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Grumpy John
23rd August 2010, 06:21 PM
Thanks to a heads up from Steck :2tsup:, I scored a trailer load of Silky Oak and what I think may be Birch (confirmation or alternatives appreciated). There are some good sized chunks there and the Bowl Saver will be getting a workout over the next few days.

145413 145414 145416

Does this look like Birch?
145415

rsser
23rd August 2010, 06:35 PM
Could be.

I know mature silver birch gets that interesting kind of staining around the heart.

Nice score.

Swap you some birch for black wattle if you're interested.

Grumpy John
23rd August 2010, 06:44 PM
...................................

Swap you some birch for black wattle if you're interested.


Done deal :shakehands:

Manuka Jock
23rd August 2010, 06:52 PM
Does this look like Birch?
145415
Dunno John
, the shape of that serrated leaf tells me no .
Another pic of an undamaged leaf laid out flat , and some catkins (seed cones ) will be a help .

Toymaker Len
23rd August 2010, 06:59 PM
The Birch could be White poplar if some of the bark has little black star shaped indentations.

Grumpy John
23rd August 2010, 07:34 PM
More clues/information:
Compared to the Silky Oak the "unsub" was probably 60% lighter, size for size.

hughie
23rd August 2010, 10:50 PM
There seems to be a few different and similar trees around.

Silky Oak (http://www.mrpuzzle.com.au/webcontent94.htm)

steck
24th August 2010, 12:16 AM
You are a lucky man !:2tsup: I didn't want the wood burners to get it!

I roughed out a bowl of the "alleged Birch" this arvo. I got quite wet while turning it! It was easy to turn and looks similar to oak at the moment. There is a bit of tannin in it as some of the lathe bed turned black.
To add some confusion to the debate here is a picture of Birch leaves and of American Beech!

Manuka Jock
24th August 2010, 12:27 AM
Steck , is this 'birch' looking a light orange sort of colour ?

DJ’s Timber
24th August 2010, 01:14 AM
The colouration of the fresh cut log and the leaf sample that GJ has provided makes me think it could be Red Alder (Alnus rubra) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alnus_rubra)

Manuka Jock
24th August 2010, 01:29 AM
Thats is what I was thinking . Here is one I prepared earlier :U
towards the end of last year .
It took a while to identify it . The usual suspects were named first , birch elm etc , until someone on here, said that it looked like red alder , and yep , it is .

[/URL][URL="http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f8/123702d1260161514-tree-timber-id-imgp2105.jpg"]http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f8/123702d1260161514t-tree-timber-id-imgp2105.jpg (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f8/123701d1260161461-tree-timber-id-imgp2109.jpg)

robo hippy
24th August 2010, 03:55 AM
I am not sure what it is. Doesn't look like birch to me, or red alder either. Bark looks similar to alder, but the leaf doesn't. Oh, well, you can always call it fire wood.

robo hippy

gtwilkins
24th August 2010, 05:39 AM
John,

Looks like an alder to me, big give away with alder is when freshly cut it turns orangey colour plus it gets brown about the heart.

E-Flora BC Vascular Plant Atlas Page (http://linnet.geog.ubc.ca/Atlas/Atlas.aspx?sciname=Alnus%20rubra&redblue=Both&lifeform=2)

Now with it being way down there it could be some kind of a hybrid.

Here's a section on maples and birches.

E-Flora Trees of British Columbia (http://www.geog.ubc.ca/biodiversity/eflora/E-FloraTreesofBritishColumbia.html)

Are these trees native or do you think they were imported?

Trevor

artme
24th August 2010, 08:04 AM
No matterwhat it's all wood and it's all good!!!:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

steck
24th August 2010, 08:50 AM
Steck , is this 'birch' looking a light orange sort of colour ?

The cut end of the log is definitely a light orange colour. The wood inside is paler.

Grumpy John
24th August 2010, 09:24 AM
Yesterday's stash laid out in all it's glory.
145502 145503


It's starting to look like the Birch is actually Alder as it's turning quite orange where it's been cut.
145504 145505 145506


It looks like there's a "ring in" in the woodpile. The log at the front of picture is neither Alder or Silky. I'll post some pics when I open it up.
145507 145508


Some of the Silky looks like it will be very interesting when it's opened up
145509 145510


I'm guessing that this lot (except for the log at the front) was cut down last weekend (21/22 Aug).

munruben
24th August 2010, 09:55 AM
Great stuff GJ:2tsup:

steck
24th August 2010, 11:46 AM
It looks like there's a "ring in" in the woodpile. The log at the front of picture is neither Alder or Silky. I'll post some pics when I open it up.

It looks like the ring in has some leaves attached. Can you post a close up photo as well?



I'm guessing that this lot (except for the log at the front) was cut down last weekend (21/22 Aug).

Yep! This wood pile always has super fresh logs. Straight from the tree to me! I hope it keeps producing!

I've gotta say, I love the way this forum helps us to identify new timbers we find. Kudos to you all!:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

GJ, here is a link to a tree identification site using leaf characteristics. It might give a definitive answer. LEAF Tree ID Key (http://www.uwsp.edu/cnr/leaf/Treekey/tkframe.htm)

Manuka Jock
24th August 2010, 12:51 PM
The cut end of the log is definitely a light orange colour. The wood inside is paler.
Thats' it , Red Alder .:)
Great for kitchen stuff and ornaments .
Although a Hardwood , it is light and soft . Dents easily , but they pop out with a bit if a soak .
Cores out nicely , turns well , can tear a bit . I'll try a sanding sealer on my next one .
Drinks oil like it's going out of fashion . A wax finish brings the grain out beautifully.

Its a good score indeed :2tsup:

artme
24th August 2010, 03:47 PM
:o I can just imagine that SO cut on the quarter!!!!:2tsup:

Manuka Jock
24th August 2010, 03:53 PM
:o I can just imagine that SO cut on the quarter!!!!:2tsup:
True .
it has beautiful figure anyway you cut it

PS
ah , which one ..... ?

Grumpy John
24th August 2010, 05:58 PM
It looks like the ring in has some leaves attached. Can you post a close up photo as well?


Yep! This wood pile always has super fresh logs. Straight from the tree to me! I hope it keeps producing!

I've gotta say, I love the way this forum helps us to identify new timbers we find. Kudos to you all!:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

GJ, here is a link to a tree identification site using leaf characteristics. It might give a definitive answer. LEAF Tree ID Key (http://www.uwsp.edu/cnr/leaf/Treekey/tkframe.htm)

Too late, the ring in has been cut up.

I agree 100%, it never ceases to amaze me the generosity shown by the Forumites here. Their willingness to share information is fantastic :2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:.

Grumpy John
24th August 2010, 06:15 PM
After reading some posts in the "Irritations" thread I was inspired to make a saw buck :whistling2:. Well I put it to good use today cutting up the Silky Oak and Red Alder. All cut up sealed and ready to rough out. I'll be giving the Bowl Saver a hiding tomorrow, which leads me to this question. When roughing out a bowl from green timber you're supposed to allow 10% of diameter on the wall thickness for movement. Is this 10% over and above the finished wall thickness i.e. if you have a 300mm dia. blank and the finished thickness of the bowl is going to be 10mm do you leave the wall 40 mm thick.

145555 145557 145558 145559

Chuck a piece of yellow tongue flooring on the top and you've got a handy work bench.
145560

The unknown timber freshly cut.
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rsser
24th August 2010, 06:23 PM
Nice buck John.

For a 30cm blank (OD) I make the wall 30mm.

Have found with SO that it's critical that the base be no more than this so I leave a recess in the hollow rather than a spigot. HTH

Grumpy John
24th August 2010, 08:01 PM
Nice buck John.

For a 30cm blank (OD) I make the wall 30mm.

Have found with SO that it's critical that the base be no more than this so I leave a recess in the hollow rather than a spigot. HTH

So the 10% includes the finished wall thickness?

RETIRED
24th August 2010, 08:10 PM
Yessum.

Grumpy John
24th August 2010, 08:13 PM
Just playing devil's advocate here :rolleyes:.
So if you want a finished wall thickness of 25mm on a 300mm bowl, that only gives you 2.5mm to play with?

RETIRED
24th August 2010, 08:35 PM
If you are going to turn heavy walled you turn it down to about twice the proposed wall thickness.

Wax it heavily all over. Turn about half the difference in about 9 months.

Wax it again.

Finish turn about 12 months after that.

So a 25mm finished wall is;

turned to 45-50mm. Wax.

9 months turn to about 35mm.

Wax again.

18-24 months after rough out. Finish turn.

Grumpy John
24th August 2010, 08:37 PM
Thanks for that . I wasn't trying to be a smart ask, just wondering how thick walled bowls were dealt with :2tsup:.

RETIRED
24th August 2010, 08:46 PM
You do risk cracking on the thicker ones but if you keep an eye on them most will turn out ok.

Manuka Jock
24th August 2010, 08:48 PM
After reading some posts in the "Irritations" thread I was inspired to make a saw buck :whistling2:.
:D :2tsup:

John , an important thing that I have found with the red alder is that it moves , and moves , and moves .
Next time I have a big lump of it , I'll try coring it out One bowl and working it to completion , totally finished in one session .
It could save me a lot of hand sanding on out of round bowls .

I'll also re-wax the remaining part of the blank , and / or freeze it and see how that goes .

Grumpy John
24th August 2010, 08:55 PM
Thank's for that bit of info Jock. I was only planning on removing one core anyway, as the wood wasn't big enough to get three bowls from when you allow 10% extra for movement. Should I allow 15% on the red alder if it moves so much?

Grumpy John
24th August 2010, 08:59 PM
You are a lucky man !:2tsup: I didn't want the wood burners to get it!

I roughed out a bowl of the "alleged Birch" this arvo. I got quite wet while turning it! It was easy to turn and looks similar to oak at the moment. There is a bit of tannin in it as some of the lathe bed turned black.
To add some confusion to the debate here is a picture of Birch leaves and of American Beech!

Steve, how thick did you leave the wall and is it in a placcy bag with shavings, or did you wax it? Pictures please, if able :)

Manuka Jock
24th August 2010, 09:04 PM
Thank's for that bit of info Jock. I was only planning on removing one core anyway, as the wood wasn't big enough to get three bowls from when you allow 10% extra for movement. Should I allow 15% on the red alder if it moves so much?

Yeah , might as well . It could just have been the tree I was working with , but better be safe than sorry.
The wood , when seasoned stays soft , it doesn't harden up like birch and sycamore do . so you should be able to leave a few half rounds un-cored , and see to them in a few years time .
Double wax them tho,

dai sensei
24th August 2010, 09:10 PM
Another alternative John is to finish turn a piece to 2mm thick and wet sand it, an inch at a time from the outside in, and using a light to get uniform thickness. Then let it dry for a month before lightly finish sanding it and oiling. If it doesn't stay round enough, you can hand sand it, or pierce/colour it.

Manuka Jock
24th August 2010, 09:42 PM
Another alternative John is to finish turn a piece to 2mm thick and wet sand it, an inch at a time from the outside in, and using a light to get uniform thickness. Then let it dry for a month before lightly finish sanding it and oiling. If it doesn't stay round enough, you can hand sand it, or pierce/colour it.
I'm wasn't game enough to turn this stuff to 2mm thick :U .
I stuck to 15mm for the big 'un to about 8mm for the third . Salad bowl weight . .
4 out of the one lump so far , might get 1 more out of the top one
The big one is 350 x 145

steck
25th August 2010, 12:53 AM
Steve, how thick did you leave the wall and is it in a placcy bag with shavings, or did you wax it? Pictures please, if able :)

Here is a picture of the 2 of the 3 bowls I got out of the bit of log. I made 1 deep bowl, a shallow bowl and a platter.
It's just over 30 cm diameter and the walls are 3 cm. I use a bowl guage to check that the thickness is roughly uniform.
At the end, I spun it at about 2500 rpm for a couple of minutes to try and get some of the excess moisture out, while blowing it with air from the compressor. ( New experimental technique).
It is now wrapped up in heavy paper, unwaxed.
I don't store my green bowls in the shavings anymore as I found I had more of a problem with mould. Maybe they will work better in warmer weather?
The second bowl I was able to soak in Metho for a few hours. The bigger bowl wouldn't fit in my Metho tub.
As an aside: my little finger turned orange from all the sap it copped while I was turning the wood.

Ed Reiss
25th August 2010, 12:44 PM
Com'n now John...don't make me come over there to get you stratened out...by now you should be an expert plus on all those woods and you've even got a super-duper shed to play in:q:D:D:D most of us cellar-dwellers got it rough yet somehow we manage...should be easy for you:2tsup:

Grumpy John
25th August 2010, 05:48 PM
Dunno John
, the shape of that serrated leaf tells me no .
Another pic of an undamaged leaf laid out flat , and some catkins (seed cones ) will be a help .


The colouration of the fresh cut log and the leaf sample that GJ has provided makes me think it could be Red Alder (Alnus rubra) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alnus_rubra)


John,

Looks like an alder to me, big give away with alder is when freshly cut it turns orangey colour plus it gets brown about the heart.

E-Flora BC Vascular Plant Atlas Page (http://linnet.geog.ubc.ca/Atlas/Atlas.aspx?sciname=Alnus%20rubra&redblue=Both&lifeform=2)

Now with it being way down there it could be some kind of a hybrid.

Here's a section on maples and birches.

E-Flora Trees of British Columbia (http://www.geog.ubc.ca/biodiversity/eflora/E-FloraTreesofBritishColumbia.html)

Are these trees native or do you think they were imported?

Trevor

You're all wrong, it's a money tree.
I found this in one of the blanks I was roughing out today.

145657 145658 145659

It's an Australian 2 cent piece. It's been yonks* since they've been in circulation.







*For the benefit of those up-over
yonks. Ages, a long time, as in I knew him for yonks.

Grumpy John
25th August 2010, 05:52 PM
Com'n now John...don't make me come over there to get you stratened out...by now you should be an expert plus on all those woods and you've even got a super-duper shed to play in:q:D:D:D most of us cellar-dwellers got it rough yet somehow we manage...should be easy for you:2tsup:

Don't really care what the wood's called Ed, just like to know that if I get a bad reaction from it I know what to stay away from, or at least take the necessary precautions.

Manuka Jock
25th August 2010, 06:03 PM
You're all wrong, it's a money tree.
I found this in one of the blanks I was roughing out today.

145657 145658 145659

It's an Australian 2 cent piece. It's been yonks* since they've been in circulation.



:zing:. :D

rsser
25th August 2010, 06:17 PM
Sounds like a lose-money tree mate!

I'll bring down the metal detector.

rotten_66
25th August 2010, 06:25 PM
I know it's been a few days now, but I would bet it is an Evergreen Alder. (Alnus acuminata also called Alnus jorullensis) They got planted everywhere around Melbourne back in the seventies/eighties before it dawned on people that being a Mexican rain forest tree that they have highly invasive roots and grow really really big.




Ron

quercus
26th August 2010, 09:03 AM
Definitely evergreen alder, as mentioned. Planted in their thousands in the eighties. Also known as the Toorak Gum Tree cause so many were planted in that area as a quick screening plant. Grows like the clappers but as mentioned have invasive roots and also requires a lot of water. Currently keeping the tree removal industry busy.