restoring parkanson power hacksaw

[mistercartoon]

I have been given a rather large 'parkanson' power hacksaw that has been torn down..forgotten about & not put back together.
i absolutly want to restore it but there are a few things that have got my slightly confused...mainly the hydraulic valve workings for bringing the cutter back down after lifting it up.
there is no plates on the machine to indicate what model it is but i found this pic on google its exactly the same. id would be very appriciative of some more detailed pictures, links or any info on this companys style of machine.
the cam, pullys, motor..inc oil pump have not been touched so i am just wanting to put the actual blade arm & weight back together but this means i need to get the oil system right.
thank you

[bollie7]

Theres one like that where I work. Don't think there is any owners books etc for though.
It's not that old (in terms of machine age) probably very late 1980's early 90's. The one we have at work was bought new in the early 90's. I started there about 93 and it was only a couple of years old then. It was moved to a different location about 95 or 96 and for the last 8 years or so it hasn't been looked after (I don't work in that dept anymore)
It used to be a very accurate machine. I'll see if I can get some info off it for you.
Might have to keep reminding me though. I don't get over to that dept much anymore.

bollie7

[mistercartoon]

gday bollie7
some up close pix from the other side of the machine (hydraulic lifter etc) to what is in the pic i posted would be a fantastic help.
thank you

[bollie7]

I'll see what I can do. From memory, there is a small lever which you push down to lower the arm. Just bleeds fluid out from under the lifting ram. Just in case you are not aware of this, the hydraulics also raise the arm slightly on the back stroke.

regards
bollie7

[mistercartoon]

Gday again all...so thought its time for some more pix & also questions.
ive basically got the power hacksaw back together but the hydraulics have got me a bit stuffed. ive attached some photos of the machine with hydraulic setup on, & also with the hydraulic setup off the machine.
I need to identify if i have the configuration correct.
really the only part that im unsure of is the threaded 'T'piece' shaft really....there is a pic in which im holding up wat ive concluded is just an oil check/dipstick & the tpiece im referring to is above my finger in that foto.
as i said it is threaded & scews down tight & it also has 2 O'rings above the thread.
I am wondering if this system needs to be bleed of air.
any thoughts?
cheers

[Woodlee]

Looks like a needle valve , possibly used to adjust the amount of hydraulic oil discharging from the down feed or the up lift on the cutting stroke.
I have a Parkanson saw , but it is a much older machine , mine is larger and mostly cast iron construction.Unfortunately the system on your machine is some what a different set up to mine and Im probably not much help.
I spent almost a year on and off restoring it back to full working condition.
From what I can workout from the pics the handel with the red knob on it is the control for the up and down feed of the beam , and as the blade gets to cut through the material the shaft is pushed down into the up feed position, the saw should start to feed up to the stop position and some where there will be a fitting that will switch off the power ,more than likely near the on off switch box.
The large tee handled shaft is to lower the beam down when the saw is in the up position .
Im guessing the small black knob is a needle valve to regulate the down feed rate of the saw when it is cutting.
Having a closer look at the last image it appears to have a rod passing through the plate ,could it be an oil level dipstick?

In the third pic ,I can see the switch actuator on the shaft that the beam pivots on that activates the off switch.

Some where above the red knobbed handel in the beam there should be an adjustable shaft or bolt that pushes the shaft down to activate the up feed.The threaded hole should be under side of the beam.

I tried to get in touch with Parkanson regarding my saw , they have been bought out by Capitol Machinery , I sent a number of e-mails to them but never recieved a reply to any of them .
These type of saws are no longer made , as they have been replaced by the horizontal bandsaw . I guess Capitol are not interested in the older machinery and would prefer to sell you a new bandsaw .
Hope this helps.
Here's a shot of my saw before I got the motor and drive gears installed .
There is also a video on Utube of it in operation ,but I have reversed the motor since I took that vid as I reckon it was running backward .It cuts faster in the direction it is running nowso I reckon I got it right.
Kev

[matthew_g]

Woodlee...
That's my saw....Well exactly the same anyway's

[steran50]

HI:) mistercartoon,
I had seen You're previous post, but didn't get around to Replying to Your Thread. I have a very similar Parkanson Power Hacksaw Capacity 6" x 6". I bought Mine of eBAY off a Company that was making Replica Guns. I went over Mine and Replaced the Bearings, replaced the 3 Phase Motor with a Single Phase one, Replaced V Belts, repaired the Coolant Pump, put side panels on it, fitted a new DOL (direct online starter switch), repaired the shaft the red knob raises and lowers, replaced one oil cap and her a good clean and new hydraulic Oil. It was good to see the Cover over the Ram as Mine is missing. Now I know what it looks like I will have a go at making one. Woodlee has given You some Answers,but as I have a more similar Machine(nearly the same) I will go over everything again in a bit more detail.

1. The small Black Knob is just a Dipstick and not a very good one, as it is hard to see the Oil on it. When You fill Your Oil Tank undo the silver colured plug that the Dipstick goes into it makes it a lot easier to Fill the Oil Tank. With the Saw in the down Position fill the Oil Tank to about 5 - 10mm from its top. Then Cycle the Saw a Number of Times and it will Bleed itself. Also Recheck the Oil Level after doing this.

2. The 'T-Handle' is a Needle Valve, this Controls the Saws feed Pressure ie how fast it comes down from the raised position as Your Cutting or how fast You want to lower it from the raised position. Do not screw it in to hard or You will damage it. I found mine had been screwed down to hard and it has damaged the Needle, it still works o.k.

3. The Red Knob Mechanism is to do with the Saw coming down and going up. When the Red Knob is in the Down Position the Saw will come down as it is Cutting - you must turn the 'T handle' a bit for the Saw to come down. When the Saw has finished Cutting the upper Part of the Saw will push down on the Allen Screw that is screwed into the shaft the Red Knob is attatched to. This causes the Red Knob to move to the Up Position which in turn redirects the Oil to make the Ram raise the Saw. When the Saw is raised up enough the Switch actuator (pic 3) will make contact with the OFF Button on the Switch and Turn the Saw off. Both the Switch Actuator and the Shaft that Red Knob is connected to are Adjustable.
The Red Knob connecting shaft adjustment is so the Saw only comes up after it has passed the Base of the material it is Cutting. The Switch Actuator adjustment is so the Saw stops where You want it to stop (set it stop a bit before it is fully raised or it could jam). The Shaft for the Red Knob has a Groove in it, this a Detent. A Spring pushes a ball into this Detent to keep the Red Knob in its position. A Grub Screw pushes against the Spring giving You some adjustment as the Spring looses tension or the groove becomes worn - causing the Red Knob to be released to soon.

4. Your Vice something I noticed. On the the Rear Vice (the fixed jaw) there should be two 'T Pins' and on the front Vice jaw (Movable Jaw) there should be one 'T Pin'. These T Pins are for quick setting up to Cut 45 Degree Angles.

5. On the Mainshaft You can see an Oiler on the Dashpot Driver connected to this Oiler is an adjustable threaded shaft. This shaft operates the Dashpot which make the Saw kick up as the Blade is pulled backwards in the Cutting process. The adjustment simply controls the amount of kick up. I've never had to adjust mine.

6. Oil - I Emailed 'Capital Machinery' ( took over from Parkanson) and they told Me to use iso 46 Hydraulic Oil for the Hydraulics. The Local Boilmaker uses Motor oil in His Parkanson (much older machine different from Woodlees) with no Problems. For the Slides I use Slideway Oil iso 68. I use either the Hydraulic oil or the Sldeway Oil in the Oiler on the Dashpot driver. I use use 'Lubrimaxx' Cutmax GPS Soluble Oil for the Blade Coolant.

You and Woodlee have done a great Job:2tsup: on doing Your Saws up,I didn't even Paint Mine apart from the new Side Panels. Power Hacksaws are still Made too check this out Tools, Spanners, Clearance, Bargain, quality, Sockets, Powertools | Transquip Direct (http://www.transquip.com.au/product.aspx?ID=5496) . I will take some Photos of Mine on the Weekend for You. I don't have a Manual for Mine although I would like one. No Parts are available anymore for these Saws that is apart from New Hacksaw Blades. it's Nice to have an old Machine in the Shed and watch it Working. I hope this helps You out.

[matthew_g]

Couldn't sleep, So decided to go out the shed and do a bit, Whilst there I took a couple of pic's of the saw

[mistercartoon]

gday again, steran50 matthewg & woodlee...thanks alot fellas
i think with the combined info i can sort out sum issues i have with my saw.
Steran50. i also will be converting my saw to a single phase motor. i wonder, can you tell me what size you have used?
i hooked up a 2/4 with a 8inch pulley simply because it was laying around, and well...it didnt have much go about it & i think under load it would bugger all.
so...back to the shed. cheers

[Woodlee]

Matthew ,
its the same model ,I notice your has the info tag on the door ,
is it possible to take a pic of that so I can see what info is on there? The tag on mine is missing .

The cast iron guard on mine was missing the outer door and the fixed part was broken , I made a guard from aluminium sheet ,I've yet to finish fitting the out door.I had to hand beat the aluminium to shape.

I replaced the large 3 phase 2 hp motor on mine with a 3hp single phase motor from Royce Cross agencies in Adelaide ,rebored the original pulley to fit . It runs great , I don't use it much ,but when I need to cut some seriously heavy steel it comes into it's own.
I use 90 grade diff oil in mine as I could not get the right sized seals for the lift ram ,the Tellus 46 hydraulic oil did not work very well.I use the hydraulic oil for the slide ways and oil cups ,I fitted wick feed oil cups in the slideway oil holes.I used pipecleaners for wicks , but I need to get some decent wick material as the oil gets used up pretty quick.

I set mine up with the original switch and cut out as well ,a few more pics of mine during the process of restoration and the guard making .



Kev

[matthew_g]

Woodlee, I've only just had my bath so first thing in the morning I will get a pic of the
id plate for you..I still have the origional switch gear in a draw for the old girl, But I like the plug and
play set-up that it has now.
As for oil cups and wicks, Mine has none, It's all set up with grease nipples and looks to me like they
were a factory option..
I use jack oil for the hydraulics and it works just great...
Hope ya enjoying the weather up there...I am an old Darwin local and I miss home...Ive been down here since 95...

[steran50]

HI:),
The 3 Phase Motor on Mine was 1 HP and I replaced it with a 1 HP Single Phase Motor. There is not a lot of Load on these Saws so I couldn't see the sense in a bigger Motor. The Motor Pulleys were Replaced with the same size ones (3 Phase had a big shaft hence the Replacement). The Motor Pulley sizes are 2" and 3". The 2" Pulley drives a 7" Pulley for slow Speed (I only use it on the slow speed). The 3" Pulley drives the 8" Pulley for Higher Speed - I assume the High Speed is for Aluminium and Brass ?. For interest sake the Blade length on My Saw is 14".
One thing to remember about that Needle Valve is DO NOT open it to far when Cutting or as Your about to Cut as it will cause the Saw to Jam and damage the Blade. This happened to Me one time with a 6TPI Blade when I was about to Cut a Slice of 4 1/2" of Solid Round Bar - Mild Steel only to see how long it would take to Cut. I opened the Needle Valve to soon and broke two teeth of the Blade as a result of it Jamming. With the same Blade though I subsequently Cut through that 4 1/2" Round in 18 Minutes, not bad Time I thought. I will get around and take some Photos of My Saw sometime this Weekend.
Now some Questions for Woodlee - Q1: I see You have Your Saw mounted on Castors, does it move around much when it is Cutting ?.
Q2: In the Pre Restoration Photo of Your Saw on the right hand side of the Saw there is a 'U' shape piece of soild round Bar. Is this Bar an Adjustable Cutting length stop ?. I have been thinking about putting an adjustable cutting length stop on My Saw, I was wondering if Yours works okay that is if it is what it appears to be ?.

[Woodlee]

Stewart ,
I have it on castors so I can move it about , my original idea for when I was rebuilding it ,well it still has the castors because it weighs 500kg and I can't lift it to get them off.It does move around a bit ,but I find if I have the castors set at 90 degs to the saw when sawing it moves very little if at all.I was going to make some brakes for the castors but its just as easy to push it sideways to get the wheels pointing the right direction.
I still need to move it around so the castors will stay until I get a more permanent place for it .
The big piece of U shaped bar is a length stop , but I find it a bit cumbersome and not accurate because it is a sloppy fit through the frame so I don't use it . I am thinking of making a length stop that bolts to the side on the machine and has an adjustment screw , but will need to be able to swing out the way ,so it doesn't jam the material when it cuts through and breaks the blade , I need to investigate this more when I get through a couple of other projects.

I like the set and forget aspect of operation., as I can do some thing else while it's cutting I spent a fair bit of time setting the auto cut out up so I trust it to work correctly

My original motor pulley was 1" bore IIRC , and the new motor shaft was 25mm , so I bored out the pulley to 1 1/2 " and scotch keyed a piece of solid steel into it and rebored and cut the keyway to suit the new motor .IIRC the motor pulley is 4" and 3" and the main drive pulley on the saw is about 11 or 12" , it has a gear on the back of it which drives the shaft for the crank and the eccentrics for the two pump pistons.

I run mine on the slower speed regardless of what I cut. Mine also had grease nipples which I replaced on the beam and eccentrics with oilcups. I converted a grease gun to an oil gun for lubricating the grease nipples on the pivot shaft.The main drive pulley bearings and gears are lubricated with grease.
If you saw the half ton of grease I had to remove when I first got it you would understand why I changed to oil.
Interesting thing ,the bearings I took out of it were Echuca brand ,and apparently were made here in Australia , I had never heard of that brand before , but was told by a guy at CBC that they hadn't been made since the war.All imperial dimensions as well, which took a bit of getting hold of replacements

The bronze gear coolant pump has a complete rebuild ,as the bore that the drive shaft passed though was worn egg shaped due to over tensioning of the drive belt ,I bored the housing in the lathe and plugged it with some bronzed then rebored to take a piece of 1/2 stainless steel .I cut grease grooves into the bore and refitted new grease nipples ,the pump is a bit rattly as one gear was worn on one side ,and I had to lap the end plate in to reduce the side clearance but it pumps ok .One day I'll make some new gears for it.The drive belt for the pump I made from a big rubber "o" ring from a 20" three piece truck wheel ,I just cut it to the correct length and joined it .
For coolant I use soluble oil mixed with water for coolant ,I've had a 20 litre drum for a very long time so I though I may as well use it up .
I use 14" blades also ,but I have some 12 '' and a couple of 16" blades in the cupboard.

I love my saw .
Kev.

[mistercartoon]

all this info has helped me greatly & i have my saw running as well as lifting etc
the only thing now i am playing with is the pulley drive.
i banged the oringinal 3'' pully back on the new motor & a 7'' pulley on the coolany pump end & i thought she was going to take off through the shed wall. lol man it went fast!
the single phased motor i am using is about 40rpm higher than the 3 phase motor that was stock on the machine.
What i am using is 1430rpm, im experimenting with differant sized pullys but i only have a few laying around
I thought that bigger pulley on the motor....very slightly smaller on the pump (so not to diminish the coolant flow to much) would be a good comprise...not so far.
Any thoughts?
cheers

[Woodlee]

I think my pump has a 4" pulley that drives of a 3 " that is part of the main pulley on the saw.
I can check later if you like.

Kev

[mistercartoon]

I think my pump has a 4" pulley that drives of a 3 " that is part of the main pulley on the saw.
I can check later if you like.

Kev
gday kev thatd be good. ive just got to slow the thing down..its dangerous just how fast its running
cheers

[Woodlee]

Ok my motor runs at 1410 RPM driving a double groove pulley 3" and 4" diam ,this drives a large 12 " pulley ,on the face of this pulley is a 31/2 " pulley for the pump drive ,the pump has a 41/2 " pulley .All these pulleys are the original pulleys that were on the machine. IIRC , the original 2hp 3 ph motor ran at 1425 rpm so I my machine runs a tad slower than original.

Quick rough calculation with the main drive from the 3" motor pulley to the large 12" drive pulley my pump is running at around 250rpm ,probably a tad slow ,but it works.

Kev.

[steran50]

HI:),
If it was going to go through the Shed Wall its going way to fast. They don't need to run very Fast. I will have a look at Mine over the next Couple of Days and draw a diagram of the drive System with Pulley sizes. I will also try and Work out the Strokes Per Minute. I think My Motor is a 1440 RPM one - I will check on this. Here is the pictures of Mine, as You can see it needs a good Clean at the moment and a change of Coolant.

I don't know what the Attatchment is on the Right hand side of the Saw - maybe something for a material support setup. The Stand/s I made up after seeing what the Local Boilmaker was using. I bought the Rollers for them of Hare & Forbes about $10.00 per Roller. I am going to change the Coolant Hose or improve on its mounting. As I find it moves away from where I need it to be a bit.

Woodlee - Yes, I have had similar ideas for a Length Stop. I was thinking of something that would pivot out of the way after removing a locating Pin. I was also thinking of securing part of Tape measure Blade to a Bar for it. I don't know what My Saw Weighs, it's very Heavy I know that. I have My Saw mounted on adjustable machine Mounts. It's current location is its Home, I have a Hinged Flap through the back of My Shed(7.2M long x 6M wide x 2.7M high) to allow for Long Lengths of Steel. Something Like this is probably not a bad idea for a Movable base (DaveKamp) Posting Has any one made a mobile base for there Bridgeport mill? - Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/bridgeport-hardinge-mills-lathes/has-any-one-made-mobile-base-there-bridgeport-mill-154425/) .
They are a great:2tsup: Saw to use. I owned a Small Horizontal / Vertical Bandsaw previously. When I Bought My first Metal Lathe I felt that the Bandsaw had to move on as it wasn't suited to repitiously cutting Solid Material. I either had to Buy a bigger Bandsaw with a Coolant setup or a Power Hacksaw - the Power Hacksaw Won. My Coolant Pump, I had to surface grind (Glass with sandpaper on it) both the Pump Face and its Cover Plate. The Shaft holes were O.K., they needed Repacking though.

In Regards to the Bearings I got all Mine through B.J. Bearings in Bairnsdale. I know at least one of the Small bearings was Imperial cost about $20.00 from memory. I am the same, I have No problems in Trusting My Power Hacksaw to do its Job and Turn itself Off when its Finished. I had better stop know and go to Bed.

[Woodlee]

Well thats interesting , I notice you have the direction of rotation marked on the crank wheel .(1 st Image)
My saw was originally set up to run in that direction cutting on the back stroke which is what I thought was correct.
I posted a video on you tube of it and one fellow from the UK model engineering news group made a comment after viewing the vid that it looked to be running in the wrong direction .
He suggested that I time the cutting of a piece of steel , then reverse the motor and time it again .I did this and found that the saw cut faster in the the opposite direction ,but was cutting on the forward stroke .
I always believed that it should cut back against the fixed jaw of the vice .
Now mine now cuts on the forward stroke ,against the moveable jaw ,but the vice jaw is so humungous and heavy I don't think it will ever come loose or bust from the saw.
Kev

[mistercartoon]

Well thats interesting , I notice you have the direction of rotation marked on the crank wheel .(1 st Image)
My saw was originally set up to run in that direction cutting on the back stroke which is what I thought was correct.
I posted a video on you tube of it and one fellow from the UK model engineering news group made a comment after viewing the vid that it looked to be running in the wrong direction .
He suggested that I time the cutting of a piece of steel , then reverse the motor and time it again .I did this and found that the saw cut faster in the the opposite direction ,but was cutting on the forward stroke .
I always believed that it should cut back against the fixed jaw of the vice .
Now mine now cuts on the forward stroke ,against the moveable jaw ,but the vice jaw is so humungous and heavy I don't think it will ever come loose or bust from the saw.
Kev


Just for informations sake i thought id add that the machine im restoring which is exactly the same as steran50's also had the rotation direction on the crank wheel & also the same cutting info on the side of the weight to say cut forward. sure its drawn on there quite rough but two machines with the same info makes me think that id love to track down a original handbook for the machine.
if there was such a thing when purchased new.
i have attached a pic of yet other of the same model that another member of the forum was good enough to send me & this one has an original parkansan sticker on the side of the weight indicating direction of cutting teeth.
interesting lol
cheers

[steran50]

HI:),
The direction arrow was actually on the saw when I bought it. There was a Sticker for Blade direction on the Saw as well, but it came off. I have always had the saw cutting on the forward stroke. I just had a look in My Copy of 'Fitting and Machining' in the Cut-off machine section I came across this "Some machines cut on the forward stroke and others on the back stroke (push cut, draw cut)". I have never tried the running the Saw backwards, I believe it is going in the right direction as I get quite a lot of Life out of the Blades. Here's some Pictures of My Saw when it was on eBAY

[Gavin Newman]

My power hacksaw also cuts on the forward stroke - against the moveable jaw - which I thought was strange, it's good to see others do the same.

[mistercartoon]

Ok my motor runs at 1410 RPM driving a double groove pulley 3" and 4" diam ,this drives a large 12 " pulley ,on the face of this pulley is a 31/2 " pulley for the pump drive ,the pump has a 41/2 " pulley .All these pulleys are the original pulleys that were on the machine. IIRC , the original 2hp 3 ph motor ran at 1425 rpm so I my machine runs a tad slower than original.

Quick rough calculation with the main drive from the 3" motor pulley to the large 12" drive pulley my pump is running at around 250rpm ,probably a tad slow ,but it works.

Kev.

I was just looking at how much info this thread has collected, fantastic!
anyway i was looking around at rpm x pulley formulas.
Can anybody tell me if this is correct?
motor RPM x drive pulley (pulley on motor shaft) x driven pulley

[Woodlee]

I was just looking at how much info this thread has collected, fantastic!
anyway i was looking around at rpm x pulley formulas.
Can anybody tell me if this is correct?
motor RPM x drive pulley (pulley on motor shaft) x driven pulley



Try this its easier

[Woodlee]

Here is a video link of my saw cutting on the rearward stroke but the crank wheel is turning in the clock wise direction .
I reversed the motor and now it cuts on the forward stroke , and the crank wheel rotates in the anticlockwise direction .
YouTube - Restored Parkanson Power Hacksaw

The clunky sound was due to a loose fitting key on the drive gear shaft ,its now fixed and runs much quieter.
You can also see how it performs mounted on castors as long as the wheels are turned 90deg to the axis of the saw. When they are parallel to the axis of the machine it moves about 2-3inches back and forward.
If you use the clock on the video screen taskbar ,you could work out strokes per minute ,I tried but lost count three times.LOL

Kev

[mistercartoon]

Thats a great converter woodlee so thanks again.
i actually did see you clip on youtube when i was trying to find info before finding the forum.
Your particular saw was the kind i was after, i just like the cast better
i just used hammercoat to paint mine what did u do?
cheers

[Woodlee]

I was looking for a grey colour similar to the colour of Mathews' machine , but ended up painting it wedgewood blue .
The paint is an epoxy type ,but not two pack ,pretty tough paint.
I should take some updated pictures as I now have the coolant nozzle set up and half the drive pulley guard fitted.
I still need to fit the door part of the guard.

[Bryan]

I was just looking at how much info this thread has collected, fantastic!
anyway i was looking around at rpm x pulley formulas.
Can anybody tell me if this is correct?
motor RPM x drive pulley (pulley on motor shaft) x driven pulley

Yes that's right however you need to measure the pulley halfway up the flange. I was told this with a shrug by the bearing shop guy about how pulleys are specified. I used this method when calculating my lathe spindle speeds and it checked out within a couple of rpm with an optical tacho that I just got from ebay. With my old Waldown drill press, I'd used the minor diameters and my calcs were out by a mile. Easiest way is to measure outside the flanges, then subtract one depth.

[eskimo]

Yes that's right however you need to measure the pulley halfway up the flange. I was told this with a shrug by the bearing shop guy about how pulleys are specified. I used this method when calculating my lathe spindle speeds and it checked out within a couple of rpm with an optical tacho that I just got from ebay. With my old Waldown drill press, I'd used the minor diameters and my calcs were out by a mile. Easiest way is to measure outside the flanges, then subtract one depth.

yes that is correct as pulleys are measured as PCD and not outside diameter

However assuming both pulleys have same characteristics in manufacture then its not usually relevant as 99% of differing manufacturers are, and you can simply use OD in the formulae.

I just find the ratio of the 2 pulleys and then multiply or divide (as required) by motor RPM. A bigger drive pulley makes a smaller driven pulley go faster and vice versa... so if the calc looks wrong you just simply do the opposite eg divide if you should have multiplied ...its a whole lot easier to do on a calculator, than starting up excel, correcting accidently deleted formulae and then punching in the data ......lol