Need a tool and cutter grinder or plans thereof

[Kentower]

I am new to this forum and this is my first post. I have acquired an old English Holbrook lathe, a Sheraton 9 inch and a large mill/drill with dovetailed column. A lot of blunt end mill and slot drills came with the mill. I would love to be able to buy an appropriate tool and cutter grinder for a fair price to sharpen the relevant tooling and drill bits up to about 30 mm. However there seems to be few around so I am prepared to either buy a complete set of materials ( or part thereof) and plans for something like a a Quorn, or just acquire the plans and source the materials myself. I realize this may be a challenging project but I am prepared to give it a go. Any of your thoughts to steer me in the right direction would be appreciated.:? Thanks Ken

[Graziano]

You could build a Quorn T&C grinder yourself, but lately I've seen at least two $20K+ Makino T&C grinders sell for under $500 at various auctions. A lot of second hand machinery sales people are bursting at the seams with unsold gear right now and don't seem to be making it to the auctions lately so there are bargains to be had if you are willing to wait.

[malb]

I have a link to the Bonelle (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.b.d.willis/bonelle_tcg.htm) TCG, which is a build project within the capabilities of your machinery. It does not need castings, using continuously cast bar which is machined and then sawn/milled to finished shape.
Might be usefull if you can't come up with a s/h unit or set of Quorn castings.

[Kentower]

Thanks Graziano and Malb. At this stage I might take the advice of Graziano and see if I can drop onto something like what he was suggesting. I assume that means keeping an eye on the catalogues of someone like Graysonline. Also, I would like to be advised, does one have much trouble shipping the item from interstate. I am inclined to just buy something that is reasonably handy in Victoria so I can pick it up myself.:)

[.RC.]

Tool and cutter grinders can be handy things however... You need a lot of attachments to use them to their full potential.... Most second hand TC grinders seem to come with little to no accessories and the accessories is where the value is...Without them they are just a glorified bench grinder..

Prices vary lot.... A month or so ago there was a Makino in Adelaide on ebay that sold for $1600 within 3 hours of it being listed... Last week there was a Macson #2M that got no bids at $1500..

An average price at auctions seem to be anywhere from $300-$1000.. One chap last year got a mint ex-government Makino for $2000 at an auction in Canberra and I saw a plain Macson #2 sell for $3000 on ebay in Sydney last year..

Quorns are capable of many things however they are apparently very fiddly to set up.. Some people use surface grinders as TC grinders..Others use other means of sharpening tools...

I own a Macson #2 TC grinder.... It is handy but I do not use it that much...

[Graziano]

Any good T&C grinder (or surface grinder) will have tool steel V ways with ball bearings running in them. This means you'll have to remove the table and get the balls out and place some soft timber strips in their place to prevent the ways from being destroyed by transport.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136460&stc=1&d=1273269545

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136461&stc=1&d=1273269831

[Graziano]

Tool and cutter grinders can be handy things however... You need a lot of attachments to use them to their full potential.... Most second hand TC grinders seem to come with little to no accessories and the accessories is where the value is...Without them they are just a glorified bench grinder..

Prices vary lot.... A month or so ago there was a Makino in Adelaide on ebay that sold for $1600 within 3 hours of it being listed... Last week there was a Macson #2M that got no bids at $1500..

An average price at auctions seem to be anywhere from $300-$1000.. One chap last year got a mint ex-government Makino for $2000 at an auction in Canberra and I saw a plain Macson #2 sell for $3000 on ebay in Sydney last year..

Quorns are capable of many things however they are apparently very fiddly to set up.. Some people use surface grinders as TC grinders..Others use other means of sharpening tools...

I own a Macson #2 TC grinder.... It is handy but I do not use it that much...


RC is right about accessories, another thing is space and weight, a Makino weighs around 900kg and will take up one corner of your shed with the right accessories and getting an attachment for sharpening helices is very rare, if at all.

I know of an ancient Hercus T&C gathering dust in the corner of a shed but the owner is not going to part with it even though it hasn't been used for 20 years. That said if you are willing to wait there are bargains to be had if you can get them before the scrap metal dealer gets to them.

[Kentower]

Thank you for all your input, I am still looking and thinking. I did ring NEWMAC at Croydon, they had a Makino for $6500 with all the attachments but I mentioned I wanted to sharpen drill bits as well (that needed another attachment again). They did have another Makino there for $800 but that had no attachments. I am starting to think making a BONELLE might be the way to go, having read some American Forums. Any input from anyone with experience of these machines would be appreciated.
Thanks Ken

[Graziano]

Thank you for all your input, I am still looking and thinking. I did ring NEWMAC at Croydon, they had a Makino for $6500 with all the attachments but I mentioned I wanted to sharpen drill bits as well (that needed another attachment again). They did have another Makino there for $800 but that had no attachments. I am starting to think making a BONELLE might be the way to go, having read some American Forums. Any input from anyone with experience of these machines would be appreciated.
Thanks Ken

In my personal opinion, the only Makinos I've heard of at Newmac were on the "tired" end of the scale. It's the sort of item you have to keep an eye out for at auctions. Apparently the Makino C40 is a Cincinnati copy with some changes, so that would be another brand to look for. Hercus did make a grinder but it's a very primitive design with cast iron on cast iron ways that make it very easy to burn the item being ground as it's slow to move and easy to dwell on the one spot.

If your luck is anything like mine, you'll just get the Bonelle finished and a cheap commercial unit of some description will appear.

[QC Inspector]

Isn't there anyone selling something like these down under?

G0687 Tool and Die Grinder (http://www.grizzly.com/products/Tool-and-Die-Grinder/G0687)

shars.com - Universal Cutter Sharpener (http://www.shars.com/products/view/40/Universal_Cutter_Sharpener)

Or maybe direct from the maker in Asia

ZZM-10A Universal Cutter Sharpener ZZ002770 universal sharpener China products (http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/51547738/ZZM_10A_Universal_Cutter_Sharpener.html)

Universal cutter grinder direct from China (Mainland), Guangdong (http://www.tradevv.com/chinasuppliers/gdgrinder/product-list/Universal-cutter-grinder-catalog-13642.html)

Pete

[.RC.]

Here is an idea Article - Sharpening End Mill Cutters (http://www.homepages.mcb.net/howe/NewsCuttingToolGrinding.html)

[.RC.]

Isn't there anyone selling something like these down under?

G0687 Tool and Die Grinder (http://www.grizzly.com/products/Tool-and-Die-Grinder/G0687)

shars.com - Universal Cutter Sharpener (http://www.shars.com/products/view/40/Universal_Cutter_Sharpener)

Or maybe direct from the maker in Asia

ZZM-10A Universal Cutter Sharpener ZZ002770 universal sharpener China products (http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/51547738/ZZM_10A_Universal_Cutter_Sharpener.html)

Universal cutter grinder direct from China (Mainland), Guangdong (http://www.tradevv.com/chinasuppliers/gdgrinder/product-list/Universal-cutter-grinder-catalog-13642.html)

Pete

There are, but they are not tool and cutter grinders..

[Kentower]

Thanks for all your input. It is funny how after a few weeks things change, I am now starting to think that a tool and cutter grinder is a luxury. I had one of those cheap twist drill sharpeners that I got at a garage sale with no instructions. It seemed hopeless. I threw it to one side years ago. However after making this original post stating that I wanted a tool and cutter grinder that would also sharpen drills, I dragged this old drill sharpening jig out and hunted up instructions on the internet. It seems there are a multitude of manufacturers of this jig (they all look pretty much identical) Also the manufacturers instructions are pretty scant. I did find a site that had some detailed instructions on how to set this jig up properly (http://content.penturners.org/articles/2009/twistdrillgrindingattachment.pdf). Anyway I took a bit of time, set this jig up properly and WOW the bits that I sharpened looked like new ones. But some didn't drill like new, they were uneven. I found that I had to take a lot of care to ensure that each flute was handled identically with the same amount of pressure etc to get good results. I now also have a face mill cutter with the carbide tipped inserts. I may one day build a tool and cutter grinder when I am retired.:)