Mundial Knives - Excellent or Rubbish?

[Scribbly Gum]

Well I thought that these were quality knives.
We have had a set for just over a year and while drying one after washing it, it was dropped - landing flat on our cork kitchen floor.
The result is what you see.
I inquired today at the retail outlet that sold them to us and was told:
Mundial knives are made in two parts and always break when dropped.
Sorry we can't help you.
Now this sounds like a load of cobblers to me.
I have searched online for the Australian Mundial distributor with no success.
I propose forwarding these details to them if I can find them.
If anyone can help here I would be most grateful.

[Master Splinter]

I had some, and I wasn't really all that impressed.

Didn't have any that broke, but they never seemed to live up to what I'd expect at their price...I found myself reaching for the $2 mystery brand knife (seemed to cut better, hold an edge better, and sharpen more easily) more often than the $40 Mundial equivalent.

Yes, I could sharpen the Mundial to a ridiculous level, but it still didn't cut as nicely as the cheapie.

I recently picked up one of the 'never buy on full price, wait for the regular 50% off sale' sets of from a local department store...no complaints, but still not quite as nice as the $2 cheapie!

[ian]

Well I thought that these were quality knives.
We have had a set for just over a year and while drying one after washing it, it was dropped - landing flat on our cork kitchen floor.
The result is what you see.
I inquired today at the retail outlet that sold them to us and was told:
Mundial knives are made in two parts and always break when dropped.
Sorry we can't help you.
Now this sounds like a load of cobblers to me.
as you thought cobblers
http://www.mundialusa.com/images/forging_process.jpg
link is Mundial, Inc. - Cutlery and Cooking Accessories for the Professional Chef and Home Gourmet (http://www.mundialusa.com/forging.html)

I'd be inclined to tell the retailer, "not of merchantible quality" I want a replacement or my money back

[Master Splinter]

From their site...
"Single-piece construction. Unlike lower quality knives that often consist of several pieces welded together, fully forged knives are made of a single, thick steel blade that is integrated into the handle. There are no welded parts, and thus, no points of weakness."
I think I'll stick to my 'stamped out of a single rolled sheet' knives! (I mean, that break isn't even at a stress riser...if it was at the rivet holes, perhaps, but all that way from the section change is weird!! Especially if breaking when dropped is common!)

I am beginning to suspect they are the 'Monster Cable' of the knife world!

[Ironwood]

I have a Mundial set in a knife block that I bought about 12 years ago, they seem OK, but I bought a couple of Mundials on special at a local knife shop just recently, they are about half the weight of the older ones, they dont seem to hold their edge as well either.

[Claw Hama]

I have had a Mundial fishing knife I bought when I was 16 (now 50) still haven't found one better. But maybe the quality isn't what it used to be.
Mind you these days if I was after a good kitchen knife I would be looking at the $100 range at least.
$40 is the equiv of a carton of beer.

[Pops]

Hi SG,

Looks like a manufacturing faults to me, possibly an existing stress crack on the top there, but that might just be the photo. Other knife manufacturers, higher up the quality scale though, offer a lifetime replacement for breaks like that.

I think Mundial are being manufactured in a country where the cost of labour was minimal, Brazil perhaps. Hence quality control is sometimes not as it could be perhaps.

Give it back, as Ian said, and demand a refund.

I do own one Mundial . Used it for a week and came to your same conclusion, then swore to never by another one. It only gets used for all the worst jobs I can think of, in the garden cutting roots off plants, cutting into retic pipe etc.

As an aside, I have a couiple of Victorinox chef knives, as cheapies, about the same cost as Mundial and they are great, hold an edge much longer, harder steel than most. For the cost of my most expensive chef knife you could probable buy 2 sets, of Mundials, (9 knife and block). I like knives. :)

Best of luck with the retailer mate.

Cheers
Pops

[BozInOz]

Never had a problem with out set. Don't keep them sharp though. But's a user issue.

[johnc]

I've had a set for at least 25 years, and the cooks knife has made the odd trip to the floor, no breaks, and hold an edge well except for the vegie knife for some reason. Perhaps the quality has changed but that break is not normal, and if it only fell onto a cork floor it should be replaced. The sales man was talking out of his rear, couldn't be bothered would be my guess.

[rsser]

Yes, made in Brazil was the word when we bought a block set.

[Cruzi]

Mundial are not the best knife nor are they worst, about mid-range overall. Found they took a bit of getting an edge on, cannot comment on edge holding, always use smoothest steel on knives before every use.

Your knife looks to have had a manufacturing fault that should be replaced, however it could be claimed by them that dropping the knife is outside of normal use (like a car, warranty does not cover a bingle)

So, maybe not mentioning the trip to floor in future correspondence ?

[Kyle]

Had I seen this tread 2 weeks ago I would have jumped on and defended Mundial knives.

We have 3 of the black riveted handled knives and always found them fantastic. An oil stone sitting next to the knife block and a quality steel keep them razor sharp. I even bought my old man the 10inch chefs knife for Xmas 3 years ago. He loves it and brings it over everytime he visits to get me to touch up the edge.


2 weeks ago while cutting some raw chicken bones (drumsticks) with the 8inch cooks knife, this happens.

http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv260/kylarama/P4200009.jpg

Took a small half moon out of the blade, about 8mm long.



No dramas, maybe I'm abit to strong and rough. Jumped on Ebay and picked up a full set of Mundial 'Future' knives dirt cheap. Knives are only 2 years old and retail for over $400. Great, so far so good with these knives, they do have a nicer edge than the black handled ones.


Dad comes to visit today. Guess what happened to his knife while cutting a pumpkin?


http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv260/kylarama/P4200007.jpg

The break appears to be in the same spot as Scribbly Gum's knife.

Seems to be a weak spot for these knives.


Might try a strongly worded email to Mundial! If anything it might make me feel better.



.

[Pops]

Hi Kyle,

Looks almost identical to SG's break. A bit too coincidental perhaps. A bloke from work just had a similar half moon chip knocked out of his 10" knife as well.

Thanks for the photos.

Cheers
Pops

[rsser]

In my book chopping chicken bones is a job for a cleaver, not a French cook's knife.

My partner produced the same result in a similar way.

[Kyle]

In my book chopping chicken bones is a job for a cleaver, not a French cook's knife.

My partner produced the same result in a similar way.


True, but I was shown by a chef how to cut bones with a chefs/cooks knife. A good hard hit with the blade right up next the handle will do it easy.

As you can see by the section missing halfway down the blade I missed:doh:

[artme]

There are two brands of knives made in Brasil Mundial and Tramotina.

SWMBO would cuff my ears if she read this, as she is Brasilan, but in my opinion neither are very good. The steel is of uneven quality as attested by the fact that some knives will hold and edge and others not. Some you cannot get an edge on.

Brazilian industry is full of enigmas. The best alcohol fuel technology is from Brasil, they have the drop on the rest of the world when it comes to deep ocean oil drilling, they have a wonderful aerospace industry - the Bandeirante is a highly regarded aircraft worldwide.

Some tools and machines are of excellent quality and yet other stuff is rubbish, like the aforementioned knives.

The woodworking machinery there is crap, unless you go to big industrial level gear and it is excellent. I like Brazilian nails and their screws have good metal but most have slotted heads and the screwdrivers for them are garbage.

[China]

I would send it back to Mundial I think they will replace it, friend of mine who has his own butcher shop made the mistake of buying one of the later Mundial knives it broke at the handle also, it was replaced no questions asked. Looks to me like they are not being tempered properly, and a stress line is being created

[Kyle]

Well I went up tp the inlaws the other day. Guess what was sitting on the kitchen window sill? A 6 inch Mundial utility knife broken in exactly the same spot!

Will try and send them back China. Mother inlaw seems to think they have a 10 year warranty (her knife was only 6 months old) I saw elsewere on the net they had a lifetime warranty.


Mundial Chef’s Knife Review | 5100 Series 8-Inch (http://www.onlyknives.com/mundial-chefs-knife-review-5100-series-8-inch/)

In case anything should go wrong, it's backed with a lifetime warranty.

Seems to be common. I've looked at a few online reviews on these knives and breakage seems to be common. See here. Mundial Knives Kitchen Utensils Reviews Australia www.mundialusa.com (http://www.productreview.com.au/showitem.php?item_id=12630) 3 out of 14 reviews complain about knives snapping.

[Scribbly Gum]

Thanks for the replies.
I went back to the retail outlet where I bought them and can get no satisfaction.
While in Brisbane last weekend I called in to a different House franchise to ask about their policy on Mundial knives.
Aw mate we don't stock them any more. Used to. They are rubbish. Used to be alright but have gone to the dogs.
Hmm - I guess quality control has gone out the window with this manufacturer.
Anyway I have replaced the offending knife with a Sabatier.
Well it hasn't broken yet, but is high carbon and not stainless.
Started to discolour almost as soon as we used it, and the staining is spreading like blotches all over the blade.
Is this normal?

[rsser]

Yes. CS blades go grey I'm afraid.

[Pops]

Hi SG,

Yep, Ern is on the money there, discolouration is very hard to avoid and yes carbon steel is prone to rust marks if not meticulous about cleaning and drying after use, (in my experience anyway).

I have several Sabatiers, a range of makes/models and ages, mostly carbon steel. If you have one of the better Sabatiers, (quality varies somewhat) and not a Chinese copy then you should find it worthy of the extra care needed, (like any carbon steel knife blade). I love my CS Sabatier. It rings when the tip swipes the chopping board, nice.

Holds an edge well and is a much better balance, for my hand anyway. You can feel what you are cutting better compared to the heavier blades, like Mundial can be, if that makes sense.

Some chefs prefer carbon steel Sabatiers too, particularly the old ones, made in France. I did a lot of research on these knives but can't remember most of it now, memory is going I think.

Don't put your Sabatier in the dishwasher and clean it after each use and it should be OK. I have never heard of a genuine Sabatier breaking. You have made a good choice there I reckon SG.

Can you tell us what model you have, what is printed on the blade, out of interest?

Cheers
Pops

[Scribbly Gum]

Hi SG,




Can you tell us what model you have, what is printed on the blade, out of interest?

Cheers
Pops

Thanks Ern and Perry,
The blade of the Sabatier says Lion Sabatier, Made in France, 100% FORGED Carbon Steel.
No model number but described as 6 inch chef's knife.
I bought this one from Everten online.
Cheers
SG

[rsser]

Should be good. Way back I had a set of Wusthof CS knives which could be got nicely sharp but I never liked the staining.

More recently I got a couple of Japanese knives of laminated steel and they're a revelation. Some guff on them here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f111/japanese-knives-109164/) inc NeilS's expert advice.

[Pops]

Hi SG,

Yep, I have one with the same, Lion Sabatier Made in France, 8 inch though. This is a quality knife in my view. Done well. Everton have good prices too.

Check out Ern's Japanese knives thread. Very nice. :) Give Mundial a wide birth.

Cheers
Pops

[rsser]

I should add a qualifier. SG, as you'll see from that linked thread, the Japanese knives come sharpened, and it's a fair guess that the revelation was what a properly sharpened knife can feel like.

Admitting this makes me feel like a dumbo; so focussed on sharpening tools in the shed to the nth degree but so ignorant about knives in the kitchen.

[Gingermick]

I've really like my mundial 8" knife. But the tip broke when I twisted it in some frozen tomatoes (stupidly, in hindsight) but that is some pretty hard steel to be so brittle.
I will still like it until I get a better knife one day when I finish paying the bloody rates. :((

[Gingermick]

scratch that last comment, the bloody thing broke when it fell from the bench and landed on the handle. Broke at the other end of the handle. Cant find receipt, but going to place of purchase this morning.

[Ian Wells]

Mundial knives are rubbish I've had a W/Trident and Sabatier for over 20 years with all sorts of idiots and mothers in laws trying to multitask with them and IMHO they're bullet proof.
My dear wife bought me a 8" mundial cooks knife for my birthday to replace a Trident that was stolen years ago and after a month of treating it with kid gloves I discover the blade has a crumbly edge ie. chips if it glances a bit of bone or worse cut a curve through pastry on a board.
I discovered this as I found a tiny shard that had sliced my gum from an apple pie I made one night. Hate to think what could have happened if my young son had ingested it. Its a compost bin knife now.

Ian

[Gingermick]

I dont think it will compost very well

[Gingermick]

well anyone wanting a knife in Mackay should go to the this place (http://maps.google.com.au/maps/place?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=sXj&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=mackay+butcher+catering+supplies&fb=1&gl=au&hq=butcher+catering+supplies&hnear=Mackay+QLD&cid=14435112724213605375). Fantastic service and price.
They sent my knife back to head office and it was replaced in two weeks.
Now I realise how blunt I let it get.

[Ironwood]

Thanks for the tip Mick.

Will check them out next time I need a knife.

[woodhunt]

As much as I use this site for musing about woodwork, I use cooking for engineers for any culinary curiosity; it has a decent review/test of some knives along with sharpening articles etc:

Chef's Knives Rated - Equipment & Gear - Cooking For Engineers (http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/129/Chefs-Knives-Rated)

After reading the test I was going to slowly build up a collection of globals to replace my vintage wooden handled mundials (cleavers), wilkinsons (dough/bread/filleting) and felix solingen chefs knife but since have started looking into japanese chef knifes after becoming so impressed with their saws...

I must say that the small mundial cleaver has been very reliable- great heavy weight for its compactness.

[ishootfilm]

Hey guys, if you are still trying to analyze the cutlery cracks, I think I might have some info for you. I was researching cutlery steel and remembered Mundial uses 3cr13 steel. I stumbled across a link that explains about cracks during quenching. Check this out, it could be the cause of the problem.
3Cr13 Stainless Steel be Prevent Quenching Cracks's Measure|Han Chao(WuXi) Special Steel Co,. Ltd (http://www.stainless-steel-cn.com/prevent_quenching_crack.htm)

Oh, the only Mundial product I own is the Elegance series cleaver. It takes one strike to half a whole chicken and has never failed to cut through anything I've hit with it. It still has the original, very sharp, factory edge.

:photo2:

[Robson Valley]

Those broken knives. What a load of baloney they are!
I'd try to get a real tang really welded on, some cutlery rivets
and some walnut and make my own knife scales.

I gave up trying to do every kitchen prep task with a single blade.
One cleaver for soft things (20 degrees included bevel) and a thicker bone
cleaver at 30 degrees.
I mention that because I believe that maintaining the edge is a skill worth learning.
In my kitchen, water stones are the way I go.

The harder the steel, the longer it takes but the edge has to have enough metal
behind it or you risk chipping.

I had a drawer full of the mystery brand butcher (6) & boning (8) knives.
I gave them all to GoodWill/Family Services.
Now, my SIL is giving me Porsche knives!
I think they're overpriced for their edge-holding ability.
But, they are nice to work with and the one piece design is not slippery, even when wet.

For the next few months, all I really need is a Inuit Snow Knife.

[Bernoulli]

Interesting thread.

Generally speaking, Victorinox offers the best knife for the money. They are not the best by any means, bot for the average kitchen knife user they are fine. Mundial is not comparable in quality - forged or not (most Victorinox is stamped).

Theoretically, forged is better than stamped, but there are many other attributes that count in knife quality. Type of steel(s), design, tempering process, etc.

Ask your butcher what brand he uses. Typically they use Victorinox (Switzerland), Frost (Sweden), Dexter Russell (USA), F. Dick (Germany, also the premier manufacturer of "sharpening" steels) and some no-name German products.

The best manufactured kitchen knives come from Japan (I like Kai). I think that Frost of Sweden is a near second.

Use a cleaver to cut bones. Good kitchen knives have a hard edge. They are cutters, not choppers. I saw a picture recently of a Bob Kramer Damascus chef's knife with a scallop in the edge caused by chopping a turkey bone. $15,000+ down the tubes.

[bsrlee]

A friends SPFX company got a job that involved dropping several hundred 'cooks knives' onto a roadway point first from around 7 metres. About 1/3 of the knives broke near the bolster, and a bit less than a third lost the tip (not surprising). Interestingly about 1/3 of the knives survived the drop undamaged. He got to keep the broken knives and he reground the ones with a broken tip to give as presents to family & friends (the really broken ones went to the scrap dealers).

[Bernoulli]

A friends SPFX company got a job that involved dropping several hundred 'cooks knives' onto a roadway point first from around 7 metres. About 1/3 of the knives broke near the bolster, and a bit less than a third lost the tip (not surprising). Interestingly about 1/3 of the knives survived the drop undamaged.

Pretty extreme test.... which proves? From a practical standpoint - nothing. I don't own any ceramic knives, but I understand that if you drop one, especially on a tile floor, it's a goner. "Kitchen" knives are made from such a variety of steels for such a variety of purposes, it's hardly surprising that many failed at the weak point.

Back to the original question - Excellent of Rubbish? I'll vote for rubbish.

[enelef]

I wonder if some you guys were just unlucky or if i was lucky?
I bought some Mundials about 20 yr ago, 2 x 10" Chef, boning and utility and they are still going strong.
I even took a chip out of my caeser stone bench with one of the Chefs without damage. But i also have never dropped them either.

Maybe the quality has gone down hill since i purchased mine (most likely) but they have held up well with sharpening on a stone every month or so and steeled every time they are used (before and after).

I also have a few CS japanese knives that i picked up in Kyoto - great edge - but they always need sharpening/finishing ( only on a 2k or 8k stone) and you have to keep wiping them constantly or they colour up.

( I always wondered why the chefs in the Iron Chef kept wiping the knife each time they used it - guess i found out:doh:.)

If i was buying a knife today - for general purpose and value - Victorinox.
If i was buying for me - maybe a holiday back to to Japan:D

[rsser]

Agree that a drop-test is not of much relevance to domestic users. I don't buy a brand with that in mind.

We have a bunch of Mundials, along with Wusthofs and Japanese knives and I have no complaint. Quality = fitness for purpose. The Mundial flex blade boning knife is a gem (but a sod to sharpen). My partner can bone a whole duck with it, leaving the body in tact for stuffing and roasting. I use it to skin and joint chicken Marylands.

Maybe the older Mundials were better. Dunno. Do know that steel batches can vary, and that heat-treating is more of an art than a science, so YMMV.

[Scribbly Gum]

This thread is still going ............. I started this ..can't remember when.
Anyhoo we must have drawn the short straw - the Mundials that we have, have been a big disappointment, and to replace the one that broke I bought a Sabattier. Now it was not only not stainless, it was extremely stain-ful - to the point of rusting on the bench in front of us while preparing the meal.
I know that this will cause howls of laughter or possible disdain, but we have replaced them with a truly excellent set of stainless knives branded Wiltshire. These were a Big-W special of $45 for a set of 5. Take and keep a very nice edge and are wife proof.
Hahaha
Cheers
SG

[rsser]

Bingo SG.

I just bought a Wiltshire stay-sharp for a bungalow I sometimes stay in.

Horses for courses.

[Dangermandave]

If you appreciate a good knife, try SHUN big bucks but you won't be sorry, there awesome have 5 & love them all....

[Bernoulli]

Shun (pronounced shoon) are excellent knives. They are made by Kai in Seki City, Japan - Japan's cutler center. Kai puts out a number of lines of cutlery under many names, including Kershaw (Portland, Oregon). Some of their knives are made there in Oregon. My wife uses a left-handed Shun Santoku which she really likes. I use a Kershaw 9900 series Santoku (among many others) which I like. It is their least expensive kitchen line. I doubt they are available in Australia. Kai Shun knives can be outrageously expensive. Shop around, particularly on line. They are made with a VG-10 core clad in multiple layers of another stainless steel. If you toss your knives into a drawer, put them in a dishwasher, etc., they aren't for you. These are at the pinnacle of manufactured cutting tools and will last for generations if they are properly cared for.

[Stewie D]

Hi SG,

Yep, Ern is on the money there, discolouration is very hard to avoid and yes carbon steel is prone to rust marks if not meticulous about cleaning and drying after use, (in my experience anyway).

I have several Sabatiers, a range of makes/models and ages, mostly carbon steel. If you have one of the better Sabatiers, (quality varies somewhat) and not a Chinese copy then you should find it worthy of the extra care needed, (like any carbon steel knife blade). I love my CS Sabatier. It rings when the tip swipes the chopping board, nice.

Holds an edge well and is a much better balance, for my hand anyway. You can feel what you are cutting better compared to the heavier blades, like Mundial can be, if that makes sense.

Some chefs prefer carbon steel Sabatiers too, particularly the old ones, made in France. I did a lot of research on these knives but can't remember most of it now, memory is going I think.

Don't put your Sabatier in the dishwasher and clean it after each use and it should be OK. I have never heard of a genuine Sabatier breaking. You have made a good choice there I reckon SG.

Can you tell us what model you have, what is printed on the blade, out of interest?

Cheers
Pops

I have to agree Pops.
I bought an original Sabatier 14" knife in 1978 in the third year of my apprenticeship and it is the most comfortable knife I have ever used and still going strong. I use it for food prep in the kitchen and apart from a couple of no-name paring knives and a general purpose 9" knife I find I don't need anything else. I've used some of the other better known brands mentioned in this thread ( I've worked in a few commercial kitchens as a general kitchen hand/food prep/dishwasher etc over the years ) and find them OK but not stand-outs compared to my Sabatier. Yes, it is grey from use ( just like all my woodwork tools ) but I've never oiled it as all it takes is a simple wipe down with a dry cloth after a quick rinse.

Stewie