New shed. Now, how to fit it out?

[Beetle Shirt]

Hi all, I am in the final stages of building a shed, and would like to shortcut the experience curve by, well, pinching ideas from you guys! :2tsup:

It's a 3m x 6m x 2.4m Ranbuild colourbond shed, with a roller door filling one end and an access door and window along one long side, and heaps of the fancy silvered bubblewrap type insulation. Magioc stuff! The end wall and one side are uninterrupted apart from the middle posts that form the middle frame/rafter. Unfortunately it seems to have shrunk quite a bit between ordering it and walking into it... :C

It's up, insulated and lockable, with just power, lights, lining and fitout to go. That's all. Such tiny little things. :rolleyes:

Power:
20A child switchboard with separate light and power circuits. Power will be run around all 3 walls via conduit on top of the middle battens, about 1.3m above the ground. Planning on 1 or 2 double plug outlets on the end wall, and 3 or 4 double plug outlets on each long wall. Reckon 20A is enough? Much cheaper this way, and I can't see myself needing more than one heavy drain tool at a time. I am planning on running heavy gauge 3 phase cable just in case I want to upgrade later.

Lighting:
I figure 4 double bank fluoros will be heaps, with movable sprung cantilever type lamps for where I'm working. Might even go with just 2 fluoro banks. Maybe I should have a couple of high mounted power points just for plugin lamps? Make 'em red ones so I don't use them for something else, blow the circuit and find myself in the dark. :o

Lining:
12mm 5ply lining to allow me to just stick a screw into the lining to hang something on the wall instead of messing about with shadowboard and those silly hooks that always fall out. All benches etc will be freestanding, but against the walls. I don't plan on holding any real weight with the walls, but the battens are about 1.2m apart so there's not a lot of support there.

Fitout:
Here's the rub. Not sure how I'm going to fit everything. I'm thinking a wood bench under the window taking up one bay, with maybe a drill press/mitre saw bench/table saw between it and the door. A full length general repairs/metalwork/automotive bench on the other long wall made from welded RHS with MDF/laminex top, with storage cupboards underneath and hand tool racks on the wall above. Not sure how to fit in the bench grinder, bench saw, drill press (bench or floorstanding, and why?), sliding compound mitre saw or, most importantly, motorcycle.

I figure the wood bench should be near the roller door to allow for long pieces, but then so should the table saw, mitre saw and drill press...

Oh, I should have a dust collector too. Somewhere. I'd like a bandsaw too.

Yeah, I know - I need a bigger shed. Next time.

Any thoughts? Apart from ones like "you're screwed", "that won't work" or "haha!" I mean... :q

[artme]

Don't you just love new things to smell and play with??:D:D:p

[switt775]

First thing, plan on putting all your machines on wheels. You don't have to spend big in them, a few bits of pine and some casters from Supercheap or Bunnings.

Not sure if 20 amps will be enough down the track. I've got 10 amp for lights, 20 amps for a swag of power points, plus a dedicated 15 amp circuit for my table saw. Ask your sparky how much extra to ugrade to 30 amps or so, it might save you a lot of frustration.

[Pat]

Check with your sparkie, 20 amps is not much juice for lights and power. I have 16amp light circuit, 2 20amp power (RCD/MCD), 1 10 amp dedicated gpo for the lathe and a dedicated 15amp gpo for the Thicky on their own circuits.

As Switt says, put everything on wheels - Bandy, T/S, Thicky, Drop Saw & Dusty. My Dusty will migrate to a small shed outside of the main shed, along with the compressor. The only thing bolted down is the Lathe.

Are going to line the floors? I have and am glad! I can drop tools without hearing that Dog awful "cink" of a freshly sharpened chisel hitting point first on the concrete. I used 19mm particleboard yellow tongue flooring over concrete plastic sheath and air foil insulation.

[Kev Y.]

Beetle Shirt, when I went through this process, I ended up opting for 2 power circuits running down either side of the shed, and a single light circuit, the power circuits are 25amps, with the lights at 15 amps.

I feel that you may have a bit of overkill by running conduit through the middle tophat section, I just ran all of my cabling through the tophat and used a multi step drill to place holes where ever I wanted to change direction.

One thing I have learnt is.. work out how many power points you "think" you need the double it. also look at using a few pendant style power points througe the centre of the workshopp. but be warned these have a $50.00 price tag.

The double power points I used were purchased off of Ebay, and I got 10 for $48.00.

[nihilism]

As far as the power goes, one 8A circiut should be enougth for lights, one or two 16A or 20A circiuts for general power, then at least one 15A outlet on its own circiut for larger machines, possibly more dedicated outlets if you have a few larger machines.

Be carefull running mains cables along metalwork without conduit, make sure they aren't near any sharp edges or anywhere they can be pinched. Use glands or bushes where they pass through holes and make sure they are secured somehow (use perlin clips etc.)

In my shed i currently have a sub board fed from a 10mm2 sub main cable and 40A breaker in the main board. I have one 8A lighting circiut, two 16A general power circiuts, two dedicated 15A outlets on opposite sides of the shed, and one 20A dedicated outlet for my hammer c3-31.

A shed your size you'd probably get away with two double fluro battens for general lighing and then add some extra work area lighing above benches etc.

If you're going to suspend lights from chains etc you need to use a flexable cable to the light fiiting which plugs into a socket fixed to the ceiling purlin. Suspended mains outlets also need to use a flexable cable.

[Beetle Shirt]

Wow, thanks for the quick replies guys!

New toys are always good! :2tsup:

I was thinking of casters for all the tables too, and even for the bike stands. Pick up both ends of the bike on race stands with casters, and you can roll the bike around wherever you want it. I may yet end up with a shed like one of those little puzzles with a missing piece that you move around to complete the pattern!

My original plan for the power was to run a switched 80 to 100A feed from the main switchboard down to a submain, then take 3 circuits from that - one for lights, and one down each side of the shed for powerpoints. The sparkies talked me out of it though, only asking questions about welding as according to them nothing else in a shed used much power. The other point is that the main feed to the switchboard is apparently too small to handle more than a 20A feed to the shed, and the switchboard itself needs upgrading - it's old enough to have an asbestos warning sticker and wire fuses, so I'm keen on giving it the flick in favour of something from this century. The upgraded feed to the switchboard by itself added half again to the quote, so I was trying to avoid it.

My welder is small, and I can't see needing a bigger one. I can only use one power tool at a time, so thought a single 20A would be enough and I wouldn't need to upgrade the feed to the switchboard. I was going to run heavy cable to the shed in case I needed more later but only run a 20A circuit and cross my fingers. The 15A plug comment raises a new point though - I've already had an eye on the 15" thicknesser from Carba-Tec, and hadn't even considered needing a 15A plug. Might be a better idea to put some 15A points in, and bump up the feed to 40A or even 60A.

Has anyone tripped a 15A or 20A circuit before? What were you running to do it? Would it physically fit in a 3m x 6m shed? :cool:

For the lighting I think I'll go with one double fluoro bank per (3m square) bay with extra worklights as needed. The double fluoros are what, 80W each? 160W on a 240V line draws under an amp, so you can basically ignore that circuit's load. The worklights will all be CFLs too, so won't add much extra to the load.

All the wiring will be in conduit. I have no desire to test how well the electrical cable handles being stabbed by Tekscrews, so it will all be nicely protected inside the conduit. I thought of running the conduit in the middle of the battens, but I'd have to put a hole in the batten to get the conduit into it and I don't want to weaken the batten if I can avoid it. I was just going to have the conduit sitting on top of the battens, but still inside the wall cavity between the insulation and the ply wall lining. It needs to be in conduit because inside the battens are the Tekscrews holding on the exterior cladding, and on top of the battens will be the Tekscrews that hold the plywood lining in place. Either way I need to protect it from Tekscrews. I suppose I could drop some 2" timber on top of the batten and run the cables on top of that, but running the cables in conduit right on top of the battens means I know where the sparks are if I want to run a screw into the wall. This is important, apparently... :U

Hmm, floor lining. Haven't really considered it, I kinda like the bare concrete. The chisel drop test is a fair call though. I might go with mats around the wood section and just sealed concrete elsewhere.

Oh, and what's a hammer c3-31? :?

[nihilism]

I could have gotten away with 30A sub mains with my usage because i'm also only using one tool at a time but not 20A as my C3-31 draws 19A and i still have to run lights and the dust extractor. 40A gave me a bit of extra head room. It's also a bit unrealistic to go above 40A sub mains from a standard single phase domestic supply as the feed from the street is only 63A.

The Hammer C3-31 is a combination machine, table saw / jointer / planer / thicknesser / spindle moulder. It has three 4kW motors, only one can operate at a time but each motor draws 19A so it requires a 20A circiut (dedicated 20A outlet).

I also have a Hammer N4400 bandsaw which draws 13.5A and runs off a 15A circiut.

It is a good idea to keep all your mains in conduit, everything apart from sone cables that run along inside the roof purlins in my shed is also in conduit.

At the moment i have 4 x double fluro battens in my shed which is 6m x 10m and it provides good general lighing but i still need to organize some work area lighing.

The standard fluro tubes are 36w each, you can get more expensive ones that are brighter than others, you can also get 40W ones which are the same size but a slightly larger diameter and will work in most standard fittings.

[RufflyRustic]

If you are going to line your shed with ply, take the time to insulate behind the ply as well. OK so it's added expense, but it certainly makes the shed more workable the whole year round.

If I could redo my shed over (yeah yeah, I said I'd never need to do that - boy, was I wrong:cool:) I would put in smooth-faced cupboards & drawers that are dust proof. I would have a separate room/shed for storing my timber. I would plan and put in place the dust extraction first before moving any other equipment in.

cheers
Wendy

[Beetle Shirt]

@Nihilism
Ah, I forgot the dusty. Looks like I will need two things running at once. A 2hp engine will draw about 6A too, so that may be a factor. Hmm, I might go back to my original plan of a 40A feed, and run 3 circuits - a small light circuit and a 15-20A circuit down each side of the shed. Be nice to partition things a bit more onto separate circuits, but it's not really workable at the moment because I don't know what's going where yet. Maybe for the next shed...

Just looked up the C3-31. Very nice bit of gear, but can't see myself ever justifying getting something like it. Best I'd hope for would be the Carba-Tec 15" thicknesser, which gets by with a 15A plug and circuit, so I'll plan for that. Might end up with something more like the Carba-Tec Economy 12.5", but I'd rather have an unused 15A point or two than be short of one.

@RRustic
The insulation is already in, and it's amazingly good stuff. It's the silvered bubblewrap style about ½" thick, and the shed came with 3 rolls that are 20m x 1.5m each. I have a full roll left over, so I will be adding a second layer in the roof and the North (long) wall before adding the ply. I highly recommend this stuff, it's much better than I expected.

Dustproof cupboards and drawers are a great idea. Dust extraction is an issue though, because I've never used it so don't know how best to lay it out. What do you suggest?

[sunnymiller]

I've scrounded heaps of polystyrene "broccoli" boxes from a nice green grocer. Cut them into six flat pieces with a normal panel saw. Makes a hellava mess but sweeps up easy enuf.
These 'flats' were ca. 32mm thick and fit neatly in the 35mm space between the posts, inside the colorbond cladding.
Then I put 35mm thick pine offcuts horizontally at the top and bottom. Screwed these in from outside with 16mm Tek screws.
To cover the insulation I cut up core doors found on the verge. Cut 30mm off the edges. This left two nice thin ply sheets held together only by cardboard honeycomb. That was removed using a paint scraper. Beware the glue can scrape/cut soft hands. At first I wore gloves til I got the hang of it.
Next I fixed this 'lining' using sheetmetal self-drilling screws where the metal posts and rails were and nails where there was wood behind.
Where I am going to put in shadow boards or hang stuff up I used thicker lining made from scrounged melamine MDF or plain MDF from e.g. a local BBQ shop. I painted this material with water based sealer/undercoat soas to minimize it absorbing moisture.
I used Air-Cell tape to tidy up/cover the gaps between sheets.

Now I'm on the lookout for cabinets, lockers, etc top keep dust off small stuff.

[Beetle Shirt]

Been a while, but made some progress with the shed and yard. No pics yet, will post some soon.

Concretors have been and gone, leaving a run of 32mm conduit embedded in the path down to the shed. Sparkies then ran 3 phase 40A wiring through it to the shed, installed a submain in the shed with one circuit connected, upgraded the switchboard to something slightly less medieval and upgraded the street feeds from 40A to 100A.

I now have safety switches in the switchboard instead of fuses, a separate switched submain in the shed with circuits on their own safety switches, and best of all a powerpoint in the shed! :D I also have the option of using 3 phase power in the shed later, but without the circuits actually connected yet. I figured it would be better to spend a little more on adding the extra wire in case I want it than not have it in there later if I need it.

Next step is to finish the lining. I'm using 12mm 5ply on end, tekscrewing it to the battens with cutouts at 1400 high for the power points. I'll end up with pretty much one power point per sheet I think. Only have 3 sheets in place so far, so subject to change still.

I even managed to use my new #4 Stanley trimming the sheets to fit. :2tsup:

[duncang]

... upgraded the switchboard to something slightly less medieval and upgraded the street feeds from 40A to 100A.

I now have safety switches in the switchboard instead of fuses, a separate switched submain in the shed with circuits on their own safety switches, and best of all a powerpoint in the shed!

I think I'll also be needing to upgrade our house switch board and street feed when I run power to my new shed; I'd be interested in the ball park cost of this? Also, was your sparkie able to upgrade the street feed or did they need to call in your local power company? (Its Energex up here in Qld).

Thanks,
Duncan

[Jim Carroll]

In most cases the power supplier has to do the upgrade to the board then the sparkie does the domestic instaltion work.

You may need to upgrade your board as well depending on how old the one is you have.

[bsrlee]

Beetle Shirt:

Who did you get to do the shed? Could you PM me with some details & costs for construction?

I am interested in getting a pair of sheds about that size ( the maximum 2 x 20m2 under the new regulations) in my back yard, mid North Shore area, PITA access.

[Beetle Shirt]

Duncan,

I can give prices in three sections, because I wasn't sure what I'd need. Think all this is accurate, but I might have mixed and matched the sections a little. Should be pretty close. I ran the conduit down to the shed myself, they didn't need to do any digging and had good access to all areas including under the house. As always, sparky work is a bit of a shock, but these guys I'm happy to have return.

Upgrading the street feed from 3 phase 40A to 3 phase 100A (16mm2) including a new earth spike was ~$1500.

Running 3 phase 40A cable about 40m to the shed and installing a 12 switch submain board in the shed with one circuit connected and a double power point was $1100.

The switchboard upgrade to a 12 switch subboard with 9 switches in use (so space for another 3), fitting safety switches for all circuits and a new earth spike was $1000.

Jim,

Some of them have to bring in specially licensed contractors to do anything between the street and the switchboard. These guys could do it all, which is one reason I chose them. I think the L2 certified bit you see in the ads means this, but it's worth asking them if you need it done. Can't really see the point in paying one set of contractors just so they can sit around waiting for the guy they subcontracted the street power work to arrive.

bsr,

The shed's a Ranbuild, which I'm happy with apart from the door. It'll do, but the frame's too thin for the hinges to screw to it very well. Adding a bit of meat to the frame is on my ToDo list. I mean book. Check your shed sizes too - my understanding is that you can only have one shed, so you might want to confirm. Hornsby council may have different rules from yours though.

Figure on the slab to cost about $60-70/m2 for 100mm 25MPa concrete with F72 mesh. On perfectly flat ground that doesn't need preparation. Mine was 3.1 x 6.2m ranging from ground level on one long edge to about 600mm high on the other and 6 separate footings 400mm square that went down about 400mm below ground level. Quotes ranged from about $4k to about $7k, and the 4k guy was cutting his costs too far. About 6k was realistic. Oh, you want it pumped in too, it's much quicker and more uniform than barrowing it in and doesn't take so many people to get it in place before it goes off.

The shed itself was about $6k, depending on the options you choose (definitely go for the top range Protherm Reflecta-Guard insulation, it's brilliant stuff), and about $1500 to assemble it. Then you'll want sparks connected and some lights and probably some more concrete for a path going up to it, so the whole thing just gets more and more exciting.

[labrat]

I have a similar sized shed and yes, you need a bigger shed. Lighting; think about switched floros on chains over work stations/benches.Buy second hand enclosed ones that protect the tubes. Lining; 1200mm is too much, fill spaces with a top and bottom plate with studs on 450 centers. I chose a shed type with a frame which allowed me to fill the wall with batts for insulation. I also chose to use 3/4inch yellow tongue flooring ply for the wall lining. Even though you plan on not putting anything heavy on the wall, you will..
Electrical and where to run it was also a concern to me, I chose to run it in 32 mm conduite exposed along the top, on the face of the ply walls. No guessing where it is you can see it. I used round junction boxes with drop downs for power outlets and the option of putting a GPO(The round white things you plug a 3 pin plug into) on top of the junction box to plug in work station lights fitted with 3 pin plugs.
It is just not enough space to have fixed machines they all need to be on wheeles. I know its a pain but I do not have the space to do differently and I suspect you may find the same.
The final thing is the biggie DO NOT GRIND INSIDE THE SHED. angle grinder of bench grinder. One you do not want abrasive dust ruining your nice Lie Nielsen plane collection (Yes, that was a dream sequence) and two you do not want to burn down your shed and may be your house as well. I have a cement area that normally is home to the wheelie bins when grinding is needed I move a metal table frame I have, to the bin area and can clamp stuff to it for angle grinding or can place my grinder that is set up on a ply base on to it . I had one scare where I had been cutting on a table saw and had a layer of fine dust on the floor then did some linishing of metal. I went insde for a cuppa and came back to find a smouldering pile of saw dust. That was close enough for me.
Hope some of that might be of use.
Regards
Jeff

[Beetle Shirt]

Dropping the conduit from the roof is a great idea. Wish I'd thought of that earlier. :-(

Good call re the grinding, thanks. Would have been excitting seeing that smouldering pile of sawdust! Be a pain moving the bench grinder outside, but not as much of a pain as building a new shed...

[Beetle Shirt]

Ye gods, I started this thread in March, and it's still not finished. :B :doh:

Oh well, made some progress lately, but it's been slow.

Anyhoo, to make sense of the pics:
shedexterior is obviously the exterior plus one of the yard owners. Good looking, right? The dog's handsome too.

shedinteriorleft is, not coincidentally, the interior left wall of the shed. Clever, right? :p I've actually done a bit more than it shows, but don't seem to have taken any pics. Not so clever. :( The lining is done around the door now, so the whole left wall is done. I've moved the sheets of ply from the floor up against the wall between the middle pillar and the door too. The extra floor space really made it seem bigger, so naturally I had to add more stuff until it looked cramped again.

shedwiring shows the wiring now in place in the conduit along the right side and back walls, with loops coming out for the power points and taped to the wall for convenience until the lining goes up. The left wall is nicely obscured by boxes of junk. The black box under the hat is a thicknesser, under that is a bandsaw, and the drill press was beside the thicky under the window. The first two photos are a couple of months older than the last one.

The big improvement in usability of the shed was made by taking the green beam in the second picture that was destined for the carport and cutting it in half and calling it a workbench. A 5.8m beam in a 6.1m shed is pretty much always going to be in the way. The carport will be fine as is thanks. :U

At least part of the lost time is because I've been bringing stuff into the shed to use instead of doing without. Unpacked the new drill press, and brought the SCMS out of hiding. Amazing how much easier a drill press is to use than a portable.

Oh, the middle pic shows a roll of the insulation that was left over. Two rolls of this stuff did all the walls and the roof, so I have a full roll left over for later.

You may notice that the third pic doesn't have any wiring loops in the bay closest to the rolladoor. This is because I plan on having that wall covered in storage, so PPoints would be in the way. All I have to do is come up with an efficient, cost-effective way to fill that wall with shelves/drawers/cubbyholes. :unsure:

[banjoping]

Looking good mate.

[BobR]

Not long now.:2tsup:

[jasons673]

Hi Beetle, your man cave looks great! I hope your not short, the fuse box in the second pic looks a bit high, too see what fuse has over loaded!

[Yonnee]

Ye gods, I started this thread in March, and it's still not finished. :B :doh:

I started my shed in March too... 2006!! :oo: And still going...


Nice setup. :2tsup:

I put lining up in mine, but only went down to the bottom purlin. That way I can sweep all the way to the tin, and liquid spills don't get soaked up by the timber lining.

I'm with labrat on the smouldering. I attended a shed fire with our CFA brigade, and as we got closer, it turned out to be a mates place. He'd been welding in his big shed, and a few stray molten splatters went under the door of his little storage shed. 20 mins later while lunching inside, there were desperate knocks on his back door by neighbours yelling, "the shed's on fire!!" This guy works on Formula Holden race cars and lost a fair bit of gear; magnesium racing wheels, carbon fibre parts, etc.

Further down the track, you could extend the roof line out to the edge of your concrete giving you an undercover outside workspace for nice sunny days or for jobs like grinding.
Not the best photoshop, but you get the idea...
147729

[Beetle Shirt]

March '06! I feel much better! :D
The liquid spills bit is a good point. Hopefully won't be too much of an issue, because it's too late to change it now. It does look neat having it go to the floor, but extra purlins may have been useful too. Oh well, man cave v2 will have a whole bunch of improvements - all I need is a lottery win and I'm there!
The awning idea has occurred to us, but your pic shows what it could be like quite well. About the only thing that may be a problem for me with it is that I'd have a couple of posts in the way on the edge of the slab. See how it goes, if I'm desperate for more roof it may happen, but the unencumbered space is quite useful at the moment. Swinging lengths of timber around without worrying about whether it hits a post is nice.
The fire theme has found a firm place in the front of my mind. The broom comes out regularly, and I'll be making a grinding table so all the sparks stay outside. Last thing I want is to finally get this thing done (ish) and watch it burn down!

[Wazzbat]

Hi

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet after quickly skimming all the posts but... Have you sealed the floor at all yet? It is a good idea to do that as early as possible otherwise you will end up with stains all over the place (like my shed:doh:). I was in a hurry to get my shed in order before I finished annual leave and had to go back to work. I bought some concrete sealer and it is still sitting in it's tub 5 years later because I didn't get around to doing it and just haven't been arsed moving all my stuff out now to get it done!

[Yonnee]

...it is still sitting... ...5 years later because I didn't get around to doing it and just haven't been arsed... ...to get it done!

Haven't we all been there with one thing or another!!! :doh:

[Wazzbat]

Yeah! Unfortunately for me it's a lot more than one thing! :cry3:

[Graziano]

A leanto awning on the side to store materials under would be handy. It lets you keep the shed a bit free from clutter.

[duncang]

That shed is looking good :2tsup:

I'm just about to start mine - had to go through a DA process and flood assessment, so hopefully only a few weeks now until the slab goes down.

I've been looking at using Berger JetDry for sealing the floor - any experiences with this stuff?

[munruben]

Shed looks great.:2tsup:

[Ross]

Duncang

Make sure they put plastic sheet under the slab. I have seen them skip this.

Ross

[Beetle Shirt]

Nope, haven't sealed the floor. Apart from unsightly stains (come on, it's a shed! :roll:) is there any compelling reason to seal the floor? I'd have to do it in 2 sections if I sealed it, there's nowhere else to put the stuff that's in the shed! The pic shows my first stains too. In the centre of the shed is some wood stains from the packing used for the shed kit, and at the foot of the aluminium platform (bottom right corner) is some stains that look suspiciously close in colour to the beams. New paint tin, and it sprung a leak! :~

Bit more progress - I've done the first part of the right wall where the storage rack is going. The green boards against the wall are the beam that was in the way before. It's now going to be a bench top against the end wall. Where the new lining has gone up will be full height shelving. Debating whether I make it 450mm or 600mm deep. The two beams as shown are 600mm deep and don't seem to take up much room, but once the full height rack of shelves goes in it will seem to take up a lot more space so I'm leaning towards 450mm.

[Wazzbat]

Duncang

Make sure they put plastic sheet under the slab. I have seen them skip this.

Ross

Ross. You don't always need plastic under th slab. Depends on the type of ground and how thick the pour is. I poured my slab after the shed went up and if I had of put plastic down, it would have taken for ever before I could have got the Whirlibird on top. I did wet the ground before hand a fair bit though.

[Wazzbat]

Beetle Shirt - I wish I had of sealed the floor. Even when I walk in with a dirty boot, it leaves a footprint stain. You will still get the odd paint spill stain or oil etc but it just gets really dirty all over the floor. The other reason is it will be a lot easier to sweep clean and it just looks heaps better. If I had my time over agian, I would have spent an extra few days without my shed while I waited for the sealer to dry. I do still plan on doing it one day. It will be interesting to see what others think???

[Beetle Shirt]

Hmm, strange as it may sound - especially to people who know me - the 'easy to sweep' bit is pretty compelling. A garage I had before had a painted floor. Would that have been the sealer, or is it transparent?

[mrpedersen]

Hello,

Great workshop. You have given me a solution for my workspace. It's in between an exterior wall of my house and garage, fully enclosed sunroom / breezeway. My problem has been how to insulate the space. Its subject to our lousy winters. One coming soon.

Needed something light, the foil bubble type will work. I'll be adding an oil heater as the area is not heated, usually around the freezing mark. Not to comfortable to work in. Just needed to see other ideas.

Glenn

[Wazzbat]

Sealers are generally transparent but painting it is probably another option. Personally though, I wouldn't paint my floor. I can just picture it flaking everywhere eventually:C. A sealre would give your shed floor a nice shine and really finish it off I think. You should ask around. A grano worker would have a better idea?

[Beetle Shirt]

Hello,

Great workshop. You have given me a solution for my workspace. It's in between an exterior wall of my house and garage, fully enclosed sunroom / breezeway. My problem has been how to insulate the space. Its subject to our lousy winters. One coming soon.

Needed something light, the foil bubble type will work. I'll be adding an oil heater as the area is not heated, usually around the freezing mark. Not to comfortable to work in. Just needed to see other ideas.

Glenn
Alberta as in Canada? Bit cooler there than around here, so go for the thicker versions. The product that came with my shed is the higher spec of the 3 that the company makes, and is 13mm thick. I'd suggest you steer clear of the thinner ones, and maybe even double up. The packaging says to leave the stuff loose though, with a 40mm sag away from the cladding to give it the optimum air gap size. That might mean that adding another layer wouldn't make much difference.

Re the sealing, if I decided to seal it I'd probably go for a driveway paint as well and give it a light colour that makes it harder to lose things I drop. There was also the point I saw somewhere here about a pale (he used white) floor being really useful to spot gaps between parts when you're checking for flatness. He used it for lathe work, but can't see that happening in my shed. Principle applies to many fields though, you just need to be interested in spotting tight clearances.

[Graziano]

Hello,

Great workshop. You have given me a solution for my workspace. It's in between an exterior wall of my house and garage, fully enclosed sunroom / breezeway. My problem has been how to insulate the space. Its subject to our lousy winters. One coming soon.

Needed something light, the foil bubble type will work. I'll be adding an oil heater as the area is not heated, usually around the freezing mark. Not to comfortable to work in. Just needed to see other ideas.

Glenn

Don't forget the foil lined mineral wool insulation, the foil does have some reinforcing for strength and protects the mineral wool from damage and shedding with the bonus that it's not flammable. It comes off the roll about 12mm thick and fluffs up to about 40mm thick. For extra mechanical support you can cover an area with hexagonal chicken wire and rest it on top of the wire.

[banjoping]

Don't forget the foil lined mineral wool insulation, the foil does have some reinforcing for strength and protects the mineral wool from damage and shedding with the bonus that it's not flammable. It comes off the roll about 12mm thick and fluffs up to about 40mm thick. For extra mechanical support you can cover an area with hexagonal chicken wire and rest it on top of the wire.

I'd have to agree with Graziano- foil faced building blanket performs much better than any air/bubble type products. CSIRO and ICANZ (Insulation Council of Australia and NZ) have done a heap of independent testing and the bubble/air type insulation just does not stack up.

A few shed companies push it because they have agency and % kick backs.

[mrpedersen]

Yes it's Alberta, A little distance away but only a key stroke or two.. Cool, I'm a retired programmer from away back.. still a little active.

If you use Google Earth:
53 11.00'.66 N 114 19' 00.66 W will zap you to my house.

Here's a link to a Canadian website discussing shop floors,, hope it helps for what your doing / planning.. I think it all depends on the good old thing called a budget.. My space .. well I'll start a new thread later.. Check this out ..

Wood shop floor - Canadian Woodworking and Home Improvement Forum (http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/showthread.php?t=31852)

And one of the main guys (mates) - is an Aussie - no less. Even has the flag in some photos of his shop - with the Southern Star.. Nice.

Thanks for the feedback on my issue, welcomed.
Well it's now our fall and your spring. Winter and summer to come - Full moons drive me crazy. Like last night.

Glenn

[Beetle Shirt]

Real progress this time. Lining now complete except the window surround!
Doing the angled cuts for the end wall was interesting, but got there. Next up is some lights and power points, and I can truly call it a shed. :D

[Graziano]

Real progress this time. Lining now complete except the window surround!
Doing the angled cuts for the end wall was interesting, but got there. Next up is some lights and power points, and I can truly call it a shed. :D


I see in true shed fashion, it's half full before it's finished.

[DJ’s Timber]

And one of the main guys (mates) - is an Aussie - no less. Even has the flag in some photos of his shop - with the Southern Star.. Nice.



He is a member here as well, but I just can't recall his username here :doh:

Edit: Remembered now, its Expat (http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/35320-expat/)

[Beetle Shirt]

I see in true shed fashion, it's half full before it's finished.
That's not counting the stuff I moved outside to give me some working room... :rolleyes:

[Beetle Shirt]

Bit more progress. The main part was emptying it again so I can seal the floor, which unfortunately highlighted another lesson. Next time, seal the floor before lining the walls. That way you won't get water seeping up from the slab into the plywood linings and turning them mouldy. :((

So, I needed a gap between the lining and the floor so I could seal the slab. I wasn't about to take the lining sheets off again, so had to find a way to trim about half an inch off the bottom of the sheets. Many things would almost work, but either make a huge gap (jigsaw, circular saw, reciprocating saw) or involve far too much time and effort (Japanese pull saw). On a timetable for this so needed it to be quick, so went with essentially a tungsten tipped circular saw blade for an angle grinder. After fitting it to the angle grinder I was wary of getting it anywhere near any body parts - those teeth are nasty! After using it, I'm now a lot wary. :oo: Not a very smooth cut, but man does it cut! It'd be a really bad idea to put any body parts in the way of that blade. Still, you'd only do it once. Per part, anyway.

Obligatory before and after pics. This is after surface prep - sweeping, scrubbing, vacuuming, and even a bit of wax-on wax-off work with some stones. The cheap AlO2 stone didn't seem much different from the SiC stone, but I wanted to flatten both anyway. Looks to have blocked the stones up though, so will need a bit of rescue work on them. The gap at the bottom of the lining sheets is quite obvious. This is bad not just for looks, but also reduces the strength because the sheets are now hanging from the screws instead of sitting on the slab. I'm thinking of putting 3 or 4 wedges under each sheet once the slab's sealed.
149921

Here is the obviously much different pic after the 'primer' coat. Huge difference, right?
149922

This is using Berger Jet Dry Aquatread. The sealer would have to be the thinnest 'paint' I've ever used. More like thick milk than paint. Obviously doing its job though. I did the edges first with a brush, and when I did the main floor area with a roller the overlap onto the edges I'd already done was quite obvious. The sealer was wetting the new areas, but just sitting on top of the areas I'd already done.

Tomorrow is a couple of coats of the Jet Dry topcoat, then in the afternoon I'll get back to fitting the fluoros for the sparky's visit on Wednesday. Gotta love the drying time of the Jet Dry - 30min for touch dry, 2 hours for recoat.

[duncang]

Duncang

Make sure they put plastic sheet under the slab. I have seen them skip this.

Ross

Hi Ross,

What is the purpose of the plastic and under what conditions is it needed? My mate (who is also getting the same shed as me from the same company) asked the concretor and he said its not required, but perhaps this was just for his particular site conditions :?

We've just had tons of rain up here in Bris - hoping its not going to delay things too much but the ground is absolutely soaked.

Thanks,
Duncan

[Wazzbat]

Duncang - I'm pretty sure the plastic is to stop the concrete from drying out too quick? So if your ground is fairly damp or the weather is fairly humid and cool, you won't need plastic. I'm no grano though so that's just my thoughts?

Looking good Beetle Shirt. You won't regret taking the time to seal the floor like I am still regretting doing and will probably never get around to doing. Actually I am having a garage sale this weekend to clear some crap out my shed before I re-design my layout so if I was going to do it, after the sale would be the best time. I might have to bite the bullet!

[Beetle Shirt]

The plastic under the slab does two things. During the initial cure it prevents the slab from drying out too quickly due to the ground absorbing moisture from the concrete. In use it also reduces the water uptake through the slab, a bit like sealing it from underneath. Definitely worth doing.

Rained last night, now sitting at 16C and 83% humidity. Not ideal weather for painting, and that 2 hour recoat time is looking unlikely.

[duncang]

Thanks Wazzbat, that makes sense to me.

Floor is looking good Beetle - I think that's the product I'm going to go with. I like the idea of being water based. How does it go for slipperiness?

Duncan.

[Graziano]

Hi Ross,

What is the purpose of the plastic and under what conditions is it needed? My mate (who is also getting the same shed as me from the same company) asked the concretor and he said its not required, but perhaps this was just for his particular site conditions :?

We've just had tons of rain up here in Bris - hoping its not going to delay things too much but the ground is absolutely soaked.

Thanks,
Duncan

Not enough water and the concrete is too weak and cracks.......too much water and the concrete is weak and cracks. There is a sweet spot of just enough water to complete the chemical reaction of the concrete, that's why the higher strength 27? MPa concrete's only difference to 20MPa is a plasticity additive that allows less water to be used. So for $60 or so you get a roll of visqueen plastic to prevent either to much or too little water from happening.

[Ross]

Duncan

Ask you builder why is it manditory to put plastic underneath the slabs for new houses. Rising damp is not pretty and definately not good for anything housed in your shed.

The company that built my shed puts plastic under all their sheds no matter where they are built.

Ross

[Beetle Shirt]

It's now a real shed. :D I don't have pics yet, but spent most of the day with the sparky here fitting 2 circuits, 9 powerpoints, 8 lights and 2 2-way light switches.

The last few days have been pretty busy. On Monday I emptied the shed, did the site prep for the floor sealing and did the prep coat. Yesterday I did two topcoats of the Berger Jet Dry Aquatread and some domestic stuff. Today was the sparky work.

This is the first topcoat. The prep coat was very thin and seemed to 'bring out the grain' of the concrete, highlighting all the flaws. The topcoat went on smoothly and thickly, and covered very well. This is just after finishing the first topcoat.
150048

This is just after the second topcoat. The tarp is covering the bandsaw - still in the box - and the bench drill press. Too much of a pain to move any further.
150049

This is from this morning after the second coat has dried all night. In the foreground is the reason for the fencing in the previous shots - preventing doggy autographs - and one of the reasons I'm not worried about the bandsaw being in the yard under a tarp. :D He's also the reason there were dirty pawprints on my nice new paint within seconds of the fence being removed. :(
150050

[Beetle Shirt]

Lights and power done! :D

This shows the power points (9 of them) one of the light switches and 6 of the 8 lights. Two of the power points are single outlet 15A switches, the rest are 10A dual plug outlets. The bay on the right of the pic has no power points because it will be a storage rack.

The other light switch is out of shot, just below the submain board in the top left corner. There's another pair of lights closer to the rollerdoor entrance. The light switches are both double two way switches, so the bays of 4 lights at each end of the shed are controlled as a group from either door.

Very happy camper! :2tsup:

150248

I did discover that I need to fill the gap at the bottom of the lining sheets though, otherwise I will be forever losing things.

[Dengue]

Awesome!! If I knew you personally I would probably hate you for having such a magnificent setup that I am so envious of :p

Love the lining, but looks like you forgot the outlet for the reverse cycle aircon unit so you can live /play there all year round :)

Well done!

[Wallnut]

Question BS. What are the speakers for ??????
Not/never a phone!!!!!!
Seems everyone has a shed dog :) mine is a cattle dog, she comes complete with a mat under the tool bench, hasn't learn't to make a cuppa jet.

[Beetle Shirt]

It's too small to be magnificent! I still like it though :)

The lining covers some pretty decent insulation, so I'm hoping aircon will not be necessary. I'm figuring on one of those 2' shed fans hanging above the door blowing out the rolladoor when it gets hot. Guess I find out soon whether that's enough.

Speakers? You mean the dark conical thing hanging from the middle post on the right side? That would be a light - quite a good portable floodlight from Bunnies that takes a 20W CFL. From the bad old days when I didn't have lights in the shed. :D

I don't have A shed dog, I have two! The one in the pic is the curious one, so he gets into everything that's remotely new. His brother's also curious, but apparently the world's a scary place for him so it takes a while to satisfy his curiosity. The first one will be in the shed near me, but the other guy won't unless nothing has been added for a while. He stays outside until he gets used to it if there's any change.

[Grumpy John]

Not sure if it's to late to post this piece of advice, but the next time I do a shed fitout :rolleyes:, I'm going to get the sparkie to put the circuit board next to the entry/exit door. I don't know how many times if heard the compressor start up late at night after leaving the shed and forgetting to turn it off. Having the circuit board by the door means you can kill all the power when leaving and reduce the risk of leaving lights (or the compressor) running all night :-.

[RETIRED]

Not sure if it's to late to post this piece of advice, but the next time I do a shed fitout :rolleyes:, I'm going to get the sparkie to put the circuit board next to the entry/exit door. I don't know how many times if heard the compressor start up late at night after leaving the shed and forgetting to turn it off. Having the circuit board by the door means you can kill all the power when leaving and reduce the risk of leaving lights (or the compressor) running all night :-.Yeah, but it switches the fridge off.:oo:

[Pat]

Luckily for me I have 4 power circuits in my fridge, Circuit 1 Beer Fridge, marked, highlighted and difficult to turn off. The other 3 circuits are routinely turned off, with the Lathe and 15 amp circuits locked off unless I am actually using that machinery.

The box is next to the light switch, right next door to the entry, no groping around in the dark for me. My sparky mate allowed my to design were everything went, within reason. All power points at 1400 height. My mates laugh at the 12+ power points around the perimeter . . . until I have toys plugged into every point.

[Grumpy John]

Yeah, but it switches the fridge off.:oo:

Two "F" things I don't have in my shed............... Fridge, Forklift :p.
I wish I had room for a fridge.

[Wallnut]

Hey Beetle Shirt,
I am jealous of the clean and tidy shed, but what the hell, the shed dog doesn't mind it and the wife reckends it keeps me out of mischief.
My humble uninsulated one has 4 x 3phase outlets, 2 x 15 amp circits with 8 double outlets and 2 lighting circits, had to fit the extra as the mercury lights have a time delay before restarting after a power blip, hence the fluro's as well. I went for the 15amp as the planer and band saw leads used to get warm after 20 minutes or so, dont now with the heavier wireing.
With 3 phase to the shed, it was just as cost effective as 10amp. All switches, switch board, RCB etc are next to the door, as you say, no stumbling around in the dark.

[Johncs]

For the lighting I think I'll go with one double fluoro bank per (3m square) bay with extra worklights as needed. The double fluoros are what, 80W each? 160W on a 240V line draws under an amp, so you can basically ignore that circuit's load. The worklights will all be CFLs too, so won't add much extra to the load.



Careful with fluorescent lighting, it flickers at 100 Hz (presumably 120 Hz in USA) like a strobe and can make spinning machines (such as table saws) look stationary. I have read about it, a (former) cabinet-maker I know has seen it happen.

[Johncs]

Nope, haven't sealed the floor. Apart from unsightly stains (come on, it's a shed! :roll:) is there any compelling reason to seal the floor? I'd .

Painting white is good. Especially if you're a turner.

Makes the place lighter, helps see the work-piece when it's held against the floor. Like when it's in a lathe.

[taylormclean]

Hi, Only just found your post but if your still in need of some help, you should definetly look into the French cleat idea for storing light/ medium weight handtools on the wall somewhere. i have this in my work shop which i constructed a few years back and it was the best move i ever made, its cheap and easy to construct if you have a table saw. plus it looks real neat.

[Beetle Shirt]

French cleats will find their way in there somewhere, it's a very neat way to hang something.

Pat, interesting you ended up with your power points at the same height as mine. Any particular reason you went with that height, other than it felt about the right height and was a nice easy number to work with? I basically lined my walls with PPs too, with every 3m section of wall having at between three and six plug points except for the shelving bay. Still had to use an extension cord to cut the shelving though. :(

I have noticed some of the floor sealant has started flaking off near the rolladoor. Must have dropped something oily on it at some stage. Other than that it's been great. Easy to sweep and nice and bright with the lights on. Really fine sawdust from when yellowtongue meets a circular saw is pretty slippery though. Going to have to pay attention when I make fine dust.