PDA

View Full Version : Spray 22 bruce roberts unfinished project



SimonP
16th May 2010, 06:41 PM
SPRAY 22 BRUCE ROBERTS UNFINISHED PROJECT - eBay Sail, Boats, Boats, Watercraft, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 25-May-10 12:23:57 AEST) (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250633264096&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:AU:1123)

Rik
17th May 2010, 10:24 AM
By chance I met the owner of this boat about a month ago and after expressing interest (because I loved the idea of fitting a hull from scratch) I had a chance to look at her. I was also given some information.
This is a trailer and a 20 year old hull: the dream of the current owner's father (since deceased) that ended up in storage. I'm told it was under cover until about 2 years ago but the condition of the paint (and the moss growing in a drainage hole) make me think it's been in the weather a bit longer than that. There is also one crack in the hull where a truck or other vehicle banged into her. I'm no expert but, apart from having to fix that crack, it looks like you'd have to sand the whole hull back and re-coat it. Inside it appeared to be in good condition.
I didn't inspect the trailer closely because I'd more or less made up my mind by that stage. The trailer itself appeared to be in good condition but those tyres are probably 20 years old and all in need of replacement and two of them definitely seem to need that. They are totally flat and may have been for a long time, so the walls are probably structurally compromised.
I asked for and was sent some pics (of a somewhat younger hull and trailer with tyres pumped) so I'll see if I have them still and if so will post.
Happy hunting folks and feel free to drop me a line anytime you see a trailer sailor that sleeps for that needs a lot less work than this (preferably a pop top).

Boatmik
19th May 2010, 12:05 AM
I think that is a good reaction to the boat. A boat can survive for a couple of years with no deck but it is a bit risky.

Also as a bare hull it means that you save only about 1/6 or less of the cost.

Normally the hull is about 1/3 of the cost and it sounds like this is less than a third of the way.

But if it was in really good nick at a low price it might be a good choice.

Be aware that these boats are not particularly good upwind so a good reliable engine is important when the weather gets tough.

Ha ... just checked the Ad it is a glass boat from info that was just added today! So less deterioration but also not particularly relevant to wooden boat people

Best wishes
Michael

SimonP
19th May 2010, 11:13 PM
I couldn't tell what the hull was made from in the initial ad, and it looked like there were timber frames from the interior view in photo 4.
Perhaps we should delete this one from the forum.

Rik
19th May 2010, 11:16 PM
Well as I said earleir Simon,

I have seen it up close and it is a glass. The only timber I saw was the tiller

Boatmik
20th May 2010, 12:51 PM
I couldn't tell what the hull was made from in the initial ad, and it looked like there were timber frames from the interior view in photo 4.
Perhaps we should delete this one from the forum.

Howdy Simon, I thought of deleting it for about 10 seconds and then thought it can stay.

I had assumed it was wood too until I saw the reply to a recent question on ebay - so don't worry - this will happen from time to time.

If you have reasonable grounds for thinking it is wood and it is interesting then put it up.

One other comment about the boat is while the selling point is a comparison with Joshua Slocum's first singehanded around the world "Spray" it has nothing in common with the Spray at all. But a lot of people used to think that back when the boat was more common. Nice bit of marketing.

MIK

Rik
24th May 2010, 11:50 PM
One other comment about the boat is while the selling point is a comparison with Joshua Slocum's first singehanded around the world "Spray" it has nothing in common with the Spray at all. But a lot of people used to think that back when the boat was more common. Nice bit of marketing.
MIK

It is an effective bit of marketing. After meeting the seller, I went online and, despite the unimpressive amount of info specs on the boat and the unimpressive number of active forum members, the "association" with Joshua Slocum was greatly attractive. I wish I'd seen your commentary earlier and I'm glad that this thread is staying up. It might just give a little more relevant information to people searching around.

Boatmik
3rd June 2010, 12:00 PM
Be clear that it is not the vendor's fault that it is called the Spray. It is one of the SPRAY designs from Bruce Roberts.

MIK

Rik
3rd June 2010, 12:15 PM
Quite right boatmik. The vendor is just a person selling a boat that her father once dreamt to float and good luck to her. There are some impressive examples of this boat around in all sizes and materials and they all like the lovely and romantic idea of having some sort of Slocum heritage.
I actually feel a little indebted to the vendor of this boat and the various Spray forums for alerting me to the history of J.S. I'm planning to buy his book for the little fella and me.

Boatmik
3rd June 2010, 02:03 PM
That's cool Rik,

Slocum's book also has a nice Australian link. Slocum spent quite a bit of time in OZ. Mark Foy who was also instrumental in increasing the popularity of the 18ft skiffs (and had an department store on Elizabeth St - the facade still says "Foy's) supported Slocum by organising fund raisers talks and gave him a new set of sails as well.

If I remember correctly all the "Royal" clubs on the Harbour wouldn't have much to do with Slocum because he wasn't gentry.

But that is not quite as odd as in South Africa being told by the President that he (Slocum) could not be first to sail around the world, only the first to sail IN the world ... after all it was flat!

It is a great book.

Also you have to realise that Spray is probably not the sort of boat anyone would choose for a trip around the world - just the right price. If it had been capsized along the way it would not have recovered, that Slocum could understand a not quite suitable boat so well is a testament to his skill as a commercial sea captain and prudent seaman.

Best wishes
MIK

PAR
3rd June 2010, 03:04 PM
Also you have to realise that Spray is probably not the sort of boat anyone would choose for a trip around the world - just the right price. If it had been capsized along the way it would not have recovered, that Slocum could understand a not quite suitable boat so well is a testament to his skill as a commercial sea captain and prudent seaman.

Thank you for this Mik. I've more then once received the ill will of Spray lovers around the world, when I explain how poorly suited the real Spray was for blue water work. The skill of it's skipper can't be under estimated, he was a skipper's skipper and this skill set is long lost to time, GPS and much better map making. Even the "modified" replicas (term very loosely used in Spray's sense) are really crappy sea boats, though they do make excellent harbor queens and live aboards.

The Roberts Spray series are some what reminiscent of the real Spray in looks, but that's about it. This 22' version will make a great camp cruiser and coastal hopper. Don't expect to go very fast, but who cares when you can bring along all the stuff you can fit into one, compared to a similar sized production boat.

SimonP
3rd June 2010, 08:41 PM
Sold for $3400.
It's worth putting these boats on the forum just for the learning experience. Thanks guys.

Boatmik
4th June 2010, 10:40 AM
The original spray. Note the big wide flat transom. She is wide and flat - feet wide apart as they say. Relies on form stability - hullshape - to give stability. Like a catamaran in some senses.

http://www.betty-ck145.de/cruisers/smalljpgs/spray_in_australia.jpg

And a Robert's spray (I had to sort through a lot of discussion about what hairspray Julia Roberts uses to find this!)

http://www.kahawi.co.uk/images/surwaya2.jpg

The most glaring differences are the width of the transom and that the original spray is just about slab sided (flat vertical sides) right up into the bow. But the Robert's is a rounded conventional hullshape.

You can see by the width of the original's bowsprit just how heavily built the original is. That wide plank that slocum has used would look outrageous on a conventional yacht. But because the original spray is so big and beamy and all the timbers are so big it looks quite in proportion. That mainsail makes the modern version look like a toy! Slocum was tough and smart.

MIK

PAR
4th June 2010, 11:24 AM
The original Spray was a well worn out oyster dredger that had been out of service, lying in a field for several years, when it was presented to the "old man" as a gift after his retirement.

Slocum rebuilt the boat to his needs according to news papers of the era, but what is often misrepresented in modern times is what the term "rebuilt" meant in that day and age, compared to now. If it was "rebuilt" in the last 50 years, then it would have been restored to service as it pretty much was, by replacing what was necessary. She'd still resemble the oyster dredger she was.

Not so in Joshua's day. Rebuilt back then could mean several things, but most often what it meant was the boat was hacked at, until usable pieces could be found , then cobbled back together, not necessarily in the same fashion or "spirit" as the original vessel. For example the USS Constitution is considered a very real and representative example of her era, a frigate built in 1797. In reality, she's had 6 major rebuilds (I was part of the last one) which has resulted in her been several feet shorter then she was originally. This is because the bad, rotted or shot up ends of the boat have been cut back and re-closed up, literally making her shorter on deck then she was the day she slid down the ways 213 years ago.

This is exactly what happened to the Spray. The transom looks like a barn door, because it's been cut back to good wood. It may have had a counter or smaller transom with considerably more overhang, but this was hacked off, by Slocum and then sealed up. The bow had the same treatment, the deadwood assembly was entirely rebuilt according to reports and also made deeper. This is because the original Spray was a centerboard boat, which the good skipper elected to remove, in favor of a full keel. He deepened the keel again while underway, because he found he didn't have enough under him during the first part of the circumnavigation.

So, picture this, a retired old well seasoned skipper, tears out the deadwood assembly and replaces it. He whacks off the stern quarters and sets planks across the huge hole this must have appeared to be. He moved the mast forward, an all new rig, added a cabin, interior accommodations (which was very spartan), new stem, new stern, en-route 'round added a mizzen and deepened the keel (again), the list is extensive.

When he got to Australia a fairly comprehensive list of accommodations was made and a general outline of the vessel over all. At that time she was slated as an 18 tonner, which given her published dimensions is about right, for a fat bellied, originally shoal draft, oyster dredge.

If the same boat was built today it would be about 10 tons, a racer less probably considerably so, a heavy work boat more. The 40' version of the Bruce Robbert's Spray is a 16 ton boat with almost 9 of this in ballast. So, the real Spray was a heavily built work boat (maybe a few tons of stone ballast), which is typical of the trade she was originally employed in.