Is the Sieg C4 worth it?

[mjsaand]

Hi all,

I am looking at buying a lathe (my first, looking for one that will grow with me as I learn) and would prefer to spend somewhere around the $1500 mark, but can stretch to ~$2000 if I had to.

If you had to choose between the:

Hafco AL-54B (H&F) $1,529 - 280 x 750mm

Sieg C6 (H&F) $1,375 - 250 x 500mm

Hafco AL-320G (H&F) $2,189 - 320 x 600mm, powered longitudinal and cross feed

Sieg C4 (Carbatec) $1,795 - 210 x 450mm, powered longitudinal and cross feed, brushless motor

Any advice on which one would be the best (or suggestion on another if I've missed one)? Is the C4 worth the extra cost for such a small lathe? In all the hafco's seem much better value - faceplate, 4 jaw chuck, fixed and travelling steadies included, is their fit and finish the same as the Siegs?

Thanks heaps for taking the time to read this.

[Dave J]

Hi,
Central coast you are close to Titan machinery to have a look. I would recommend something with power feeds like the AL320 if you can. It makes thing much easier and better finishes.
I am just up at Holmesville (3 min off the West Walsend/Cardiff turn off on the free way) If your up this way you are welcome to have a look at my 12x36 with power feeds to see what you think and have a chat, just PM me.

Dave

[Seafarer]

Dave,

I own a Hafco AL-54B. Quality is good, accuracy OK and it is a handy size and does everything I would expect from it.

However, if I was buying again I would go for something a bit more robust, i.e. AL-320 or AL-335. Reason for this is that the AL-54B is a bit light duty, and this is probably true of all similar machines of other brands including Sieg.

These are hobby lathes really, so you can't expect too much from them for serious work. Just take light cuts and they work OK, but get very chattery very easily if you take heavier (read normal) cuts.

Depends what you want to do though. For plastics or aluminium the AL-54 or the C6 would be OK. If you want to do serious work, or anything other than tiny cuts in steels then go for something more robust. I have never used one but have seen an AL-335 and it is much heavier and more robust, but you pay for this too.

Cheers, Cameron.

[mjsaand]

Thanks so much for the advice Dave and Cameron.

I've had a look at Titan machinery (thanks Dave - hadn't seen that one before) and taking into account what Cameron said am looking at the TL330 model (Titan Machinery - TL330...$2465.00 (http://titanmachinery.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=205&Itemid=422)). Would this fit the bill of being able to take 'normal' cuts?

Also would you see the extras on the TL330A (Titan Machinery - TL330A...$3390.00 (http://titanmachinery.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=211&Itemid=428)) as worth it (for the extra $900ish) in your opinion if I could trouble you for a little more advice? How mandatory is coolant for example?

Thanks so much for your time. I'm at that point where I want to spend the money right the first time, without the experience or knowledge to back it up, so appreciate you guys taking the time to answer.

Cheers,

Matt

[Seafarer]

Matt,

The Titan machines look OK.

There are several brands of similar 330 type machines, maybe even all based on same generic design because they sure look the same! There may be quality differences though depending on where they are sourced from, but I have heard good things about Titan.

Wouldn't be surpirsed if there is a reader in this group somewhere that has got one actually. There was a "show us you lathe" thread a couple of months ago - see if you can find it and have a look or do a search and see what else turns up.

Would be better to hear from the hourse's mouth how they perform if someone has got a 330 type machine, but they certainly look OK to me.

What are you planning to do with it though? This might influence the choice. Like I said before, my AL-54B has its limitations but there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, it is just a lighter type of machine. If you work within it's limitations it does a fine job, and this style of machine is a bit cheaper.

Cheers, Cameron.

[Stustoys]

mjsaand Do you have any idea what you want to make? That may help you work out what you need. I decided I wanted a spindle bore of at least 25mm and went from there. Also the longer bed is handy even if you are working on small things as you can get the carriage right out of the way. Of course there is always the problem of "for $50 more you have have X".
Cooling isn't mandatory, but it can come in handy
H&Fs AL-320G only has one "v" way the the TL330A has two, how big an issue this is I don't know sorry. They are both left hand carriage wheel, I prefer right. The TL330A doesn't say it comes with a stand(although I assume it does as it comes with a brake).

For TL330A sort of money you could get something like this.
$2990+gst. Not sure if they deal with interstate much. No coolant but a gap bed and two power feed shafts.

http://www.appliedmachinery.com.au/machinery/93526/machtech-lathe-turner-310-x-1000
Confusing isn't it?
Good luck
Stuart

[Big Shed]

Or this one just down the road

SM-1236A.Bench Lathe. 925mm Centres, 300mm Swing, 38mm Bore, 3 & 4 Jaw Chucks, Stand Included. - Asset Plant & Machinery (http://www.assetplant.com/epages/shop.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/shop/Products/12-0104)

I have their 9x20 with EVS, very happy with the machine and the company

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/new-lathe-78788/

[Stustoys]

Damn they werent even close when I was looking(about 18 months ago). The list price when I was looking was
$4944.50 including GST with DRO, no stand
$3954.50 including GST without DRO, no stand
Comes with QCTP, covers leadscrew and two handy little carraige stops.

Its a little smaller between centers than the Applied machine and you might find Applied more willing to move on price, again this info is 18 months old

Stuart

[mjsaand]

Hi all,

This is very helpful (if a little difficult to make a decision between so many similar machines, lol).

In terms of what I want to be doing, it's a mixed bag. I would like to machine some metal parts for a few projects I have to work on, that will involve operations like thread-cutting along 300-500mm steel bars, and gear cutting - there will be plenty more projects where they came from. I would like to use the lathe for milling operations (wont be able to afford a mill for a few years). I am also looking to use the machine as a wood lathe, so length is important to me (no room for more than 1 lathe in the shop). I would also like to try my hand at some model engineering - so like I said, a real mixed bag and trying to get a lathe that I wont regret 6-12 months down the track.

Stuart, forgive my ignorance but what would be the advantage of a 'gap bed and two power feed shafts' over the TL330A?

If you had to chose between the TL330A, the applied machinery and the Asset linked in the posts, which would you choose? Is there any obvious advantage to anyone of them? They all seem much the same to me (barring bed length), and shipping will be prohibitive I feel given titan is about 25 minuets drive from where I live.

[Dave J]

Don't forget the Gasweld lathe like mine if you are going that size. I have had no problems at all and they have been selling the same one for years. It is only 45 min the other way, and I could barter one down a bit if you decide to buy one as I know some of the guys their.
The gap bed allows you to turn big stuff that wont fit normally because it hit's the ways. You take out the piece under the chuck to allow for this. One example is a car fly wheel.
Dave

Clickable pictures

[Stustoys]

mjsaand The swing over gap is 430mm on the applied and asset machines, but the length is limited(see picture).
One shaft is for power feed, You'll likely be using this a lot.
The other "shaft" is the lead screw for thread cutting. You'll like us this a lot less but its important it isn't damaged or your threads reflect that damage. Having only one isn't a deal breaker. I think two is better, but only because I don't like the idea of a keyway running through the halfnut.

On the prices as they are listed I would go straight for the asset machine
Starting out I think you will find the QCTP(quick change tool post) more useful than coolant. The TL330a lists 12 speeds but you need to change the belt(I think) to get half of them. The Asset machine has 9 on the head.(in fact the picture of the asset machine shows it as an 18 speed, so you'd need to ask them)

The TL330A has a footbreak(I hope not, brake) and says its a must have for threading to shoulders. I wouldn't thread to a shoulder relying on a foot brake to stop. I've fitted a foot off switch, its cheap and easy.
For threading and power feed the Asset machine has a quick change gearbox. The TL330A as change gears, not so bad for threading but a pain if you want to change from a roughing cut to a finishing cut.

Asset are asking $300 for freight, so that's $3404.50. So you could think about it as $14.50 for delivery.(would be nice to have somewhere closer if you can. You can use this price to get a better deal there maybe?)

Hope I have covered most things. but maybe I missed something.

Stuart

[Gavin Newman]

H&Fs AL-320G only has one "v" way the the TL330A has two, how big an issue this is I don't know sorry.

When a lathe has 2 Vees on the ways it's usual for the saddle to ride on the front Vee and a flat way at the rear and the tail-stock to ride on the rear Vee and the flat on the front ways. The saddle generally does not ride on both Vees, at least not on any of the lathes I've seen or owned (no doubt there are exceptions).

In the case of the 320G, the saddle rides on a Vee at the front and on a flat ways at the back. The tail-stock rides on flat ways, both front and rear. The side-effect of this is that the location of the tail-stock is dependent on it's fit between the two ways and it can move about a little bit. When I had a 320G it wasn't a major issue as mine fitted well once it was clamped down.

Hope that helps.

[mjsaand]

Thanks so much to each of you for taking the time to help me out. I'm going to go have a look at the Gasweld (there is one about 5 mins away) and will then decide between that and the Asset. I feel like I'm making a much more informed decision (I now understand Vee ways, gap beds and other dark magic =), and getting a much better lathe. Thanks again!