A Eureka moment [Archive] - Woodwork Forums

Gwhat

23rd February 2010, 02:15 PM

Hi all Incra enthusiasts;

After a very complex re-engineering process Incra's LS 17" and LS 32" Positioners are now available in full METRIC.

The new leadscrew has a precise 1.00mm pitch, a micro-adjust with audible detents at 1/20th of a mm, a new engraved Stainless master scale, all fences & stops are upgraded with 1.00mm pitch racks, plus the Master Reference Guide has been completely revised and now has 26 METRIC specific templates.

Whiteside Router Bits have worked with Incra to develop a new boxed set of bits around which the new Joinery Templates have been designed.

Our stock is in Australia and will be available to ship as of Monday March 1st.:U

To pre-empt a few questions;
Yes! an Conversion Kit is available for existing LS 17 & 32 owners. :2tsup:
No! A METRIC LS 25 version will not be available. :((

METRIC Router Table Systems can be seen HERE (http://www.woodworksupplies.com.au/category16_1.htm)
METRIC Table Saw Systems can be seen HERE (http://www.woodworksupplies.com.au/category28_1.htm)

If you have any questions about this exciting development give us a call.:?

Regards

Grahame

dedward.rocks

24th February 2010, 12:39 PM

This was almost exciting until I read the bit about there NOT being a conversion kit for the LS25. sigh

Gwhat

24th February 2010, 01:37 PM

This was almost exciting until I read the bit about there NOT being a conversion kit for the LS25. sigh

Hi

The LS 25 is a model that was developed to help US woodworkers through their rite of passage being the building a dovetailed blanket box, sales of 25's in the METRIC world don't warrant tooling up for the M series 25's.
Please make sure that you do have a LS 25 as there can be some confusion as the LS 17 positioner measures 25 ½” overall whilst the LS 25 measures 33 ½” checking the stainless steel scale is the best bet.
The alternatives are;

Buy a LS 17-M positioner only $395.00 + the new Metric Master Reference Guide w/- 26 METRIC Templates $52.50 + Metric Racks and Scales for the fence & stop $30.00

Buy a LS 32-M positioner only $465.00 + the new Metric Master Reference Guide w/- 26 METRIC Templates $52.50 + Metric Racks and Scales for the fence & stop $30.00

We're sorry the 25 can't be upgraded but it was a classic example of bigger not always being best!!

Regards

Grahame

Gwhat

25th February 2010, 10:22 AM

Hi all Incra enthusiasts;

To pre-empt a few questions;
Yes! an Conversion Kit is available for existing LS 17 & 32 owners. :2tsup:
No! A METRIC LS 25 version will not be available. :((

Regards

Grahame

Hi Incraites,

A few more questions have been asked;

What's in the upgrade kit? It contains a Metric Lead Screw & Micro Adjust knob, a new half nut for the clamping mechanism. New sawtooth racks for the fence(s) + stop and METRIC fence scales. Plus the rewritten Master Reference Library and 26 templates.
Why are the templates new? The Incra system works on the Incremental movement of the fence, thus 1.00mm increments require templates that work in 1.00mm increments. There are 26 METRIC templates supplied.
Will my old bits work with the METRIC version? Some may, but as the templates are designed around the router bits new METRIC bits will be required for most joints.
Where can I get METRIC bits? Bits are available from a variety of sources, but they must be accurate, both in cutting diameter and angle. We have a Whiteside kit available.
What's involved in upgrading my LS? It takes about 30 minutes, you need; a shifting spanner, 1/8" & 5/32" Allen keys, a small sharp knife or a scratch awl. Remember we're on the other end of the telephone if you have any questions.

I hope that this helps?

Regards

Grahame

waikune

26th February 2010, 05:24 PM

:2tsup:Hey Great News re the Metric version of the mighty Incra Positioner. I use mine 2 to 3 times a week and very excited that Incra have finally agreed to convert the system to Metric. It will make setting up etc that so much easier. Can't say I will use the tolerence of 0.25mm but then it is THE precision fence. I'm all so glad I took the professional advise of Grahame at PWS (who I now regard the Mr Incra in Australia) in selecting the 17" and not the 25" I initally requested . Looking forward to my conversion kit arriving soon and let you know how I get on.

Gwhat

2nd March 2010, 07:40 AM

Hi all

After a delay getting through customs, all our conversion kits arrived safely, as did the full compliment of scales for the scale track (now able to read 0 to 1220mm in both directions).

We will be upgrading our few stock units today and will be taking pics so we can have a locally produced set of instructions. These will be available on request ASAP.

The new Master Reference Guide and 26 piece template set is completely updated. Whitesides new router bit sets to suit all these have also arrived.

In short we're ready to 'rock & roll'

Regards

Grahame

waikune

2nd March 2010, 06:33 PM

Gwhat

10th March 2010, 07:52 AM

What size Whiteside router bit should I now buy to suit my LS Positioner once I install the metric conversion kit. with 26 new metric templates I don't want 26 router bits do I? ( as I only have one birthday per year! )and how long did it take you (Grahame) to install the new metric kit?
Can't wait for the conversion kit to arrive...

Hi Waikune

The first conversion took about 45 minutes as I photographed the steps, from then on they have been taking 15 to 20 minutes, we've finished a comprehensive set of instructions that are sent out with every conversion.

The new templates require new METRIC bits that are available, manufactured by Whiteside.

I hope that this answers your queries.

Regards

Grahame

Barrie Restall

13th March 2010, 06:38 PM

Hi Graham,

I have the LS25 set up so I'm a bit p----d that there is no metric conversion.

Would the LS17 conversion attach to my existing fence and only require that I relocate the rack (the router table is long enough) and change the nut? I could then have LS17 metric and a LS25 imperial dovetail systems, converting from one to the other needing only to change the position of the rack, change the nut, and attach the appropriate slide to the fence. A bit of mucking about but it could be useful to have the shorter metric option available.

Or have I missed something?

Regards,

Barrie

dugjac

13th March 2010, 06:59 PM

Hey Barrie, Incra announced this week that the 25" conversion kit will be available soon (about 2 weeks). I'm sure Grahame will be about to source it for you if you give him a call.

Cheers Doug.

Gwhat

14th March 2010, 08:18 AM

Hi Graham,

I have the LS25 set up so I'm a bit p----d that there is no metric conversion.

Or have I missed something?

Regards,

Barrie

Barrie

Incra have had quite a few 25 users who want a conversion kit, there will be a short run of components modified specifically to satisfy this immediate issue. There are NO PLANS to offer Metric LS 25's (as of 24 hours ago) in the long term.

Anyone who needs a LS 25 Conversion needs to E-mail us ASAP [email protected] ASAP so we can add you to our order.

The whole Metric Conversion evolution is happening at amazing speed, however as the LS 25's still only have a 16" joinery capacity, the long term production of Metric LS 25's is not planned or likely.

Call me if you have any questions?

Regards

Grahame

Barrie Restall

14th March 2010, 10:41 PM

hI Graham,

That is good news, Ill definitely be in the queque for the upgrade.

Its not just the blanket box, its amazing how many drawers fall between the LS17 and the LS25!

I'll send you an e-mail.

Regards,

Barrie

Gwhat

18th March 2010, 01:55 PM

Hi
Our allocation of the initial batch LS25 Conversion kits will be here straight after Easter, or with everything going perfectly just before. We only have 4 units that aren't committed at this stage, with the production run expected late April.

Regards

Grahame

hitch

18th March 2010, 11:42 PM

Gwhat

19th March 2010, 08:35 AM

Sorry I don't get it.

I am disappointed that Incra have made a decision to abandon support for the LS25 purchasers wishing to convert to metric other than this one off run but what is the need or economics for converting.

Would appear that the conversion cost for those who have purchased the LS25 and wonder fence will be around $500 plus approx $200 for metric bits.

For me I just can't see that value in converting to metric or the advantage in working in metric units over imperial. For most projects there is little conflict in working with both measuring systems if necessary. If the math is a problem Graham is offering a great imperial/metric calculator converter for $20.00.

I am happy with my imperial LS25 and, for me, the cost of conversion to metric cannot be justified. That is not to say that if I had a choice today I would choose the imperial unit over the metric.

Hitch

Maybe I didn't make myself clear? Incra are reacting to customer comments and having a batch of LS32 Conversion kits modified to meet short term demand for LS25 conversions. A separate full scale production run will be available in July. The quantity of components that have been ordered will most likely result in the LS25 range being offered in Metric, long term

All the LS Conversion Kits are planned to only be offered for a short to medium term, as long term you will simply buy either Metric or Imperial versions.

As far as cost goes the LS25 Conversion Kit is $222.50 (less if it came from us originally) this is the complete kit; Lead Screw, Metric Racks, Scales, Stainless Steel Master Scale, Revised Master Template Library w/- 26 Metric Specific Templates. The Whiteside Router Bit Set is $210.00 if you need it.

Therefore the MAXIMUM conversion cost will be $432.50.

We've worked closely with Incra on the conversion program and I can assure you that Incra are completely focussed on keeping all users satisfied, the issue has been however, what products to offer conversions for and when.

We are in contact with the guys in Texas almost daily, as this program is moving (and changing) so quicky we all need to stay up to date.

I hope that this helps.

Regards

Grahame

hitch

19th March 2010, 10:49 AM

Hitch

Maybe I didn't make myself clear? Incra are reacting to customer comments and having a batch of LS32 Conversion kits modified to meet short term demand for LS25 conversions. A separate full scale production run will be available in July. The quantity of components that have been ordered will most likely result in the LS25 range being offered in Metric, long term

All the LS Conversion Kits are planned to only be offered for a short to medium term, as long term you will simply buy either Metric or Imperial versions.

As far as cost goes the LS25 Conversion Kit is $222.50 (less if it came from us originally) this is the complete kit; Lead Screw, Metric Racks, Scales, Stainless Steel Master Scale, Revised Master Template Library w/- 26 Metric Specific Templates. The Whiteside Router Bit Set is $210.00 if you need it.

Therefore the MAXIMUM conversion cost will be $432.50.

We've worked closely with Incra on the conversion program and I can assure you that Incra are completely focussed on keeping all users satisfied, the issue has been however, what products to offer conversions for and when.

We are in contact with the guys in Texas almost daily, as this program is moving (and changing) so quicky we all need to stay up to date.

I hope that this helps.

Regards

Grahame

Grahame, thanks for the further explanation and up. I'm sure at that price (or better-PWS customers) there will be quite a few who choose to convert their LS25's.

Regards

Ian

Gwhat

20th March 2010, 08:55 AM

Hi all 25'ers

The response has been very strong for the LS25 Conversion Kits, anyone who wants one should order off our web-site HERE (http://www.woodworksupplies.com.au/category16_1.htm) The LS 25 is about half way down the page. This includes those who have E-mailed us.

If everything goes as planned we should be able to ship before Easter, no promises but every effort will be made to do so.

Regards

Grahame

Gwhat

30th March 2010, 06:45 PM

Hi all

We received the LS 25 Conversion Kits late morning and have shipped all the interstate orders today, local orders tomorrow. Whilst we would have liked a few extra days to be sure the conversion kit arrived at their new homes before Easter, we have tried our very best. It's now in the hands of the transport companies.

We still have 1 of our allocation of LS 25 Conversions available. Order via the website if you want it.

Regards

Grahame

DoctorBobski

2nd April 2010, 12:29 PM

Got mine yesterday. All installed today. Many thanks. I can see myself using the entire system much more now I don't have to think imperial.:U

Gwhat

6th April 2010, 09:38 AM

Hi all,

Credit to Barrie Restall for taking the Metric process another step further. Basically, Barrie prepared a stock thickness table for the Metric Templates, I shared this with Incra in Texas and my colleague in the UK. Perry from Incra's reply is below.

I too would like to say thanks to Barrie for getting the ball rolling on this useful stock thickness chart. Since the original chart referenced comes from the Projects Book (which is not available in a Metric Version) it was not on the radar for conversion to the Metric. That said, I am sure that customers will find it useful. I have made a few important changes to Barrie's work that place the values given for the Double Dovetail's stock thickness in the "Half Blind" rather than the "through" dovetails column and added the correct values for "through" dovetail versions of this joint. While we do not instruct on how to create a through dovetail version of the Double Dovetail, it is none the less possible and the numbers are certainly worth giving. Please update your files with the revised version attached.
Cheers!
Perry

We're pleased to have been part of the 'team' on this process with Incra (the photographs in the Conversion Instruction Sheet published by Incra were actually taken in Oz as we did our first conversion) With contributors like Barrie, I'm sure we will see a whole new world of opportunities arise for Metric LS Systems.

Again, Onya Barrie!!!

Barrie Restall

6th April 2010, 10:17 PM

I am not sure my name deserves to be on the document; the original table for the imperial system was in Perry's book, I just borrowed the idea for the metric set as I had found Perry's table a very useful starting point.

When Grahame sent my feeble effort to USA, Perry tweaked it to clarify the double dovetail section to include through double dovetails that arent in the manual. So it is even more useful now. I think Perry deserves the credit for the table idea and the improvement to the metric one.

Regards,

Barrie Restall

Gwhat

11th July 2010, 09:39 AM

Hi all,

I just thought that ity is worth pointing out that Stuart has just done his LS to Metric Conversion An incremental conversion Stu's Shed (http://stusshed.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/an-incremental-conversion/).

I wouldn't have bothered cutting down the Metric Racks but the end result is the same.

Worth a look as is the whole of Stu's Shed.

Regards

Grahame

Stuart

11th July 2010, 02:35 PM

I kept most of them at the full length, just the situations where they stuck out the sides (such as for the stops), I wanted it to look as neat as the original. Cutting them down was so straight-forward I didn't have to think twice about doing it.

Gwhat

22nd July 2010, 09:18 AM

Hi all

Just to let you know that we still have stock of the metric Conversion Kits for the LS 25" system and the LS tablesaw systems. We have very limited stock of LS17 conversions and they will only be available via 'special order' once these have gone.

Regards

Grahame