Making Tenons

[jow104]

Would forum members like to post their method of making a tenon and rate how accurate the shoulder line is to the opposing timber.

[craigb]

Would forum members like to post their method of making a tenon and rate how accurate the shoulder line is to the opposing timber.

Nuh :D

[echnidna]

if you cut all the shoulders at the same time on a drop saw they are perfect.
tenons a bit short though....

[Different]

I cut the tennon cheeks running the timber vertically through the tablesaw against the fence or if timber too large I use the bandsaw. I cut the shoulders on the tablesaw just shy of a line scribed around the timber with a cutting gauge. I then chisel to finish by putting the edge of the chisel in the mark of the cutting gauge. Clow but perfect every time.

[bsrlee]

I'm much the same as Different :D

[vsquizz]

You would be different if you where the same as Different not the same.:D

Table saw and Tenoning jig (Sherwood). Chisel for fine adjustments, but don't tell anybody round here but I sharpen the chisel on a Carborundum stone:eek: and its never polished or really that sharp Sssssshhhhh.

Cheers

[Driver]

You would be different if you where the same as Different not the same.:D


Isn't that the same thing as being differentially similar but similarly different? :D In either case, wouldn't it be ineluctable? (That last bit is for craigb's benefit).

I've been trying to learn to cut tenons the old-fashioned way: using a handsaw and a shoulder plane. First results with a Japanese rip saw were just OK. The line between the tenon shoulders and the surface of the mortised element was not as tight as I would like. I've improved on this by being a bit more careful - and slower - with the saw.

I've just recently bought an Adria tenon saw. Haven't used it on a M & T joint yet but over the next couple of weekends I'll give it a go.

Incidentally, the shoulder plane in question is a HNT Gordon ¾” model. Does a great job on paring end grain.

Col

[derekcohen]

If I have many to do and I'm feeling a bit pressed for time, then crosscutting on the tablesaw is the way to go. Set the depth of cut (on a good multi-tooth blade), butt the timber against a stop block, and cut (use a backing piece of scrap to prevent tearout). Turn the timber over and repeat. I will then either use a Carba-tec tenoning jig on the tablesaw, or use my bandsaw. All this is repeatable, accurate, and quick.

If I have just one or two, and/or I am in no rush (or just because it is fun), I will cut by hand using a tenon saw (choice of Western or Japanese, depends on type of timber) and shoulder plane (choice of Stanley #92/93 or HNT Gordon 3/4", again depends on the timber). I also have a Stanley #140 skew block plane to clean up/trim the tenons.

Actually the shoulder plane/skew block plane gets pulled out for machine cuts too since I'm not going to obsess that much to get it that spot on. It is better to do a final tuning for each individual joint, especially as all my timber is thicknessed by hand planing.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rocker]

Derek,

Why do you use stop-block to cut the shoulders? I use a mitre gauge, with a backing scrap to avoid tear-out, and have the end of the workpiece butted against the table-saw fence, when cutting shoulders. There is no need to use a stop block, since there is no offcut to get jammed between the blade and the fence. Doing it this way obviates the need for scribing a shoulder line on the workpiece and ensures perfectly matched shoulders each time. It also obviates any need for touching up the shoulders with a shoulder plane. I realise, of course, that this would be a disadvantage in your eyes :)

Rocker

[jow104]

Rocker

Is it the tenon end you butt against the table fence?

[Rocker]

Jow,

Yes, but I cut the shoulders first, and then the cheeks, using a table-saw tenoning jig. I am a bit dubious about Differnt's method of cutting the cheeks running the workpiece vertically against the fence. It sounds very hazardous to me, unless he is using a jig to hold the workpiece.

Rocker

[derekcohen]

Why do you use stop-block to cut the shoulders?

Rocker

I place the stop block against the tablesaw fence (should have explained this step before, but I assumed it would be obvious). Just less obstructions at the blade end when done this way.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Grunt]

Set the depth of cut (on a good multi-tooth blade),

Can you get single tooth blades? Wouldn't you need at least 2 teeth to stay in balance? :D

[Rocker]

Derek,

I understood that you used the stop block against the fence. I was asking why?

Rocker

[derekcohen]

Rocker

My apologies if I implied sarcasm - I did not mean this.

I think that there is no big advantage in using the fence or a stop block against the fence. I do it from habit now, but my impression is that there is less to interfere with the timber being cut. As I mentioned earlier, I also use a mitre gauge (to be accurate, I use a cross-cut table saw) with backing scrap. I don't rely on a scribed line, except for the test cuts.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Different]

Jow,

Yes, but I cut the shoulders first, and then the cheeks, using a table-saw tenoning jig. I am a bit dubious about Differnt's method of cutting the cheeks running the workpiece vertically against the fence. It sounds very hazardous to me, unless he is using a jig to hold the workpiece.

Rocker
What you mean dangerous ? Its not dangerous if you hold your breath, squint and grind your teeth.
Sometimes I use a 4 X 2 or 3 x 4 as a push block to save on squinting and breath holding.

Ross

[Dewy]

Using the fence as a stop can cause kickback.
This doesnt happen if the stop is a scrap of wood clamped to the fence in front of the blade.
I use a jig for this cut.
It's basically, a mitre gauge with a strip of 18mm plywood about 100mm high which goes a few inches past the blade.
To this end a couple of slots were cut and a piece with 2 holes through which go 2 bolts with wing nuts.
A pass through the saw with the blade at 1/2" gives a datum line from which tenon lengths are set by sliding the stop along to the desireds tenon length the wingnuts hold the stop in place.
equal shoulder cuts every time.

[Rocker]

Using the fence as a stop can cause kickback.


Dewy,
Kickback is a danger only if there is an offcut that can be trapped between the blade and the fence. When cutting tenon shoulders there is no offcut - hence no danger, so long as you use a mitre gauge set at 90 degrees to hold the workpiece.
Rocker

[Alastair]

FWIW, I use a variation on the below.

I set up TS to do the shoulder cuts. I use the rip fence, (no stop block) and have not had kickback, and I have done a few. I have found that if the tenon end is floating in free space, (ie having left the stop block) there is a tendency for the workpiece to drift along the mitre guage, giving a skew shoulder.
I take the time to set blade depth exactly to tenon thickness. I then make shoulder cuts first, then run a number of parallel cuts, withdrawing the piece, back to the end. Flip and repeat. Put workpiece in vice, and clean up faces with a chisel. This will only work if timber is accurately and repeatably thicknessed.

Alastair

[Rocker]

Alastair,

I agree entirely with your comments on using a stop block - that it can lead to a skewed shoulder when the workpiece drifts slightly on the mitre-gauge. I do not use a stop block on the fence at all. When I want to use the table-saw for cross-cutting, where there is an offcut, I use a crosscut sled, on which it is easier to prevent the workpiece from drifting sideways than with a mitre-gauge.

Rocker

[vsquizz]

Alastair,

I agree entirely with your comments on using a stop block - that it can lead to a skewed shoulder when the workpiece drifts slightly on the mitre-gauge. I do not use a stop block on the fence at all. When I want to use the table-saw for cross-cutting, where there is an offcut, I use a crosscut sled, on which it is easier to prevent the workpiece from drifting sideways than with a mitre-gauge.

Rocker
Rocker, Just a thought. Because I occaisionally used to get a few inaccurancies cutting with the mitre gauge as you suggest, I fitted a piece of 19 mm plywood to the front face of the gauge. About 90 mm high by 400 mm long. This makes it easier to prevent slippage and works so well I don't use my sled half as much.

Cheers

[jow104]

I found 5" wide tenons (aprons) cut with tenon end up against the fence much cleaner cuts than having the stop block at the far end.

Does anyone use a sledge with timber clamped when cutting wide tenons?