Accoustic Insulation for roller doors?

[Earthwhile]

Hi all,

I live in an intentional community in Auckland NZ, and have been working to turn the shed into a workshop. Noise is an issue for the urban environment both for our residents and our nearby neighbours.

I have lined our metal shed (6x6m) with accoustic polyester insulation and put ply over that, 12mm on walls on 3mm on ceilings.. The windows now have 3mm clear acrylic on the inside for a crude double glaze - again for accoustic purposes.

The only part not insulated is the side door and the two roller doors - these face our community so are the most desirous side to sound insulate.

I hear they sell roller doors that are sound insulating now, but they likely cost thousands and I've just used up all the money on the fit out so far.


Any ideas on what can be or has been done?

Cheers

Ron

[Harry72]

Rip out the roller and put in some nice solid swinging doors, typically to reduce sound being transfered through a material will be by increasing its weight(lead is one of the best...)or by introducing an airgap between two surfaces... both cant be done to a roller door unless its designed with sound proofing in mind.
Anyway workshop doors would be a good 1st project for your workshop:D

[Manuka Jock]

Move from there and come down here to the Mainland :U
There's lots of room , you don't have to live in someone else's back pocket , and you can make as much noise as you like :2tsup:

[Earthwhile]

Thanks guys but neither of those are in the realm of practical solutions for us.

I've been thinking along the lines of portable screens on casters or hanging carpet on a roll up high that can be pulled down as a screen. Neither seem terribly practical and given we don't have any dust extraction as yet any carpet would be sucking up loads and releasing it when raised lowered.

I also thought of a vinyl curtain, the type that hangs in vertical strips in cool stores and similar places, but it's likely not cheap and perhaps doesn't muffle sound a great deal either.

The best answer I can arrive at is heading for the dark side - traditional woodworking without electrickery - but that isn't always an option...

[Mulgabill]

In an other life I was involved in Community Radio and when doing a studio renovation we used carpet, sheet foam rubber or polystyrene sheets for sound proofing, however, as you point out dust may be a problem with both the above solutions.
Maybe you could cover the sound proofing with something like plastic sheeting.

[Rattrap]

I like the idea of portable doors on casters myself - perhaps concertina style? I want to line my own shed but for heating reasons rather than noise & i also have an issue with the side door & both roller doors & had vaguely tossed around the idea of some bi-fold doors might work. Should also be easy to move them out of the way to get the car in & out too.

I'm not sure how a roll of carpet or other could work unless the roll is slung below & behind the roller door - which would also eat into the roller doorway height.

I guess it all depends on how often you use the roller door & how much cash is available to throw at the project.

[Earthwhile]

Well we do want to be able to use the doors frequently as this is the main access for materials and larger tools. The side door has a tree and bamboo grove close to it which don't allow much clearance for swinging a 90 degree turn with longer objects. And I'm setting up the dropsaw and drill press on the side wall so that long objects such as bamboo culms can poke out the roller door if need be.

So I want my cake and eat it really, and then for free or on the cheap. Like the Rolling Stones song: "You can't always get what you want..."

Still open to ideas and I like the concertina concept. If I found some the right height going cheap installing them would be the best shot.

[Chris Parks]

A bit late but here goes. Frame an internal set of hinged doors inside the roller doors. The doors could open into the roller door opening when it is raised though of course the doorway would be lower than normal. The framing could be internally soundproofed before cladding and this would help as well.

[banjoping]

How about some dynamat?? (the adhesive mat used in soundproofing cars0

[Earthwhile]

Not familiar with Dynamat but are you suggesting it could go onto the inside of the roller doors or use it as a curtain?

[banjoping]

Earthwhile- I am not really familiar with it either. I was thinking it could go straight to the back of the door- however I am uncertain how bulky it is and may not be possible.

[Harry72]

I am familiar with dynamat... it wont do hardly any thing at all on a width of steel like a roller door and as mentioned before it will considerably increase the diameter of the door when its raised.

The curtain of carpet is about your only solution that will work at a cheap cost.

[Mike Busby]

Cheap and nasty - bubble wrap gaffer taped to the insides of the fixed doors.

Maybe it could work on the roller doors too.

For an investment of $50.00 you could be onto a winner.

The only problem would be stopping people like myself popping the bloody things.

I'm sure I have seen an advertisment for acoustic roller door thingos somehwere.

[Mike Busby]

Home Insulation - DJC Distribution All Insulation (http://www.allinsulation.com.au/rollerdoorinsulation.html) it is just insulation but uses air gap which MIGHT be a bit quieter. Click the link and ask them via an email.

[wm460]

Home Insulation - DJC Distribution All Insulation (http://www.allinsulation.com.au/rollerdoorinsulation.html) it is just insulation but uses air gap which MIGHT be a bit quieter. Click the link and ask them via an email.

You bet to it, :D
was thinking of using this product on my shed, but decide to wait till i move and build my dream shed.

[Graziano]

Buy a cheap sound level meter from Dick Smith or Ebay and experiment with different materials. You'd want something that mechanically vibrates when hit by sound waves to give up the energy as movement. Foil lined mineral wool would be something I'd experiment with, the sound waves would get partially bounced off the flat foil and the remaining energy would be transmitted through the foil into the fibres which would vibrate and dissipate some of the sound. It could be attached to the roller door and roll up with it but may fall apart after some use.

[BobL]

Buy a cheap sound level meter from Dick Smith or Ebay and experiment with different materials.

If only noise level measurements were that simple. A few years ago I visited the basement of RMIT on Swanston St and saw the gear that is needed to test practical sound absorbance. The tests take place inside a massively thick walled walk in concrete bunker divided in half by a wall made from the sound absorber - the sound source goes on one side and the detector on the other and a full frequency scan in made at different sound pressure levels.

As others have said - in most cases in the end it comes down to sheer mass of the wall used. Either a really really, thick wall of softer stuff like wood, a thick solid double brick wall or a thinner lead wall. This is why single layers of foils, bubble wrap or home insulation are not every worth trying.

[Graziano]

If only noise level measurements were that simple. A few years ago I visited the basement of RMIT on Swanston St and saw the gear that is needed to test practical sound absorbance. The tests take place inside a massively thick walled walk in concrete bunker divided in half by a wall made from the sound absorber - the sound source goes on one side and the detector on the other and a full frequency scan in made at different sound pressure levels.

As others have said - in most cases in the end it comes down to sheer mass of the wall used. Either a really really, thick wall of softer stuff like wood, a thick solid double brick wall or a thinner lead wall. This is why single layers of foils, bubble wrap or home insulation are not every worth trying.

Ahh well, time for active noise cancelling then....or large conductive diaphragms in a vertical magnetic field connected to generate power from noise :rolleyes:. I'm always fascinated with the field of thermoacoustics and generating power from sound, unfortunately these are tuned devices. If you wanted to take actual spectral sound measurements outside a shed then a soundcard laptop with the right freeware and a microphone would be enough to do the job. You're right about lead sheeting it's used for noise reduction, it's dense and not stiff enough to vibrate as a panel: http://www.midlandlead.co.uk/products/sheet.html