PDA

View Full Version : Gavels



Tiger
20th July 2010, 10:37 AM
I have over the years tried a couple of gavels and found they can be very time-consuming and finicky to do properly. I have observed some at places like the Woodworking show and noticed (on close inspection) that even there, the gavel head seems slightly angled rather than sitting square on the handle. Other thing I noticed was the evidence of chucking (or drive centers) marks left on the gavel head.

This raises 2 questions. How do guarantee that the hole in the head of the gavel is drilled perfectly square so that the handle will be square to it and how do you jam chuck something like a gavel head when the area of contact (the concave striking sections) is such a small area and most of the gavel head is unsupported?

Rifleman1776
20th July 2010, 10:46 AM
I put the head in a small V shaped holder on the drill press table, designed just for square drilling into round things.
Yes, I leave a small dimple on the heads when parting off then sand.
I like to make mine with sturdier handles than the commercial ones I see. The guys in the clubs I belong to really like to pound hard.
Most difficult part of making gavels for my organizations is they dissapear. Most of my friends are pretty old ( even older than me :wink: ) and sometimes die in office. I think their families just keep the gavels thinking they were presented as momentos.
If you get started gavel making, you can keep busy just keeping up with those that 'dissapear'.

Manuka Jock
20th July 2010, 10:56 AM
I have over the years tried a couple of gavels and found they can be very time-consuming and finicky to do properly. I have observed some at places like the Woodworking show and noticed (on close inspection) that even there, the gavel head seems slightly angled rather than sitting square on the handle. Other thing I noticed was the evidence of chucking (or drive centers) marks left on the gavel head.

This raises 2 questions. How do guarantee that the hole in the head of the gavel is drilled perfectly square so that the handle will be square to it and how do you jam chuck something like a gavel head when the area of contact (the concave striking sections) is such a small area and most of the gavel head is unsupported?

Tiger , have you tried drilling the hole in the squared block before turning it ?

Tiger
20th July 2010, 11:00 AM
Thanks, Rifleman. I actually have a metal v-block just like yours somewhere in the shed. Good thing about your system is that you can postion the hole exactly centred. I have heard of the method where you drill first but you need to be a fairly good turner so that you get the right symmetrical look and your cuts have to be even.

Regarding the ends, I have tried leaving the small dimples and then sanding but to me it still looks obvious how the piece was held, jam chucking is the way to go but has proved difficult.

Tiger
20th July 2010, 11:10 AM
Tiger , have you tried drilling the hole in the squared block before turning it ?

Jock, I saw this after I had posted the other response. I do remember trying to do this but I was slightly off with my beads and the gavel was a bit asymmetrical. Rifleman's method at least lets us determine where the hole is going to go, so even if you're an average turner like me then you can position it where it looks balanced.

Manuka Jock
20th July 2010, 11:25 AM
Jock, I saw this after I had posted the other response. I do remember trying to do this but I was slightly off with my beads and the gavel was a bit asymmetrical. Rifleman's method at least lets us determine where the hole is going to go, so even if you're an average turner like me then you can position it where it looks balanced.
Fair point .
bluddy good one actually :U

The V block looks to be the thing

KenW
20th July 2010, 12:49 PM
Tiger, I always drill the hole first. This prevents any chipping when drilling the hole in a completed piece. After drilling the hole I place a scrap piece of wood back in the hole with hot melt glue, this keeps the edges of the hole sharp while turning. If you mark out your work using a common center line, then turn from this center line your work will turn out symmetrical.
Turn the Gavel head using a chuck, that way you will only have one end to reverse and finish. There are a few ways of holding the work to finish the end, the simplest for you would be to drill a hole in a scrap bit of wood (mounted in you chuck). The hole would need to be a tight- ish fit on the outside of the head, and the diameter of the largest section of the head. If you keep the center of the head just a bit larger in diameter then the decorations at the ends, this will make reversing easier. To hold the head in the scap wood, use three drops of hotmelt glue. To get the head out of the scrap, apply Metho or Acertone to the glue to soften it.

Tiger
20th July 2010, 12:56 PM
Thanks, Ken. I like the idea of the hot-melt glue but does it stain the finish at all?

RETIRED
20th July 2010, 04:39 PM
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/how-drill-perpendicular-around-circumference-accurately-12680/

This is the way we get straight holes. Post 11 & 12.

KenW
20th July 2010, 08:41 PM
Thanks, Ken. I like the idea of the hot-melt glue but does it stain the finish at all?
Hot-melt has never stained the finish on any of the woods that I have used.

KenW
20th July 2010, 08:45 PM
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/how-drill-perpendicular-around-circumference-accurately-12680/

This is the way we get straight holes. Post 11 & 12.
Follow these directions to make an easy job hard.

RETIRED
20th July 2010, 11:02 PM
Follow these directions to make an easy job hard.This from a man who sands for six weeks.:wink::D

joe greiner
20th July 2010, 11:12 PM
Suggestion for turning the ends of the head:

Turn the body of the head very slightly smaller than the inside diameter of pvc pipe, between centers if you like, leaving nubs to be removed. With a block of wood mounted on a faceplate or in a scroll chuck, turn a tenon to match the inside diameter of the pipe. Attach a length of pipe to the tenon, e.g. with wood screws. Cut 4, 6, or 8 slots in the pipe, long enough to hold the head, with its end protruding. Clamp the head in the custom chuck with a hose clamp to turn the ends.

I think Vern (ttit) uses something like this for turning eggs.

Cheers,
Joe

Tim the Timber Turner
21st July 2010, 08:38 AM
This from a man who sands for six weeks.:wink::D

Fair suck of the sauce bottle .:o

Ken has never sanded for six weeks, ever.:no:

Three weeks maybe.:)

Cheers

oldiephred
21st July 2010, 08:55 AM
Not that you need any more ideas with all of the good ones thus far, but, I wrap a piece of heavy sandpaper around the gavel (or whatever similar item) and grip it lightly in the chuck for finishing the ends.

Rum Pig
21st July 2010, 08:56 AM
I just finished making one of these, I will post photos on the week end.

I drilled while my blank was square I just spent my time marking it out but I can see the advantage of drilling while round if you had a jig.
I hand sanded the dimples off the head it did not take to long and I waited till I had finished turning for the day and sat down with a nice cold rum or 2 or 3. I would say less than a hour but the results look good to me.

Ed Reiss
21st July 2010, 11:51 AM
This from a man who sands for six weeks.:wink::D

...and has an issue with coming back down a ladder the painless way:C:D

Frank&Earnest
21st July 2010, 01:00 PM
Ah, this brings back memories. I must have been the only Lions Club president who presented his club with a gavel instead of the other way around. The official one had "disappeared", as now we know happens regularly in certain places. :D

That was 15 years ago, the job was done on my ancient B&D drill attachment lathe and, yes, the handle is very slightly out of centre... not bad for a hole drilled on the square blank with the hand drill. They are still using it.

RETIRED
21st July 2010, 01:05 PM
...and has an issue with coming back down a ladder the painless way:C:DYep. he thinks he can fly.:D

arose62
21st July 2010, 09:27 PM
Terribly sorry to drag this back on topic, but.....

The other way I've seen suggested (and tried once) is to use a large jam chuck to hold the gavel head at 90 degrees and hold the drill bit in the tail stock.

This guarantees the hole is centred on the head, and perpendicular to the head.

See here
http://www.turnedtreasures.com/pdf_pages/gavel_turning_pdf.pdf

Pages 10 and 11

Cheers,
Andrew

KenW
22nd July 2010, 05:52 PM
Fair suck of the sauce bottle .:o

Ken has never sanded for six weeks, ever.:no:

Three weeks maybe.:)

Cheers
That's it Tim, you tell him.
However it did get close to six weeks on one piece that I entered in this years competition. In my defence, it was a completely new turning style. The next one won't take as long, maybe.

Frank&Earnest
22nd July 2010, 06:30 PM
... but did you start with 80 grit? :wink:

Frank&Earnest
22nd July 2010, 06:38 PM
Terribly sorry to drag this back on topic, but.....

The other way I've seen suggested (and tried once) is to use a large jam chuck to hold the gavel head at 90 degrees and hold the drill bit in the tail stock.

This guarantees the hole is centred on the head, and perpendicular to the head.

See here
http://www.turnedtreasures.com/pdf_pages/gavel_turning_pdf.pdf

Pages 10 and 11

Cheers,
Andrew

I was thinking along these lines how I would do it now with a real lathe, but my idea was to start with the square blank held sideways between the self centring jaws, no need to make a jam chuck. Anybody sees any problem with that?

Manuka Jock
22nd July 2010, 06:56 PM
I was thinking along these lines how I would do it now with a real lathe, but my idea was to start with the square blank held sideways between the self centring jaws, no need to make a jam chuck. Anybody sees any problem with that?

Full circle huh ,
thats going back to drilling the hole on the square blank first eh .

:U

Tim the Timber Turner
22nd July 2010, 09:18 PM
That's it Tim, you tell him.
However it did get close to six weeks on one piece that I entered in this years competition. In my defence, it was a completely new turning style.

Not using tools Ken? Just sandpaper?::?

We'll have to get to introduce you to some real woodturning tools.:oo:

Nice shiney ones with wooden handles, just like the ones he uses.:cool:

You should find your abrasive costs will be reduced heaps:roll:

Cheers

Tim:)

Spanner69
23rd July 2010, 10:56 AM
:worthless:

Want some photos of gavels and examples ....... please..... :U

Tiger
23rd July 2010, 10:58 AM
Thanks to all your responses on this.

In the end I drilled after I had made most of the gavel head and then using some mouse pad I held the gavel head in a vice and drilled right on centre. The jam chuck held surprisingly well given that it was only holding about 10 or so mm, but the piece did fly out once as I was cutting. I'm going to try the other method of drilling the hole first and see how that compares to drilling afterwards.

Had some Redgum around and this is the result.

Manuka Jock
23rd July 2010, 11:31 AM
Looks good to me Tiger :)

Cliff Rogers
23rd July 2010, 11:47 AM
Not using tools Ken? Just sandpaper?::?

We'll have to get to introduce you to some real woodturning tools.:oo:

Nice shiney ones with wooden handles, just like the ones he uses.:cool:

You should find your abrasive costs will be reduced heaps:roll:

Cheers

Tim:)
Haven't you seen Kens tools? :rolleyes:

BobL
23rd July 2010, 11:59 AM
:worthless:

Want some photos of gavels and examples ....... please..... :U

This is a simple one I made for my boss.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=68877&stc=1&d=1205062153

The gavel is WA Sheoak and the block is Tingle.

RETIRED
23rd July 2010, 12:02 PM
Here you go Spanner.

The Gavel Factory - Gavels, Gavel Awards & Plaques (http://www.gavelfactory.com/?source=googleaw)

Tiger
23rd July 2010, 11:27 PM
Looks good to me Tiger :)

Thanks Jock, now for the block.

SawDustSniffer
25th July 2010, 02:03 AM
:worthless:

Want some photos of gavels and examples ....... please..... :U

made this gavel a while back , burl (coolibah ? ) with jarrah and copper rings ( hammered out 3/4 copper pipe )
i placed the gavel head standing up in the jaws of the chuck wraped in cotton to drill the handle hole , it came out centred

Frank&Earnest
25th July 2010, 11:09 AM
I asked above whether anybody saw problems with drilling the square blank when centred by the chuck jaws and none was raised, but I think I found one myself: that any method that relies on the square requires the equipment for ensuring the accuracy of the square. Ensuring that the hole is perpendicular and centred on one face of the blank is not enough if the blank is then misaligned between centres. If one can rely only on the lathe, making an appropriate jam (or cottoned :wink:) chuck then appears to be the best option.

Manuka Jock
25th July 2010, 11:13 AM
Measuring to get the center spot , and then lining it up with the tailstock center was not a option ?

Other that drilling the square block first on a bench or a drill press that is

SawDustSniffer
25th July 2010, 12:31 PM
tear out would have been a problem with the burl head so i drilled the hole after , i just wiggled the head wrapped in cotton while i did the chuck up , only holding by 2 jaws ( 50mm deep 75mm diameter jaws ), then measured the sides of the outer jaws to make sure it was centred , it was

the jarrah parts go through the burls for strength , so the centre of the head is jarrah and the handle burl is only 2-3 mm thick with the jarrah stopping 1/2 from the end of the handle , i used "megapoxy 69" for glue , (clear )

arose62
25th July 2010, 06:21 PM
pics of mine....

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f40/what-ive-been-up-29518/#post281733
(biggest gavel)

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f40/my-first-box-31555/

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/latest-piece-gavel-14902/

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f69/my-first-efforts-43352/
(smallest gavel)

Cheers,
Andrew

Tiger
27th July 2010, 10:59 AM
Made another gavel using Ken's method this time where the hole was drilled first while the timber was square. Happy to say that the handle came out perfectly square to the gavel head. I should also say that I took a bit of time to ensure that the timber was perfectly square before I drilled but am happy with the result.

Andrew's solution with the large jam chuck would guarantee the handle being square to the gavel head but I didn't have a large enough jam chuck, might give that a try also and report back on it.

Sturdee
28th July 2010, 11:19 PM
Andrew's solution with the large jam chuck would guarantee the handle being square to the gavel head but I didn't have a large enough jam chuck, might give that a try also and report back on it.

Saw this site (http://aroundthewoods.com/accessories/articles/highjaws/jaws01.html) that shows how to make high jaws to hold your gavel for drilling.

Might help.


Peter.

Tiger
28th July 2010, 11:41 PM
Thanks Peter, good link.