I found this.........

[Reiner]

CLASSIC WOODEN SLOOP boat details - BoatPoint Australia (http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=7614516)

and I love it but all my friends are trying to talk me out of it. I know it is very old but it is beautiful and in great condition above the waterline what I can see in pictures.
My way of thinking is getting it out of the water and if the hull is sound I can't see why not to buy it. I'm a coachbuilder but I know very little about boats. So I need you smart people to point things out to me. Please let me know what you think.
cheers
Reiner

[HazzaB]

Hey mate,

Your friends are right, listen to them, it's got a flagploe, you don't want one.

My Opinion

HazzaB

[PAR]

Have the boat surveyed before purchase. This is the only way you can access your investment. Yachts that are 3/4's of a century old should be very carefully inspected, trust me, I do this for a living.

[Reiner]

I would make a proper inspection subject to buying it for sure. I just thought if the inside is kept that well it is very likely that the outside has been looked after too. Plus being Huon Pine should help too.

[PAR]

Not for nothing, but your assuming way too much. It's very easy to hide all sorts of ills with good looking cosmetic repairs. This is very common and often a dasterdly way of getting rid of a difficult to sell boat. Unless you have considerable yacht repair and restoration experience (decades), then you can look and inspact all you want and not see the "ills" the boat may have. I'm not trying to offend you. Even the most exsperenced skipper really hasn't much of a clue, when they're crawling around on their soaked belly, in an unfamiliar bilge, looking for "issues". If I preformed the full survay for a yacht of that size, it would likely be a two day job and take several hours each day. One day at it's berth, the next on the hard after the travel lift has hauled her for bottom inspection. Yes, this would cost several hundred (US dollars), but this is typical during the purchase of a substantial yacht. Most marinas will give you a deal if they know it's a survey haul out.

[Daddles]

I would make a proper inspection subject to buying it for sure. I just thought if the inside is kept that well it is very likely that the outside has been looked after too. Plus being Huon Pine should help too.

Let's imagine that the previous owner really loved his boat but knew nothing about boats. He spent hours polishing and sanding and varnishing, keeping the inside looking like a million dollars. Sadly, he didn't realise that the hull needed maintenance as well and the keel's about to fall off.

Or an example from real life. A friend of mine is a neat freak. Her car is always clean and neat, inside and out ... but has missed a few services. A week back, she asked me to check the oil ... and there wasn't even sludge on the dip stick.

Get it surveyed, properly and yes, it'll cost.

As for the concept. She's a lovely boat. You'd feel great sitting inside her as well as sitting in the coffee shop watching her at her mooring. You'll need to find out how she sails (can you sail?). Where will you moor her? Can you afford mooring fees? Where will you use her?

Richard

[PAR]

On the other hand you may have found a real gem, but this is a very rare thing to see after 3/4's of a century. Given your level of old wooden boat experience, you will need a professional assessment to determine which case this old lass may be.

[Reiner]

I agree with all your coments and if I decide to get more serious I don't mind paying for a good inspection. I do realise it is much cheaper to pay for a good check than finding out later it needs a $50,000 rebuild.
If I do more I will get some photos of the hull on the lift and keep you informed on the findings. Thanks for your thoughts
cheers
Reiner

[SimonP]

What a beauty! You may find that a boat this immaculate has already had a recent survey. If not, follow Par's advice and get one. After all, although it's good value for a craftsman built boat, it's still not pocket money.
The survery will either show:
It's got a few minor problems - which gives you some negotiating power
It's got major problems - you've saved $35,000 and been warned off
It's got no problems - you can sail or sleep in her knowing she won't fail you.

[PAR]

The quick and dirty that I see is the boat is being handled by a broker, which means it's really worth 26K, possibly as little as 20K. In excellent condition a well kept, good pedigree yacht of this age will fetch 3 to 5 times the actual sale value of this yacht. Given this, she'll have a considerable list of issues. Assuming that and the novice nature in both owning and using old wooden boats by the prospective buyer, my advise is to run as fast as you can, get good and drunk and blame the whole idea on bad whiskey.

[damian]

I too am suspicious of the price, and the fact it hasn't already sold.

Boat prices are way down in aus at the moment, so much so even I bought a jarcat last month. Having said that that boat really is a looker, not like 90% of the so called classic beauties that are as ugly and awful as...well you know...

I think the origional advice holds. If it's got a reliable survey look it over. If not inspect the boat yourself and if your keen get someone independant and capable to survey it for your properly.

Huon is very rot resistant but the gum frames seriously aren't. Of course the planks could be rotten but more likely you'll find the frames shot. It's carvel too, and you can't always sheath them. I'm not a trtemendous fan of dynel either, but it comes down to condition.

Let me say it again, as others have above. That boat could be the nicest one you ever own or it could become a phenominal money pit that breaks you. I would never buy something like that without the most comprehensive survey.

I know it's a different thing, but you could pick up a plastic boat that waterline and accomodations for much much less, with much less potential for suicidal miserable restoration work required.

Just take care...

[SimonP]

I know it's a different thing, but you could pick up a plastic boat that waterline and accomodations for much much less, with much less potential for suicidal miserable restoration work required.

Just take care...

Boats are so much like women.

Sure you can marry the safe one, the one you can take home to mother. But the unconventional, individual beauty who has "risk" written all over is the one you dream about at night. So it is with plastic vs wooden boats.

You'd still have her tested before spending a stormy night in her!

[Daddles]

Boats are so much like women.

Don't be ridiculous, the average man has an outside chance of understanding his boat :cool:

Richard :D

[SimonP]

Wooden Boats and Women:

Need constant attention and high maintainence
Problems can only be fixed by spending another thousand on her
Hulls become foul when sitting around too long
Can hit you in the head unexpectedly when taken aback or when pinching
Risky to take eyes off course when two close abreast
Can leave you high and dry overnight
Often mean your best moments are by yourself, single handed
Can tip you out with little warning, then carry on without you once you've got her set up
Nevertheless:
Look good under tight sheets
Full spinnakers on a run are a sight to behold
Very comfortable inside when rocking gently
At their best when blowing hard

Oops, sailing a bit close to the wind with that one, got to go …

[Reiner]

I think I have to forget about this one. I send the broker a email asking about any info reg surveys or history and never got a reply. What a shame, I think it would be wunderful to keep such a beautiful boat alive.
Thanks again for all your thoughts and I will keep looking. I'm not buying a plastic boat so much is for sure.
cheers
Reiner

[PAR]

Any reputable broker would quickly and happily send you survey information, to secure a sale. If not, they know the "jig's" up and have already forgot about you.

[dopeydriver]

Reiner , I believe PAR is "right on the money".
Don't buy anything , without a proper survey , by someone well qualified to give it.
She does look a beautiful boat , but there are all sorts of evils , waiting for the unwary.
You have spoken of the hull , but what , for example , about the engine ?.
If it were me , I'd now ring the broker , and profess a continued interest , and see what you can find out , push him a little further.
Something to feed the memory bank.
But a quality survey would be the foundation that your decision should be based on.
Regards Rob J.

[SimonP]

Reiner,
Just out of interest I called the broker today. His name is Trevor Peck 0401 333337. When asked about rot, he said he "didn't think so". On closer questioning it was clear he had no idea, a survey had not been done, and "there quite possibly could be some" (the sound of backside being covered very quickly when he found out members of this forum were interested). When I suggested that either the owner or broker could share in the cost of a survey, he baulked at the idea. Maybe he was afraid of what it would show. He didn't mind if a potential buyer organised one though.
I also called a Port Stephens local marine surveyor Mike Elton 0412 202670 from Emarine Surveyors, who didn't know the boat, but could do a survey for $800 +GST. Slipping costs of around $250 for the day would be extra.
He said that a boat of this age would very likely need major work if it hadn't already had a major rebuild, due to the use of copper or bronze fastenings in 1938.
Hope this helps.

[dopeydriver]

Simon , there would have had to have been a lot of work done on that boat in the last 70 years , to make it this far , looking that good.
It may well be the previous owner has kept her in good condition , and she is indeed good value for money.
Or , he is aware of "issues" coming up , and just wants to "bail out".
The engine won't be the original engine , but it too may now be ready for replacement.
I can tell you , from recent personal experience , that can be fairly expensive.
But I knew the engine of my prospective buy was a bit "suss" (by her surveyor) , and factored it in to my thinking , when I bought my boat.
Thats the way to do it , get a survey , get an estimate of what would be expected to be spent on repairs and replacements , and work out if its worth the time and money.
Is it possible to take an experienced friend for a test sail on her , with the owner ?.
That would tell you a lot too.
About whether that is the style of boat you want , and whether you want to investigate further , by getting a survey.
Regards Rob J.

[PAR]

A yacht of this class and scale will require about a grand for a full survey, which would include haul out. Most sellers will negotiate some, if not all of these costs into the selling price, but only if you write a check. If you were buying an old house, you'd have it professionally inspected too. This is one of the costs of yacht ownership. Again, getting into old wooden yacht ownership isn't for the meek or poor. Annual haul outs and bottom painting will be required, so will occasional inspections and surveys to keep your insurance company happy (plus the marina). Recaulking of seams, plus a host of other mandatory maintenance chores are necessary every year. A yacht of this vintage in good condition will carry a several thousand dollar burden in fees each year. This would include slip fees, pump outs, haul outs, bottom painting, having a few meters of caulk pounded in, occasional minor repairs and maintenance (like paint/varnish touch ups), new filters and seasonal duties, etc.

Trust me, I have a 48' ketch and a 40' powerboat, both in slips. The power yacht was built in 1960, so it's a youngster in comparison to the yacht above and lives in a covered slip (you have to take care of these old gals) for about 5K a year. The ketch is only a few years old, but being in a 50' slip makes a big difference in fees.

[dopeydriver]

Spot on PAR.
Reading your post , I was reminded of advise I used to give in a "previous life".
I used to teach carriage driving , and train driving horses.
I used to say to prospective new owners/drivers, "The cheapest part in buying a horse , is buying the horse".
So too with boats , particularly the type of boat we are discussing.
Thats not to say its something we shouldn't do , its just that we have to have our eyes wide open.
It IS rewarding , if there aren't too many "surprises".
Regards Rob J.

[SimonP]

When does a dream become a liability?
It's said the happiest days of a boat owner's life are the day he buys it, and the day he sells it.
Sometimes I'm grateful I only own my little trailer sailer which I can haul home every evening, and put to bed in a snug little shed. My wife and budget keep my dreams of owning a boat like this one from becoming reality.

[dopeydriver]

Well , my dream has become something of a nightmare , with this arthritis .
I'm sailing again tomorrow , hopefully , I'll find the answers , somewhere !.
Regards Rob j.

[mob]

Wooden Boats and Women:

Need constant attention and high maintainence
…
Hmmm. This is where I fall flat.

[Bosunof]

It is a pity she has gone off the market. She was very pretrty and was well worth a Survey. Had you taken her on I would have suggested you get her eready to sell to me when I get there.
There is only one thing you will ever regret with a lovely boat and that ius that you didnt get a survey first. It gives a clue as to what needs doing.

God luck with your hunt for another. There must be more available.

[SimonP]

I clicked on the link and she still seems to be for sale.

If so, she's been so for a while, and the vendor might be fairly negotiable on the price (or there really is something wrong with her!)

Has some-one told you she's not for sale?