how would you make a fully upholstered chair ?

[JDarvall]

been putting it off. cause I got do it quickly, and whats good enough sort of thing.

gotta make 2 of them bit like the ones in the picture.

I've never made an upholstered chair before....... and I haven't got one to pull apart...

Any quick tips on she'll be right joinery, cause its covered and nobody will see it ......sort of thing.

[IanW]

Jake - haven't done one just like that, nearly all the upholstered dining chairs I've done had slip seats. But I was once asked to make a copy of a rather ugly overstuffed design to complete an inherited set, and also a wing chair a while back, & found it helpful to consult with the upholsterer beforehand. In the pretty crappy scanned pic, you can see that I used pine for the non-show parts. It was ok in this context, as I chose clean, straight-grained bits & the upholster reckoned it would take nails well. But I made sure all of the M&T joints were done to the best of my ability, with generous glueing surfaces. I would recommend doing the best joinery you can, on yours, for several reasons:
1. The legs to rails joints are on their own on your model, so you need to be confident they can cop the strains & stresses a dining chair has to tolerate.
2. Once the stuffing & upholstery goes on, it's a major drama to get at the joints if any corrective surgery is needed.
3. Your reputation as a chairmaker can be badly tarnished by just one little joint failure. :C

Cheers,

[JDarvall]

I'm on the same wavelength Ian.......The problem is Im not really getting paid enough to do a good job on it. Shouldn't have taken it on. But will do it properly. put my name on it etc.

Still curious what typically done under the upholstery of such chairs. I'm pretty sure mostly its not M&T. more like lots of screws, epoxy....threaded inserts and bolting I'm thinking.

anyway....

When I get over the windsors, I wouldn't mind making chairs like these...loud flash looking chairs with interesting upholsterys giving me ideas....had a bit of surf and saved some pictures.

[specialist]

Lot's of screws, glue and butt joints and I have seen MANY wriggle nails bashed in for good measure. I would glue and screw, and make sure that there are enough gussets in the stressed parts of the chair.

Robert

[Woodwould]

Chairs suffer incredible stresses and require the best mortice and tennon joints if they're to survive. If you screw and nail the chairs together like the current factory made stuff, they'll end up on the nature strip in a commensurate period of time.

That last image of yours Jake shows you all the sub rails you'll need for the upholstery to be attached to. They should be morticed and tennoned properly too.

[IanW]

Being the belt AND braces type, I like M&T, corner blocks & a few scews, but must admit I've never thought of wriggle-nails, Robert. Not sure what advantages they could bring to a chair? :?

Yairs, Jake - I love Windsors, but if you like making your brain tired, the early Chippendale era is a good place to start with more complex joinery. Barely a straight component anywhere, & not a single joint meeting at 90 degrees. I did this wing chair many moons ago - different arm roll from the one in the pic you show, but they are all about as challenging. Particularly the upholstery - I didn't even consider tackling it, wimp that I am.

The Walnut armchair was slightly more of a brain-teaser - I made a pair to match the side chair beside it. But the upholstery was easy! :U

Once you get down to it though, they are really not that hard - getting the lines right on a Windsor was harder for me, so I reckon you'll have it figured out soon enough, without making too much extra kindling.....

Cheers,

[JDarvall]

Chairs suffer incredible stresses and require the best mortice and tennon joints if they're to survive. If you screw and nail the chairs together like the current factory made stuff, they'll end up on the nature strip in a commensurate period of time.

That last image of yours Jake shows you all the sub rails you'll need for the upholstery to be attached to. They should be morticed and tennoned properly too.

I agree......... its just that common problem uno. ..not being paid enough for it.

and then winging about it....and. the kids want Ipods, and the wife wants a new oven...:rolleyes::D and...

[JDarvall]

Being the belt AND braces type, I like M&T, corner blocks & a few scews, but must admit I've never thought of wriggle-nails, Robert. Not sure what advantages they could bring to a chair? :?

Yairs, Jake - I love Windsors, but if you like making your brain tired, the early Chippendale era is a good place to start with more complex joinery. Barely a straight component anywhere, & not a single joint meeting at 90 degrees. I did this wing chair many moons ago - different arm roll from the one in the pic you show, but they are all about as challenging. Particularly the upholstery - I didn't even consider tackling it, wimp that I am.

The Walnut armchair was slightly more of a brain-teaser - I made a pair to match the side chair beside it. But the upholstery was easy! :U

Once you get down to it though, they are really not that hard - getting the lines right on a Windsor was harder for me, so I reckon you'll have it figured out soon enough, without making too much extra kindling.....

Cheers,

I like the walnut chair you've shown. I've never been a big fan of those kind of chairs, but I like the proportions of that one for some reason.

The problem I have with traditional windsors are the straight aspects....like straight spindles. When you look from a side view they look too ridged to my eye, which has brought about a construction time issue in general for me , because I feel the need to bend it all....trying to make the chair look appealing from all angles. plenty of movement, and as far removed from the freeken joinery work I'm used to as possible. So over everything needing to be straight and square cause it accomidates the machines. leads to boring designs...BUT you can make a passable living that way. kids get Ipods and the wife gets a new oven.

[Clinton1]

Jake,
WouldWood knows best, and who am I to disagree?... but I'd put another thought to you... not disagreeing but disagreeing? :? :D

My Chesterfield lounge and wingback chair have a "my lifetime warranty", made in WA with a Jarrah frame.
After I got one, I managed to see a 'cutaway' display version, which may have scared me off if I'd seen it first.
Put together with epoxy and self drilling screws, not a mortice and tenon in sight. This company has been around decades, and they offer a 'lifetime of purchaser warranty' as standard. I got mine about 10 years ago, and several house moves later, the chairs and the company still survive. The warranty also covers 'commercial use'.
That makes me think they are onto something.

But, back to the top... WouldWood knows best....and what do I know?

[JDarvall]

Hi Clinton,

I'm not really shore what to say on that other than its complicated I spose. sounds like one of those topics that can be argued about...and never resolved.

I see your point though.

The chairs have been already drawn up for me with basic dimentions. I just wanted a few cutaways I spose.

how you going anyway ?

[Clinton1]

I'm not really shore what to say on that other than its complicated I spose. sounds like one of those topics that can be argued about...and never resolved.
Thats a smart answer Jake.

How am I going?
Well, still haven't gotten up to Kyogle to catch the Jake in action.
Otherwise... still 'hardly human'... but getting closer. :D

Seriously.
My thought is that WW's opinion about chairs should be taken in the same light as apricotripper's opinion in regards to moulding planes... e.g. follow it as gospel or figure out a better way for yourself. Which you seem to do quite well.

Is this where you need to figure out the apricotripper 'cost effective solution'? I don't think I can contribute too much thats of use...

[Elill]

We discussed these very issues in the "domino alternative (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f11/domino-alternative-115551/)" thread.

I came to the conclusion that half joints, glued and then later doweled were the way to go. I've not started it yet but that's what I'll be doing....no screws. Basically the more dowels and long grain/long grain joints the better

First week in Aug I'll start our lounge....here's hoping it'll work (hardwood 2x4 frame)

[IanW]

Clinton - I would be the last person to argue that there is only one way of doing anything, and of course one has to find ways of making furniture that don't send you broke, if you are doing it to pay the bills. Believe me, I've been there (& failed) so I'm not entirely theoretical.... :U

I think a chesterfield is a slightly different animal from a chair like Jake shows - short legs & broader stance are much easier to brace & re-inforce & in that case, glue blocks & metal fixings may well be adequate. A dining chair with a single set of rails to connect the front & back legs is asking for trouble if the rail-leg joints aren't adequate. I wish I had a $ for every failed side-rail to back leg joint I've ever seen!

So I stand by what I said - use what you believe to be the best joinery you know, to ensure the longevity of the piece, if you value your reputation. Just what joinery that is is up to the maker to decide, but if I were doing the deciding, I would be influenced by what has worked for hundreds of years rather than a dozen or so....
:;
Cheers,

[Lignum]

I came to the conclusion that half joints, glued and then later doweled were the way to go.

Wouldnt use a halving join in a million years. As woodwould pointed out the stress is enormous. But what needs to be taken into account big time is the modern synthetic webbing used has unbelievable tension on your frame/joins. It will pull apart anything not properly made. M&Ts are the best, Dominos if you have access are good, Dowels are borderline but fine if that’s all you have, forget the rest. Just make sure you corner block (and the upper back rail and mid rail if you don’t M&T or Domino because of the webbing tension will rip them apart in no time) and have no sharp corners that will cause havoc with the upholstery.

Also, take a prototype or good sketch to an upholsterer to make sure they can do it according to your design, as they are fussy and a weird mob who can be extremely difficult to work with.

Domino, corner blocked example below.

[Elill]

sorry meant a Lap joint - glued and doweled through.

No webbing in my case, rather springs, like an inner sprung bed

[Lignum]

sorry meant a Lap joint - glued and doweled through.

No webbing in my case, rather springs, like an inner sprung bed

Depends on the application, but halving/lap same thing. And they still web over and under springs.

Here is an old sprung and a repro waiting to be sprung.

[JDarvall]

Wouldnt use a halving join in a million years. As woodwould pointed out the stress is enormous. But what needs to be taken into account big time is the modern synthetic webbing used has unbelievable tension on your frame/joins. It will pull apart anything not properly made. M&Ts are the best, Dominos if you have access are good, Dowels are borderline but fine if that’s all you have, forget the rest. Just make sure you corner block (and the upper back rail and mid rail if you don’t M&T or Domino because of the webbing tension will rip them apart in no time) and have no sharp corners that will cause havoc with the upholstery.

Also, take a prototype or good sketch to an upholsterer to make sure they can do it according to your design, as they are fussy and a weird mob who can be extremely difficult to work with.

Domino, corner blocked example below.

thanks for the photo. Its a fiddly special order by an enthusiastic customer sort of thing thats too fiddly for the local chairfactory to be bothered about. So they've got me to do it.

The design given to me is similar to the one you showed, but is armless.

the biggest difference is the back is formed by about 20mm curved ply. Ply was provided to me.

the plys introduced strength problems I feel cause its just gota be attached to the back rail only 90mm wide....uno, where the pressure goes when you lean back on a chair. Well, there's no strength there, as you get from the leg continuing up to the back in one piece.

I was given a handful of threaded inserts.......'use these Jake, bolt it with epoxy..good and strong. no worries' :rolleyes::D

its hard to see how else to do it though.

I'm halfway through making the chairs. doing M&T. plunge router mortises just off fence, and tenon cheeks off table saw/drop saw combination. square tenons in round ended mortises. pretty quick...and still M&T joinery :- woodwind ?

just not looking forward to that sea of screws and epoxy on the ply. Glue in big corner blocks back there I spose.

With that chair pictured, I spose you cut out ply seats for the upholsterer ? just sitting on top the corner blocks like that ? ....I have no idea whose upholstering it, and am over trying to get more info. fiddly jobs too small to talk about apparently. like extracting teeth.

[AlexS]

Re the upholstery (not that I've done a lot), you can buy various grades of foam, an some upholsterers use a soft grade on top of a firmer one. Also, I was shown that you get a nicer shape by putting the chamfer on the foam on the underside then pulling the foam down. Does that make sense?

[JDarvall]

Re the upholstery (not that I've done a lot), you can buy various grades of foam, an some upholsterers use a soft grade on top of a firmer one. Also, I was shown that you get a nicer shape by putting the chamfer on the foam on the underside then pulling the foam down. Does that make sense?

I think I get it.

I'm not doing the upholstry though.

what I'd like to know also is what detail I should do to the chairs for them. rounding edges just right etc. the little details they like.

[Woodwould]

what I'd like to know also is what detail I should do to the chairs for them. rounding edges just right etc. the little details they like.
As Lig mentioned, chamfered edges make the upholstery sit better and are kinder to the fabric, extending its life somewhat.

I chamfered the edges of the sofa frame I posted on the forum a while ago. Some of the images will give you an idea of the degree required, but your best bet is to speak to the actual upholsterer who will be doing the work.

I once walked into an upholsterer's and saw him going over a chair with a hand-held electric planer!

[Elill]

Heres a good example of what I was talking about, well sort of but different:

http://www.josephsupholstery.com.au/thumbnaillarge/SprungFrame.jpg

[JDarvall]

thanks kindly for the advice. and the effort to upload pictures.

ta.

[Lignum]

thanks kindly for the advice. and the effort to upload pictures.

ta.

Look forward to seeing your final chair pic posted:)

[JDarvall]

Look forward to seeing your final chair pic posted:)

ok.....but please remember its not my design.

I would never dream of making anything like this.........I am NOT responsible. ok :D