway. The "worth" you mentioned earlier, like beauty, lies in the eye of the beholder.

watson
4th March 2010, 06:40 PM
...nor has he licked any arses.........

...I am not here to make friends......seems someone doesn't like any one saying some old wooden boats are crap...so be it.

Considering this is a Wooden Boat Forum..with the express purpose of Rescue & Adoption, there is little wonder that nobody is saying that.

Noel Watson
Administrator

Landlubber
5th March 2010, 08:03 AM
Well sorry if I stood on peoples toes fellas, I fully understand that this is a restoration section, and also understand the requirements of such.

I am a 60 year old boatbuilder, so speak with some understanding of the game.

I have stated that I do love the enthusiasm of those that restore old boats (which is my speciality by the way), but I am also a realist...not a dreamer as some may be.

Surely it is part of the yin and yang of life that just because it is old does not make it good....there are so many good projects that could be revived without wasting time on something that has no intrinsic value, either dead or alive. I have spent about 1/3rd of my working life helping those that cannot afford to do up their boats, this is because of my love for both boats and the people that try to do the right thing by them.

One mans meat is another mans poison, yes, but I was NOT referring to any person when I made my comments regarding old worthless boats, if someone actually owned it and wanted help then I would be here to help them. It was my intention to help the unknown potential purchaser to avoid the costs and dissapointments of buying something that is both beyond their financial controls and also their ability to comprehend the amount of work required in such a project, before they dive into the deep end. (That does not mean I would aslo have advised them to count their losses also....I see life in black and white, ya got ta know when to hold em and know when ta fold em......I am not sorry if that offends someone, as I am obviously NOT politically correct....)

I do not see why I should be personally attacked because my opinions may be different from those that are seeing these projects through rose coloured glasses.

Boatmik
5th March 2010, 09:37 AM
Howdy,

A better way to put it landlubber is that everyone who is interested in buying one of these boats should get someone with some knowledge and experience to look at them before purchase if they don't have it. This might even require paying someone to have a look as it might save much more money than the cost of an inspection or survey down the line.

A lot of the people here do have the experience to judge for themselves because they have real experience of building and restoring boats already. However I think your post does serve a useful function for those who just drop in by accident and might not have the context of most of the regulars here.

To say a boat is no good without seeing it is as silly as saying it is a great buy without seeing it. Nobody is saying it is a great buy!

YOu are right to take the opposite viewpoint - by the way - it is likely that it will be in pretty bad condition. But maybe not.

Only looking will tell.

I have added a paragraph to the first post
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f242/old-classic-boat-rescue-adoption-112106/#post1098836
saying that people should get advice before purchasing.

In this case, with the boat going for $700 I won't cry much if the person has blown their dough. This is true of most of the other boats that have been listed here too. But if they know what they are doing or get the right advice they might have a very nice boat for very little money.

There are several examples of this on the various pages of this forum including stories of those who did not do their homework.

But all we are doing here is mentioning the boats - most people will just do a little dreaming and not be ready or willing to put hard cash up for something that has reached a very low price - often for obvious reasons.

But amongst the stream of derelicts and wrecks there will certainly be a few good or interesting boats to be found.

Best wishes
Michael

Landlubber
5th March 2010, 10:14 AM
Yep, point taken and understood.

I'm just a grumpy old man....... (but I do luv de ol boat or too)

Landlubber
5th March 2010, 10:19 AM
Now here's a good idea, maybe it can be implimented here too.

Family BoatBuilding: A Free Opportunity for Wooden Kit Producers - Boat Design Forums (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/family-boatbuilding-free-opportunity-wooden-kit-producers-31749.html)

I am sure there "wood" be interest.

PAR
5th March 2010, 10:45 AM
John, are you off your medication again . . .

In the Lubber's defense, I see about 100 of these types of boats each year. 99% of them are destined to occupy a slot at the local land fill soon. Many of these could be "saved", but they're just not worth it for lots of different reasons. Most of these yachts are just long past help and should be given an honorable burial.

On the other hand, every once and a while, not very often, but often enough for me to keep my eyes open, a "special" case is found. It will have some sort of significance, be this historical, a notable previous owner, maybe an enviable racing history or some movie star's daughter was conceived on it's foredeck. Who knows, but it's usually a prerequisite for a restoration. Sometimes, you just get lucky and find a nearly unmolested example of a rare breed.

I once found a 50 year old runabout that had been barn stored for 35 years. It had been used a few seasons, then passed through a few owners, that had little interest (son's of the guy that originally owned it), eventually being parked in a dirt floor barn, with an army tent tossed over it. I got it for $500 less the outboard which they wanted to sell for more then it was worth. The boat was one of about 12 of it's kind and the only survivor not in a museum.

Of course this sort of thing only happens, after you've looked over many hundreds of boats, that were little more then a place for the queen bee to hang her hive (literally). If you know what you're looking for, more often then not a bargain can be had and the good stuff removed, while the rest is cut up and swept into the burn pile. I've bought $500 boats just for the sails and winches, but buyer beware, you better have a good idea what you're getting.

In the end, I think most of these Ebay finds which seem to be "good deals", are probably boats that the owner couldn't sell with a sign on it at the local marina. In other words, the folks in the area that are looking for a boat like it, passed this one over and now it's on Ebay, so select wisely and if much money is involved a survey is a must, not to mention will be required for insurance.

Landlubber
5th March 2010, 10:50 AM
...spoken like a true maven PAR.....

by the way, the Chris Craft I discussed with you previously has still not been touched, the owner is "considering" his options, either way, it is unfortunately going to be an expensive toy for him.

PAR
5th March 2010, 10:51 AM
Fed X it to me and I'll give you a quote . . . :roll:

Boatmik
5th March 2010, 10:59 AM
Yap, That's what often happens. I would much rather an owner "consider their options" and get some advice than think that the restoration or repair starts with pulling everything apart.

Best wishes
MIK

Boatmik
5th March 2010, 01:19 PM
Do any of the participants in the above discussion about whether to restore or dispose of mind if I put together an edited version and add it to the lead post for the section.

It does canvas the two sides quite well and both sides made some good statements.

MIK

Landlubber
5th March 2010, 01:41 PM
MIK,

Please do, up to yourself, it needs to be realised.

(and I have had my pills for today thanks PAR, it was the red ones wasn't it)

SimonP
5th March 2010, 09:40 PM
Good idea Mik. You made a good point that old boats cannot be promoted as worthwhile to restore without an inspection, but neither can a boat be condemned.

Unless people know about these boats from a site like this, some good boats that could have had a new lease of life will end up on the scrap heap. I certainly don't know enough about restoration to filter out all the one's that are "no-hopers" (although I've seen plenty that I haven't posted for this reason)

All I ask is: please don't anyone shoot the messenger, or no-one will want to post any boats!

PAR
6th March 2010, 12:16 AM
Selective and edited plagiarism is always a crowd pleaser, go for it Mik.

Hawk
11th March 2010, 12:52 PM
Some of us may have come to that realisation that, although it may have been faster/cheaper to scrap the boat and start again (and maybe get a better finished result) we actually enjoy the process of restoring something that already exists. :U

(Says he who's spent the past 18 months restoring a boat instead of finishing the one that he started. :doh:)