Polishing plane for Sugi

[paulsmithx]

Elsewhere I have written about my trials with finishing sugi.

I'm getting closer but am not having any joy skewing 45 degrees to try and get down to the required 35 degrees.

Can anyone please point me toward a quality supplier of the japanese "polishing plane"? This is, I believe a low angle plane specifically designed for finishing softwood.
Many thanks
Paul

[thumbsucker]

It is my opinion that to much is made from bedding angles. You will not get a quantifiable improvement from a 35º cutting angle in comparison to a 45º cutting angle, and the amount of effort and time plowed into finding that perfect tool, is a process of diminishing returns.

You will make more progress if you were to focus on having a sharper edge. What are you using to sharpen with? and to what grit?

Also planning slowly I have also found to be of great value. I.e. moving the plane slowly reduces the rate at which fibers can tear out making the whole process more controllable and reducing the amount of tear out.

Also having the tightest mount you can get. A simple way to tighten a mouth is to neatly add some masking tape to the leading edge of the bed, that blades rest's on. This also decreases your effective cutting angle, slightly.

You said you were interest in building your own wooden plane, you can make a wooden plane with a 35º bed, it will last long enough to serve its purpose, with no need for skewing the blade, which is relatively complex undertaking to construct yourself.

Also I would keep trying the skewing of the plane, through the cut, approach. If its not working, then you are in all likelihood doing something wrong, and we can help you to resolve any challenges you may have.

However to answer your question the simplest low angle plane you can get is a block plane. With a bed of 12º and a blade angle as low as 20º, you can get down to 32º.

A nice option is the Veritas® Low-Angle Block Plane (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32685&cat=1,41182,48942), and combined with a Optional Grips for the Veritas® Low-Angle Block Plane (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=41715&cat=1,41182,41189,41715).

However the tools that you have will do the same thing, just fine. Its simple a question of practice and skill.

One important lesson, that I learned is that if the tool does not work, then its not as simple as blame the tool. As there is always a three way relationship between the tool, your body and its idiosyncratic movements, and the material. A good tool helps but it is not end of the journey.

These lessons I learned through bitter experience and wasting allot of time and money. In the end it was me that needed to change, not the tool.

[paulsmithx]

...a sharper edge. What are you using to sharpen with? and to what grit?

I am using a Veritas jig andwith a 2000 water stone and then finish with slurry on a 6000. The blade seems sharp to me, but then I'm certainly no expert in this and happy to take advice.


Also planning slowly I have also found to be of great value. I.e. moving the plane slowly reduces the rate at which fibers can tear out making the whole process more controllable and reducing the amount of tear out.

An interesting observation. In my last planing session I found the contrary. Moving slowly I got horrendous tear out. Moving quickly seemed to work better. There must be something else in my technique then.



Also having the tightest mount you can get. A simple way to tighten a mouth is to neatly add some masking tape to the leading edge of the bed, that blades rest's on. This also decreases your effective cutting angle, slightly.

You said you were interest in building your own wooden plane, you can make a wooden plane with a 35º bed, it will last long enough to serve its purpose, with no need for skewing the blade, which is relatively complex undertaking to construct yourself.

Also I would keep trying the skewing of the plane, through the cut, approach. If its not working, then you are in all likelihood doing something wrong, and we can help you to resolve any challenges you may have.

Thanks for the kind offer. I've tried planing with the blade perpendicular to the direction of movement - ie the regular method, and I get a good fine shaving. Now when I skew the plane about 30 degrees it takes no shaving. I checked for a flat bed and it seemed flat.

I've also not checked the camber of the blade since I bought the planes I must confess.

Any other ideas.


One important lesson, that I learned is that if the tool does not work, then its not as simple as blame the tool. As there is always a three way relationship between the tool, your body and its idiosyncratic movements, and the material. A good tool helps but it is not end of the journey.

These lessons I learned through bitter experience and wasting allot of time and money. In the end it was me that needed to change, not the tool.

I'm sure there is much that I need to do and am thankful for your suggestions and advice. My idea was to use the correct tool for the job, and I'd read elsewhere that the blade angle I was using was unsuitable for the very soft timber I was working. While I've always been one for trying to make do with what I have, I'm also aware that using the wrong tool...well you know the rest.

If the voice of experience tells me that my tools are adequate then I'll seek technical correction with gladness.

[thumbsucker]

How sharp is sharp is hard to tell unless you have it shown to you.

Do you know about the finger nail test? Sharpen the blade, then with the bevel facing up see how low you can go and still take a shaving from your finger nail. If it is sharp you should be able to hold the back of the blade flat against your finger nail and still be able to take shavings.

BE CAREFULL

Also are you getting a good consistent burr along the full width of length of your blade at every grit?

Question: How thick are your shavings? Can you read a newspaper through them?

Regarding the skewing of the plane. Have you checked the timber for flat? If you have a hollow area your plane will not take any shavings?

Does the plane take shaving at a 15º or 20º skewing angle?

Have you tried increasing the depth of cut when skewing the plane?

When planing normally are your shaving full width and consistent thickness?

Lets start with this.

[NeilS]

If your blade does not pass the fingernail test described by TS, check the edge under magnification (30X to 50x, the ones with own light source work well) to see what is actually happening right on the actual edge. If you have never looked at your edges under magnification before you may be quite surprised how rough a polished edge can be and still cut in a fashion.

I start by looking straight at the edge, same as you do against the light without magnification. The purpose of this inspection is to see that you do have a genuinely fine edge (no light reflecting off the edge) and that there is not any residual burr.

Then check out the bevel to see that you have taken the 6000 grit right to and along the edge.

A properly sharpened blade to 6000 grit will give a sharp enough edge to give a reasonably fine cut on softwood. 8000 would be better, 10000 better again, and 20000 is a dream, but if you can't get a properly sharp edge on a 6000 waterstone, the higher grit waterstone won't make any difference.

Apologies if I'm not telling you how to suck eggs here, Paul.

If your edge is sharp I would be inclined to concentrate on closing your plane mouth right down to take the finest shavings you can and pay close attention to grain direction.... you may have to alternate the direction you plane in several times along the length of the board.

And if none of that improves your results, I'll have to leave you in the capable hands of TS and the other 'plane craft' experts here on the forum.

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[rsser]

Which plane are you using Paul?

Bear in mind that the tip of the blade back needs to be polished to the same grit level as the bevel - but I'm sure you know this.

And some woods .... in woodturning sometimes folk treat the surface with sanding sealer to reduce tear-out for the final cut or two.

[Gadge]

Paul,

If I can of of any assistance, I'm going to Oberon from Sydney tomorrow and could drop by. I will bring a couple of very sharp planes and compare if you would like.

Let me know.

Regards,
Garry

[paulsmithx]

Thanks all for the tips.

As you may know I started with the HNT smoother and am now using the smallesr mujinfang bought from Ern. I've sharpened and polished both sides but haven't had a look under magnification yet. I'll be interested to do that.

I did discover the grain turning across the width of the board and adjusted direction accordingly.

The offer is very well received Garry but I'm heading the opposite direction to you early in the morning. Will pm in case we can organise something on the return.

Thanks again and will post more as more comes to light.
best-Paul

[gregore']

my advise for what it is worth is "sharp"

i will elaborate ..... i work in soft woods only and they do not tolerate a dull blade, for the final polish finish the blade must be of the highest work you can do in the sharpening department . as you get better at sharpening your expectations of what you will settle for will also rise. but i would say that in general less than 15 minutes sharpening the final edge (for some one who does not do this for a living ) is going to leave a finish that could still be a lot better. and the plane does not matter too much nor does the angle of the blade matter that much , at least until you can get that shine on the wood straight from the cut(i have seen wood planned by some of the best and it looks like marble with wood grain) . a little tip to point you in the right direction would be sharpen progressively softer on the last stone and flip from ura to bevel side many times , most man made stone will still produce a bur even in the very fine grits. natural will or tend not to.

hope this helps

gregore'

ps. if you want to know more about sharpening then check out the posts by member ; daiku05353

on : Japanese Woodworking Forums "http://www.shizutanischool.org/phpBB3/"

[NeilS]

Hi Gregore'

Welcome to the forum!

Looking forward to your future contributions.

Thanks for the link on sharpening... you can never know too much on that topic.

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