RobTro
13th June 2010, 05:34 PM
I just got some new chisels on Friday. They are Yamahiro chisels that I bought in Osaka In Japan. I have posted about them on the hand tools forum here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/some-new-chisels-119194/) .
139275
Here I'd like to share my experience of settign the hoops and doming the top of the handle.
I should point out that I live in Japan, near Osaka. I have been looking for some chisels for a long time and finally went ahead and spent some money.
As I said in the other post, the Yamahiro chisels were recomended over the Tasai chisels even though they were a little cheaper. I could have gotten the black finish but for a few more yen each, I got the polish finish. I think they look pretty good.
The chisels have single hollow backs and are all bevel edge chisels.
For this post I thought someone might find it useful if I posted about setting up the hoop and handle.
I checked out different posts and sites about setting hoops etc and I also have Toshio Odate's book so I did a little experimenting to see what was the best way to dome the heads.
Setting the hoops
I wanted to get some practice before working on my new chisels so I set up the two mortice chisels and my old chisels first
- I used Ouuchi's little hoop setting hat;
139274
This made setting the hoops so easy and if you are in Japan, I would highly recommend spending the 850 yen on it. If you are outside of Japan, I am not sure where you would pick one up, so you may have to use the traditional approach.
Other chisels - Mortice and my old chisels
My original chisels had not been set properly as I bought them when I first came to Japan and I didn't know much about setting up Japanese chisels. So, the rings were a bit beaten-up. As practice for my new chisels I removed the rings using some wood and a hammer. They had an inside knife edge about 2mm wide (pounded flat over 14 years- never got around to doing it properly even after I found out about Japanese chisels) which had to be removed.
So I grabbed a round file and started filing away. This took quite some time actually because the metal was quite hard to file. Once I got the inside lip down, I filed a slight chamfer at the bottom and top (bottom being bigger) of the ring as indicated in Odate's book.
I then test fitted the ring and found that it wouldn't set easily and would need a bit of work on the handle. Odate says that the hoop should "slide down the handle easily". I could put mine on but needed to go a bit further before final setting. My options were to hammer the wood a little to compress the fibres, or to romove a little wood with a chisel, knife or sandpaper.
I decided to redo my handles, so I sanded them back and then checked the fit again. If you are thinking of sanding your handles, do so before fitting your hoop.
I had read on one of the Japanese tools forums where one bloke recomended leaving the chisels out in the sun to remove moisture and shrink the wood, so I did this to see what it would work like. It does reduce the diameter of the handle. I'm no expert but maybe check your handle wood species for the effects of sunlight. The colour might change a bit for some woods but I am unsure.
My chisels still needed something so I just tapped around the handle to compress the fibres as indicated on this forum. This worked well, actually too well as the ring set too far down. So, don't get carried away with compressing the wood. I found many light taps were far better than heavier taps. Light taps and check often.
On one chisel, I found that I had about 5mm or so of handle above the hoop. This ended up being too much and I ended up using a very fine tooth dozuki to cut a couple millimetres off in the end and then reform the top. So, the hoop shouldn't go too far down.
For the other two mortise chisels and my other old chisel I just used the sun treatment and some light tapping to compress the wood. Once the moisture content gets back to normal in the wood and the compressed fibres recover, the hoops should be well and truely set.
Yamahiro chisels
Many site recommend taking off the hoop (ring) and filing the inside to ensure that it is smooth and there are no burs etc. After taking off one ring, with difficulty, I found that the rings on these Yamahiro's were smooth and nothing needed to be done with them. They were also pretty well in place new; that is, they were level with the end of the chisel and firm. They only needed to be tapped down a further 1/64" to 1/32" (less than 1mm) to be ready to mushroom the end of the handle. The workmanship was great.
So, I didn't bother removing the rest and just set the hoops with the "hat" and then went to the next stage. For my Yamahiro chisels, since the hoops were a perfect match for the handles, I didn't need to put them out in the sun or to compress the wood fibres, so they just had to be set using the "hat". (But you probably should check each ring to be sure - especially on cheaper chisels)
They actually set very firmly with a great fit leaving 1/64" to 1/32" (about 1mm or under) only above the hoop, which was I found from practicing doming the tops of the other chisels to be just right.
So setting the hoops for the Yamahiro's was SO easy.
Mushrooming the top of the handles
The process for this was to, after setting the hoop, soak the wood in water and then mushrom the wood with hammer. I used a glass and a spring clamp like on toolsforwookingwood site, and just had the wood avove the ring in the water.
The first chisel I left the wood in the water for about 30 minutes as recommended by others.
On one of the Japanese tools forums I read about how one guy chamfered the top of the handle before working on the handle with a hammer to mushroom it out. I worked the edge of the handle around with the hammer. I then tried another chisel without chamfering the top edge of the handle. The edges did feather out a bit and it was harder to get the wood to close over the top of the ring, closing any gap. But maybe that may have been the one with too much wood extending past the top of the hoop.
I then decided to recheck Odate's book; and he points out that you should tap all around the top of the chisel with the CORNER of the hammer. And you only need to dip the end of the handle in water.
So I changed my method-
While I was working on one handle (mushrooming it), I had another sitting in the water. It ended up only being about 4 or 5 minutes or whatever it took to finish one handle. This also allowed me to just start work on the next chisel - making a good work process.
Also I started not hitting the edge of the handle with the flat of the hammer at the beginning. I would work around the handle top hitting with the edge of the hammer head on an inside line. Maybe about 3 to 6 millimetres in from the circumference, moving within this range. This worked very well; forcing the wood to mushroom out and not get all feathery on the edges. When mostly done I the worked all over, and started on the edges to close the wood down to the hoop.
I had a good routine and understood what was happening so started on the Yamahiro's.
- Water, edge of hammer all around and then all over with the flat of the hammer to get a good shape.
139272
139273
The bottom picture is of my older chisels, they have more rounded ends due to there being more wood projecting past the top of the hoops. But after shaping and a bit of sandpaper and maybe some oil finish they would be nice and smooth and pretty comfy in the hand as they are so round. So maybe if you want a bit more curve and roundness for hand work rather than just hammer work, then this may be the way to go for you. Anyway, more wood past the top of the ring, the rounder the top. it will mushroom over the top of the ring. Short and it will fill the top of the ring wich has space for this.
Hope this might help other trying to set up for the future.
Even if I did something not right, other can point that out and it's still useful.
Rob
139275
Here I'd like to share my experience of settign the hoops and doming the top of the handle.
I should point out that I live in Japan, near Osaka. I have been looking for some chisels for a long time and finally went ahead and spent some money.
As I said in the other post, the Yamahiro chisels were recomended over the Tasai chisels even though they were a little cheaper. I could have gotten the black finish but for a few more yen each, I got the polish finish. I think they look pretty good.
The chisels have single hollow backs and are all bevel edge chisels.
For this post I thought someone might find it useful if I posted about setting up the hoop and handle.
I checked out different posts and sites about setting hoops etc and I also have Toshio Odate's book so I did a little experimenting to see what was the best way to dome the heads.
Setting the hoops
I wanted to get some practice before working on my new chisels so I set up the two mortice chisels and my old chisels first
- I used Ouuchi's little hoop setting hat;
139274
This made setting the hoops so easy and if you are in Japan, I would highly recommend spending the 850 yen on it. If you are outside of Japan, I am not sure where you would pick one up, so you may have to use the traditional approach.
Other chisels - Mortice and my old chisels
My original chisels had not been set properly as I bought them when I first came to Japan and I didn't know much about setting up Japanese chisels. So, the rings were a bit beaten-up. As practice for my new chisels I removed the rings using some wood and a hammer. They had an inside knife edge about 2mm wide (pounded flat over 14 years- never got around to doing it properly even after I found out about Japanese chisels) which had to be removed.
So I grabbed a round file and started filing away. This took quite some time actually because the metal was quite hard to file. Once I got the inside lip down, I filed a slight chamfer at the bottom and top (bottom being bigger) of the ring as indicated in Odate's book.
I then test fitted the ring and found that it wouldn't set easily and would need a bit of work on the handle. Odate says that the hoop should "slide down the handle easily". I could put mine on but needed to go a bit further before final setting. My options were to hammer the wood a little to compress the fibres, or to romove a little wood with a chisel, knife or sandpaper.
I decided to redo my handles, so I sanded them back and then checked the fit again. If you are thinking of sanding your handles, do so before fitting your hoop.
I had read on one of the Japanese tools forums where one bloke recomended leaving the chisels out in the sun to remove moisture and shrink the wood, so I did this to see what it would work like. It does reduce the diameter of the handle. I'm no expert but maybe check your handle wood species for the effects of sunlight. The colour might change a bit for some woods but I am unsure.
My chisels still needed something so I just tapped around the handle to compress the fibres as indicated on this forum. This worked well, actually too well as the ring set too far down. So, don't get carried away with compressing the wood. I found many light taps were far better than heavier taps. Light taps and check often.
On one chisel, I found that I had about 5mm or so of handle above the hoop. This ended up being too much and I ended up using a very fine tooth dozuki to cut a couple millimetres off in the end and then reform the top. So, the hoop shouldn't go too far down.
For the other two mortise chisels and my other old chisel I just used the sun treatment and some light tapping to compress the wood. Once the moisture content gets back to normal in the wood and the compressed fibres recover, the hoops should be well and truely set.
Yamahiro chisels
Many site recommend taking off the hoop (ring) and filing the inside to ensure that it is smooth and there are no burs etc. After taking off one ring, with difficulty, I found that the rings on these Yamahiro's were smooth and nothing needed to be done with them. They were also pretty well in place new; that is, they were level with the end of the chisel and firm. They only needed to be tapped down a further 1/64" to 1/32" (less than 1mm) to be ready to mushroom the end of the handle. The workmanship was great.
So, I didn't bother removing the rest and just set the hoops with the "hat" and then went to the next stage. For my Yamahiro chisels, since the hoops were a perfect match for the handles, I didn't need to put them out in the sun or to compress the wood fibres, so they just had to be set using the "hat". (But you probably should check each ring to be sure - especially on cheaper chisels)
They actually set very firmly with a great fit leaving 1/64" to 1/32" (about 1mm or under) only above the hoop, which was I found from practicing doming the tops of the other chisels to be just right.
So setting the hoops for the Yamahiro's was SO easy.
Mushrooming the top of the handles
The process for this was to, after setting the hoop, soak the wood in water and then mushrom the wood with hammer. I used a glass and a spring clamp like on toolsforwookingwood site, and just had the wood avove the ring in the water.
The first chisel I left the wood in the water for about 30 minutes as recommended by others.
On one of the Japanese tools forums I read about how one guy chamfered the top of the handle before working on the handle with a hammer to mushroom it out. I worked the edge of the handle around with the hammer. I then tried another chisel without chamfering the top edge of the handle. The edges did feather out a bit and it was harder to get the wood to close over the top of the ring, closing any gap. But maybe that may have been the one with too much wood extending past the top of the hoop.
I then decided to recheck Odate's book; and he points out that you should tap all around the top of the chisel with the CORNER of the hammer. And you only need to dip the end of the handle in water.
So I changed my method-
While I was working on one handle (mushrooming it), I had another sitting in the water. It ended up only being about 4 or 5 minutes or whatever it took to finish one handle. This also allowed me to just start work on the next chisel - making a good work process.
Also I started not hitting the edge of the handle with the flat of the hammer at the beginning. I would work around the handle top hitting with the edge of the hammer head on an inside line. Maybe about 3 to 6 millimetres in from the circumference, moving within this range. This worked very well; forcing the wood to mushroom out and not get all feathery on the edges. When mostly done I the worked all over, and started on the edges to close the wood down to the hoop.
I had a good routine and understood what was happening so started on the Yamahiro's.
- Water, edge of hammer all around and then all over with the flat of the hammer to get a good shape.
139272
139273
The bottom picture is of my older chisels, they have more rounded ends due to there being more wood projecting past the top of the hoops. But after shaping and a bit of sandpaper and maybe some oil finish they would be nice and smooth and pretty comfy in the hand as they are so round. So maybe if you want a bit more curve and roundness for hand work rather than just hammer work, then this may be the way to go for you. Anyway, more wood past the top of the ring, the rounder the top. it will mushroom over the top of the ring. Short and it will fill the top of the ring wich has space for this.
Hope this might help other trying to set up for the future.
Even if I did something not right, other can point that out and it's still useful.
Rob