coping fret jewellers

[mic-d]

I have used an old Eclipse coping saw since high school but I'd like to know what brand fret and jewellers saw to add, and what are good coping saw blades?

Cheers
Michael

[dynoforce]

Have you read this thread by Derek, http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/new-concepts-fretsaw-reviewed-121699/? (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/new-concepts-fretsaw-reviewed-121699/)

I am thinking it must be one of the best fret/jewelers saw in the market today.

Gunn

[BobL]

I use a Carbatech jewelers saw for fine cutting of brass and ally.

I bought the blades for it from AJS; http://jewellerssupplies.com.au/images/stories/PDFs/Tools_Equipment_2010/134_135_Sawing_2010.pdf

I use the 0 or 1 grade blades (48 or 52 TPI).

Cheers

[Blue-deviled]

Have you read this thread by Derek, http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/new-concepts-fretsaw-reviewed-121699/? (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/new-concepts-fretsaw-reviewed-121699/)

I am thinking it must be one of the best fret/jewelers saw in the market today.

Gunn

It certainly isn't the cheapest!

cheers,
B-D.

[mic-d]

Have you read this thread by Derek, http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/new-concepts-fretsaw-reviewed-121699/? (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/new-concepts-fretsaw-reviewed-121699/)

I am thinking it must be one of the best fret/jewelers saw in the market today.

Gunn

Haven't read that, but the Knew concept stuff sure is out of my price range.


I use a Carbatech jewelers saw for fine cutting of brass and ally.

I bought the blades for it from AJS; http://jewellerssupplies.com.au/images/stories/PDFs/Tools_Equipment_2010/134_135_Sawing_2010.pdf

I use the 0 or 1 grade blades (48 or 52 TPI).

Cheers

Thanks Bob. I will have a look at that one.

Cheers
Michael

[dynoforce]

Haven't read that, but the Knew concept stuff sure is out of my price range.

It was too rich for me as well but a good read. Definitely appreciate Derek sharing it here.

Reminds me a lot of the evolution of materials used on bicycle frames, i.e. steel frames followed by aluminum then titanium. I am still riding my old steel (4130 chromoly) frame bicycle.:D

I have an Olson jewelers saw similar to the one from Carbatec for cutting dovetails. I think the tensioning screw at the toe of the saw makes a huge difference.

Cheers

Gunn

[jimbur]

Ah someone with more sense than money!
One person who really knows jewellers saws on this forum is Lightwood - he is a jeweller of renown.
Cheers,
Jim

[lightwood]

Ah someone with more sense than money!
One person who really knows jewellers saws on this forum is Lightwood - he is a jeweller of renown.
Cheers,
Jim
Jim,
your cheque is in the mail :2tsup:
For years I've used German made spring steel saw-frames in a couple of sizes.
No connection with this company other than as a customer for 35 years...
www.koodak.com.au/product.php?c2ID=245 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/www.koodak.com.au/product.php?c2ID=245)
These saws are avaialable through most of the jewellers supply houses in Australia.
Twin Plaza, AJS, Tool World MCE. are in Melbourne city.
The blades I use are Vallorbe round back Jewellers saw blades for metal.
I'm a very firm believer in mastering the older style tools, to be as good with them as the master's of old.
I read from time to time how it is impossible to do something by hand with a coping saw or fret saw and chuckle to myself...(and sometime out loud) because it is being written by someone who can't use one, and hasn't the skill or inclination to learn or ask how it can be done.
Here are a few pictures from a plane I restored years ago. I wanted to open the throat 0.5mm, so cut a sliver 0.1mm wide across the throat.
Instant gratification is probably available with some new product, but I would advice against the mind set that is "what can I do, or where can I buy a tool that requires less hand skill" it will take you off the righteous path:U

Take the time to learn to use one of these saws, and if you want to see what can be done with them, take a walk through any museum in the world looking for holes in metal and wood with fancy patterns cut out. None of them were done with a titanium saw.
Like all hand/arm/foot/leg skills learned there is a multiplier effect, it will enable the hand and brain to become more connected, and other tools that were a struggle to control with accuracy will magically be tamed.

Regards,
Peter

[derekcohen]

There are continuing developments with the Knew Concepts fretsaw. The frame depth can be reduced as there is a new blade holder coming out which can alter the angle of the blade. I have not yet seen it. However this will eventually cause the price to drop as the frame can become shallower. Still, at around $50 I do not see this as an expensive saw. Buying a cheap Eclipse from Bunnings is likely to cost you $30. The difference between these saws is night-and-day. Peter, would you like to borrow one of mine to try out, and post your thoughts here.

I recommended the 18 tpi Eclipse blades to Lee Marshall (at KC). He tested them out and concluded that they were excellent - perfect for sawing the waste between dovetails - and will now fit these as standard to the KC fretsaw. I get mine from Bunnings.

Declaimer: I have no vested interest in the KC saw other than providing input into the design, and wishing Lee all the best in the world as he is one of the Goood Guys.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[mic-d]

Jim,
your cheque is in the mail :2tsup:
For years I've used German made spring steel saw-frames in a couple of sizes.
No connection with this company other than as a customer for 35 years...
www.koodak.com.au/product.php?c2ID=245 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/www.koodak.com.au/product.php?c2ID=245)
These saws are avaialable through most of the jewellers supply houses in Australia.
Twin Plaza, AJS, Tool World MCE. are in Melbourne city.
The blades I use are Vallorbe round back Jewellers saw blades for metal.
I'm a very firm believer in mastering the older style tools, to be as good with them as the master's of old.
I read from time to time how it is impossible to do something by hand with a coping saw or fret saw and chuckle to myself...(and sometime out loud) because it is being written by someone who can't use one, and hasn't the skill or inclination to learn or ask how it can be done.
Here are a few pictures from a plane I restored years ago. I wanted to open the throat 0.5mm, so cut a sliver 0.1mm wide across the throat.
Instant gratification is probably available with some new product, but I would advice against the mind set that is "what can I do, or where can I buy a tool that requires less hand skill" it will take you off the righteous path:U

Take the time to learn to use one of these saws, and if you want to see what can be done with them, take a walk through any museum in the world looking for holes in metal and wood with fancy patterns cut out. None of them were done with a titanium saw.
Like all hand/arm/foot/leg skills learned there is a multiplier effect, it will enable the hand and brain to become more connected, and other tools that were a struggle to control with accuracy will magically be tamed.

Regards,
Peter

Thank you for your reply Peter, I will follow up that company's products. The plane mouth modification is unbelievable, a superhuman effort.:o:o:2tsup:

Cheers
Michael

[lightwood]

The difference between these saws is night-and-day. Peter, would you like to borrow one of mine to try out, and post your thoughts here.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Thanks Derek,
But I already have all the daylight I need. What I lack now are the eyes I had 20 years ago:U
Perhaps that red colour really is the answer:2tsup:
In my daily use of the saw, I do work not easily seen because it is under gemstones, but often the back holes are cut as well, and that is a measure of the quality of the work done, and the skill of the jeweller.
If the argument is that you need less skill with another tool, I believe we might part ways in philosophy right there. I want to refine my skill with every tool I use and not choose a tool because it might assist a novice with a quick result, or compensate for inadequate technique.
Regards,
Peter

[derekcohen]

Hi Peter

I have a bunch of dovetail saws. I have used many more. The range is wide in terms of both quality and price. I can cut pretty good dovetails with just about anything. Nevertheless I still prefer to use a decent saw than a poor saw. I can master the poor saw, but that does not mean I have to use it.

The increased tension of the KC fretsaw translates into less deflection of the blade, and this leads to better control.

I think that you are reacting to any mention of a "better" tool as if someone was suggesting that the tool is more important than the handskill behind it. My recommendation of a better tool is is just that - a better tool, not a replacement for handskills. As far as I am concerned woodworking is more fun when it is about handskills. Just that sometimes handskills improve faster with better handtools.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[lightwood]

Hi Peter

I consider you a master with a handtool such as a fretsaw. You are a professional - you make your living at this, and have done so for a long time - and I expect that there is little for you to learn in this regard. I have seen your work, and it is magnificent.

Now with all due respect, there is a difference between your skills and the average forum member, and this is relevant. For you to say that one should master whatever saw one has and not bother with anything better, or consider upgrading, well that strikes me as arrogant. Your hobby is building tools. You make gorgeous infill planes. You have made saws as well. Are you saying that these are just jewellery and for a cabinet, or that they have a purpose in the workshop? Or should we all just make do with a lesser quality handplane (or any other tool) until it is mastered, because that is the goal of tool use? I don't understand how you can do one thing and say another.

I have a bunch of dovetail saws. I have used many more. The range is wide in terms of both quality and price. I can cut pretty good dovetails with just about anything. Nevertheless I still prefer to use a decent saw than a poor saw. I can master the poor saw, but that does not mean I have to use it.

The Knew Concepts fretsaw may not offer anything to you, but it is a saw that is easier to use that others I own. The increased tension it manages translates into less deflection of the blade, and this leads to better control.

I think that you are reacting to any mention of a "better" tool as if someone was suggesting that the tool is more important than the handskill behind it. My recommendation of a better tool is is just that - a better tool, not a replacement for handskills. As far as I am concerned woodworking is more fun when it is about handskills. Just that sometimes handskills improve faster with better handtools.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Derek,
Although I have lots of issues with what you have written, I'm not inclined, or a combative enough mood to reply to this.
I think I'll just pass.
Regards,
Peter

[derekcohen]

Hi Peter

Reading what I wrote it came out stronger than I meant it to. I was not intending to be combative. I apologise if it sounded that way.

All I want to emphasise is that good handtools are just that - good handtools. Nothing can replace good handskills. Still, good handtools deserve their due recognition.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[jimbur]

That's a relief. I was surprised at the tenor of your initial reply Derek.
I suggested Peter was the person to ask because he was the most experienced person I know who uses jewellers' saws on a regular basis and as such would be expected to know quality and performance.
Looking at the two websites and allowing for postage and exchange rates, the German made saw used by jewellers around the world comes out at not much more than half the Knew Concepts one. About the same price as Derek suggested for a Bunning's Eclipse. That struck me as exceptional value for money which was a point raised early in the thread.
Many of us are on limited budgets and have to get the best we can afford which is why advice on these forums is so useful. It's no use having the most expensive set of tools available if all you can then afford is recycled radiata.
Cheers,
Jim

[derekcohen]

Hi Jim (and Peter)

I have edited my original post to reflect what I should have included. As I wrote to Peter, I overstated the issue. It was a long day ... :doh:

Regards from Perth

Derek

[lightwood]

Thank you for your reply Peter, I will follow up that company's products. The plane mouth modification is unbelievable, a superhuman effort.:o:o:2tsup:

Cheers
Michael
Michael,
Thanks for those kind words.
When you get your saw, here are some tips on it's use.
Firstly, I suppose there are 2 basic ways to use the saw with the work on the horizontal, or vertically in the vice.(although I watched eastern students use the saw upside down holding the frame standing over the work.) I often move the larger work on all kinds of angles, but let's start with the basics.
I will deal with the horizontal work in this note, and perhaps have a think and make another post about the vertical work.

For fret work, or cutting thin stuff with the very thin blades I use it seated, with the work horizontal on the bench and support the work on a steel plate that folds away. I've seen other types, but am not a fan of the wooden "V" pegs.
The position of the support, and the height of the bench are critical. My bench is 1 meter high, and you can see that the half circle cut out in the bench allows me to sort of climb in to the bench and over the top of the work, and support my left arm holding the work.
Jeweller's bench (http://www.petermcbride.com/jewellery_tools/bench/)
In use, my right knee is about 4 to 6 inches forward of the saw and directly under the work. My right arm is in line with the right leg as I sit at the bench and address the work, my body is in a neutral, relaxed position, not wanting to be held to the left or right of the saw.
The blade tension in the saw-frame is just so that it goes "ting" when plucked.
To load the blade, place the handle in the chest, and the far side of the saw against the bench leaving both hands free, then fix the blade ( teeth down ) in the handle end, then push slightly forward and tighten the blade in the other end. (girls and women I've taught use the shoulder for this) If it doesn't go "ting" when plucked, do that tension again. ( I don't want to hear about any fancy adjustment apparatus on a saw, they are a waste of time, and space) No professional user of the fret saw or jewellers saw EVER uses the adjustable feature on the top of, or at the end of a saw-frame. Set it once and leave it where it is, you set the tension of the blade when you fit the blade to the saw.
In use, if you imagine the saw handle and the blade connected at that end are doing the work and the guiding, and the other end of the frame is just to hold the blade above the work as it's pulled through, you will know that every change of direction will need cutting motion forward with the blade. Keep the shoulder behind the blade and work the arm up and down trying to keep the blade in a vertical orientation in the forward /back and sideways axes, by combined movement of the wrist, elbow and shoulder, sighting with the preferred "guiding eye"
This requires a lightness of touch and careful reading of the feedback from the saw. Often I will almost let the saw go, or if the work is small let that go, and let it re-align itself to find where the cut is and where the saw is aligned in the cut.
It certainly isn't easy the first time around, but as I've said any number of times, as you work on these skills your ability to refine the way your brain and body control the tool using micro adjustments in response to feedback from the tools will be instantly applicable to all kinds of tools, not just this one.
Hope this is some help,
Regards,
Peter
I just read Derek's post, and accept it in the spirit it was written.
I would add though, I beleive that if you are depending on the saw frame rigidity, and the blade to keep it alligned you have missed the basic function of the saw, and are doing what I think is problematic....that is, attempting to use the tool to compensate for inadequate technique.

[mic-d]

Peter thanks for your comprehensive instructions, once I get a saw and practice, I'll probably need to get back to you to decipher some of it!:)

Cheers
Michael

[Basilg]

Peter

Many thanks for the very useful & lucid post. It is often very enticing to buy the latest widget or buy that top of the line tool without fully exploring the mastering of a simple tool.

Derek is also correct that an improved tool can sometimes make the task at hand a simpler or easier one. The real difficulty lies in determining when to apply which approach.

But then it is also satisfying to ignore both, simply to own the latest, rarest, most aesthetic, ugliest, cheapest, most expensive bit of gear.

Life would be a lot duller without any of this :D

Now all I have to do is convince myself that I really need a bench like yours :rolleyes:

Regards

[IanW]

Well, I'm pleased to see you two make it up a bit, Derek & Peter - you have both earned a lot of respect on this forum, & we children don't like to see the grandparents having a spat, particularly when I think you were talking at slightly cross purposes!

You both made perfectly valid points.

My interpretation of what Peter is saying, is that buying a Stradivarius won't make you an instant Oistrakh or Menuhin, and it takes years of mastering lesser instruments before you will get the full potential out of even a "good" instrument, let alone the "best". Practice & skill are an integral part of craft, & what brings a lot of the ultimate satisfaction we derive from it.

However, what Derek is saying is that some of us have demanding day jobs, to say nothing of family committments, and craft is a hobby, albeit a fairly consuming one for many! :; So some of us will never truly master our tools, (though we ought to try our best to do so!), simply because we cannot devote the time to it and/or we aren't blessed with the native ability that gives the lucky few a head start. For such people, having tools that are acknowledged to be up to the task removes one uncertainty from the equation. (I can't help harbouring a lingering suspicion, though, that it is not this aspect, but conspicuous consumption that drives too many, including myself, at times).

Debates over what makes tools good or 'best' are going to continue as long as this forum exists, & as long as you have a reason for preferring x over y, that's all good grist to the mill.... :U I long ago learnt that I am the biggest limitation to any tool I've had, with few exceptions, and it's taken a long time to learn which were the exceptions! You certainly don't need a Holtey to make a very good fist of planing a board - I'll back my old Stanley #5 against any expensive plane you like to name, if it's weilded by someone in the early stages of learning hand planing skills.

Yet in my travels I've seen exquisite work done with cobbled-up tools that I couldn't have made a bread board with, so to me there is a definite middle ground where the tool does matter. Given we come from a very wide range of natural abilities and time spent practising, that middle ground is likely to be bigger than your average house paddock...... :;

Cheers

[jimbur]

It's worth keeping Peter's instructions in mind the next time you're using hand tools. Normally you just do the job in hand without thinking of the finer points but the slight adjustments in stance etc just to do the simplest job to get the best out of the tool are amazing. The feedback the body gives is beyond price.
Most of us are capable of intricate physical movements that go far beyond chewing gum and walking at the same time. Driving a car is a good example. The older ones among us will remember hill starts while hand signalling and holding the car on the clutch. And we did all that with a policeman sitting in the back seat!
A good thread apart from me rambling on.
Cheers,
Jim

[RayG]

Interesting discussion, probably too deep for me to be able to add much to.

I can only offer the following observation, any saw (of whatever type) depends as much as anything else on having a good blade, well formed sharp teeth.

The eclipse coping saw blades you get from Bunnings look like they have punched and I sharpen them before use. Sounds a bit daunting, but it only takes a minute with a swiss needle file to touch up the teeth and after that I find they cut nicely.

Jewellers saws are not my area of expertise, I have a Zona and a Knew Concepts, both work fine, the Knew Concepts was $49 and the Zona about $25 and I would follow Peter's recommendation of Vallorbe round back blades. Whatever frame you choose. With my ham fisted technique, I can break blades with either..:)

The instructions on technique that Peter has posted are excellent, I promise to try and get better... thanks Peter.

Regards
Ray

[Woodwould]

Well, I'm pleased to see you two make it up a bit, Derek & Peter - you have both earned a lot of respect on this forum, & we children don't like to see the grandparents having a spat, particularly when I think you were talking at slightly cross purposes!

You both made perfectly valid points.

My interpretation of what Peter is saying, is that buying a Stradivarius won't make you an instant Oistrakh or Menuhin, and it takes years of mastering lesser instruments before you will get the full potential out of even a "good" instrument, let alone the "best". Practice & skill are an integral part of craft, & what brings a lot of the ultimate satisfaction we derive from it.

However, what Derek is saying is that some of us have demanding day jobs, to say nothing of family committments, and craft is a hobby, albeit a fairly consuming one for many! :; So some of us will never truly master our tools, (though we ought to try our best to do so!), simply because we cannot devote the time to it and/or we aren't blessed with the native ability that gives the lucky few a head start. For such people, having tools that are acknowledged to be up to the task removes one uncertainty from the equation. (I can't help harbouring a lingering suspicion, though, that it is not this aspect, but conspicuous consumption that drives too many, including myself, at times).

Debates over what makes tools good or 'best' are going to continue as long as this forum exists, & as long as you have a reason for preferring x over y, that's all good grist to the mill.... :U I long ago learnt that I am the biggest limitation to any tool I've had, with few exceptions, and it's taken a long time to learn which were the exceptions! You certainly don't need a Holtey to make a very good fist of planing a board - I'll back my old Stanley #5 against any expensive plane you like to name, if it's weilded by someone in the early stages of learning hand planing skills.

Yet in my travels I've seen exquisite work done with cobbled-up tools that I couldn't have made a bread board with, so to me there is a definite middle ground where the tool does matter. Given we come from a very wide range of natural abilities and time spent practising, that middle ground is likely to be bigger than your average house paddock...... :;

Cheers

Ian – the oil on the water as I've come to expect.

I'll add my comment for what it's worth ( probably not as much as the normally preferred 2 cents). Most people would struggle with junk tools, but anyone currently or ultimately capable of woodwork can do so with average tools. The bling tools will not make a damned bit of improvement to an amateur's work and, in fact, large collections of bling will more often or not highlight the amateur or average woodworker in their misguided optimism. Very few professional woodworkers own much bling tooling.

What will make the most noticable difference to anyone's work (short of experience) is the condition and sharpness of their tools. Like you Ian, I have old (eBay purchases in my case) planes etc. and, judging by what I've seen of the capabilities of most bling owners, I could out-perform them at the bench with my old rusties.

You can't legislate against stupidity or taste, so right or wrong, some people will opt for the bling at every opportunity.

[lightwood]

Interesting discussion, probably too deep for me to be able to add much to.

I can only offer the following observation, any saw (of whatever type) depends as much as anything else on having a good blade, well formed sharp teeth.

The eclipse coping saw blades you get from Bunnings look like they have punched and I sharpen them before use. Sounds a bit daunting, but it only takes a minute with a swiss needle file to touch up the teeth and after that I find they cut nicely.

Jewellers saws are not my area of expertise, I have a Zona and a Knew Concepts, both work fine, the Knew Concepts was $49 and the Zona about $25 and I would follow Peter's recommendation of Vallorbe round back blades. Whatever frame you choose. With my ham fisted technique, I can break blades with either..:)

The instructions on technique that Peter has posted are excellent, I promise to try and get better... thanks Peter.

Regards
Ray
Ray,
Remember a group of us had the opportunity to watch you make a D/T saw plate from start to finish...cutting that is.
From all the years I've watched and trained jewellers, trying to pick up and correct the smallest subtleties in their technique, I just can't stop myself seeing and thinking that way.
I watch uses of hand-tools with interest... to call yourself "ham-fisted" is pretty much complete nonsense:no:
Remember the variety of success the group of us had with that same saw on the same piece of wood on the first stroke?
Regards,
Peter

[lightwood]

My interpretation of what Peter is saying, is that buying a Stradivarius won't make you an instant Oistrakh or Menuhin, and it takes years of mastering lesser instruments before you will get the full potential out of even a "good" instrument, let alone the "best". Practice & skill are an integral part of craft, & what brings a lot of the ultimate satisfaction we derive from it.
No Ian,
I'm not at all suggesting that a quality tool isn't a worthwhile purchase, or anything like that.
The basic objection I have to some of the new generation tool makers and promoters can be condensed into my thoughts on tool seller's spiels like this one...

"If you've ever had trouble starting a saw, this may be the one for you. Be sure to take a look at the pop-up images below."

....And then click on the checkout button to solve your saw starting problems...

My belief is that the problem isn't the traditional form of the tool.
Generations of simple minded tool users have mastered the task of starting a saw, you don't need to spend money on getting that skill, you learn it.
Once learned, you are at the start of learning to read the feedback a tool handle gives, and are able to make small alteration in technique to make it work well.
This is such a basic philosophy of hand tool use, I'm flabbergasted it could be so controversial.
Regards,
Peter

[IanW]

Peter - I think we are actually in pretty close agreement, anyway. That skill & practice are what makes a tool work, not the tool itself, is pretty self-evident, IMO. And I didn't mean to imply that a good quality tool isn't a desirable thing, either - I would be an utter hypocrite if I did! :o

And yes, I think that starting a saw with >9 or 10 tpi should be a pretty straightforward procedure for most, after just a modicum of practice. I mucked around with a couple of the saws I made, and tried both 'relaxed rake' and smaller teeth on the toe. It did make them fractionally easier to start, I suppose, but since I just as often start a small saw in the middle, decided it had little material advantage for me. It was fun to try, and could help a beginner, until they gained confidence, I suppose, but might be a bit of a nuisance if you don't do your own sharpening.

Cheers,

[lightwood]

..............
Now all I have to do is convince myself that I really need a bench like yours :rolleyes:
Regards
Basilg,
when I was first married, living in a rented one bedroom flat in Hawthorn, after graduating from a small stump on the floor between my legs, I made a box that sat on the kitchen table with a clamp to the table top in each of the front corners. The box had the same shape top as my current bench with the half circle cut out. A back and 2 sides about 10 inches high on a base that acted like a tray to hold tools and waste. It was nothing special, but I made my first diamond ring on it, and used it at home for 2 more years.
That type of bench has been used by jewellers for hundreds of years, and is perfectly adapted to making small work by hand.
A similar addition to a workshop bench would be a revelation to most woodworkers wanting to do some small work.
If it's not clear, I could do a sketch.
Getting the work to the right height for correct posture is critical to any tool's successful use.
Regards,
Peter

[Basilg]

Peter

Yes I had various make do's for a number of years , and my first real bench was a very old & run down carpenters bench I bought at a Government auction back in the seventies. Then in the eighties I made a european cabinetmakers bench which is still going strong, & gets a periodic flattening treatment & coat of polish.

I am in the midst of extending my workshop which will become a machine shop and all the hand tools & bench will move into the new section. One thing on my list is another bench ( or several ) which is what attracted me to your bench, as my current bench excels for planing, but being on the low side is not good for other things. So I am mulling over ideas for benches for joining, carving, sharpening etc and could not agree more with your comments on the effect of posture on a tool.
I found the comments on hand skills & tool selection from yourself and others very interesting. One issue I have noted is that people are generally impoverished on time, & because of this feel the job must be done asap and drive their tools accordingly, often with nasty consequences.

I find if I work a bit slower using all the senses the work gets completed more successfully and a bit quicker. It is amazing how sensitive our bodies are. When you take a little time getting accustomed to working on a level surface, the body will start to tell you your plane is not level, or chisel is not vertical.
Listening to the noise made by a blade on a grinder or whetstone can tell you when the edge is ready. Using a truly sharp tool means you need lighter pressure which in turn provides greater feedback from the tool.

I seem to recall reading in Toshio Odates book him writing that japanese tradesmen would sometimes take a tool from an apprentice if it was considered he had purchased one he did not have the sensitivity to use properly. Now that my senses are starting to falter, perhaps I can expect a visit from the Tool Police soon.:D

If you have time to spare, a sketch of you bench would be appreciated.

Regards

[Orsomagno]

That type of bench has been used by jewellers for hundreds of years, and is perfectly adapted to making small work by hand.
A similar addition to a workshop bench would be a revelation to most woodworkers wanting to do some small work.
If it's not clear, I could do a sketch.


Yes thanks, a sketch will be very useful for me...

[lightwood]

Yes thanks, a sketch will be very useful for me...
Orsomagno,
here is a sketch.
The top size isn't critical, so if it's wider there will be room for draws down the sides.
The tray under the bench top on mine slides in runners, and has a back and sloping sides.
Jeweller's bench (http://www.petermcbride.com/jewellery_tools/bench/)
At least 800mm between the legs.
As can be seen, if the legs are cut of under the tray, it sits on a standard height table. (750mm)
The distance from the top down to the tray is 250mm, that provides enough room to use the jewellers saw.
Any questions, just ask...
Regards,
Peter

[Orsomagno]

Orsomagno,
here is a sketch.


thank you very much. I just have to translate your treatize on fret work above and the description of the bench.
just bought a ?? some kind of fret saw today, but I don't think it is suitable for finer works (see picture).
It is also missing a thumb screw, if someone could give me an advice on where to find a replacement, I'll thank him.

BTW, how is possible to tension the blade of such a tool??