Performax sanders

[sandman]

Looking at purchasing a "thicknesser" style sanding machine with conveyor belt set up. I require it mainly for sanding of timbers for boxes.
I have read some very good reveiws in AWR & AWW. They both have good things to say about these type of machines.
I would like to hear from anyone who has used/owns such a sanding machine with some feedback.
Regards Sandman. :)

[Bob Willson]

Hi Sandman
I have one of these from Carbatec. I wish I had waited a week and bought the one from the Woodman group. Better finish and bigger motor. Also easier to set up.
All these cheapish sanders work on the same principal, an open end to allow you to slide the work in from the side and the thickness adjustment is made via a big screw on the end.
I had and still have trouble with mine tending to gouge a line into the work piece when I am sanding from both sides. I have set the thing up at least 10 times and it is accurate but for some reason it loses this accuracy when it is actually working. It is fine so long as the items being sanded are less than 400 mm.
The larger motor of the Woodman group one would also reduce the nukber of times that the overload c uts the motor. This is overload is very easy to activate due to the varying amounts of power required to operate the sander under different circumstances. IE feed rate, timber hardness, depth of cut, grit etc.
I really like the machine and find it very useful both thicknessing to the last little bit and also for finish sanding flat items. I still hand finish the last little bit though.
Belts are quite expensive and I will shortly buy a roll of abrasive and cut my own. This should halve the cost of the belts.

[zymurgy]

Bob,

Do you details of the Woodman group one - is it a JET brand?

Website?

Cheers

[sandman]

Good feedback Bob!
I'm seriously looking at the 22/44 Pro model (Performax - Woodman group)
priced around $2250 at the moment (Melb show special).
A friend has the MS-25 Carbatec model, but it isn't an open end unit & is therefore limited to sanding to approx 630mm.
Keep the feedback coming.
Regards Sandman
:)

[Bob Willson]

The better ones are made for Jet. I was talking about the Carbatec 16 - 32 and so some of my comments may not apply to the larger of the drum sanders. I just had a look in the Jet catalogue and they say that the motor for the 22-44 is 1 1/2 hp. If this is still so then I would think that the machine is underpowered for the extra width. The 16 - 22 with the 1 1/2 hp motor would be just about right.

Just had another look and they are now offering the 22 - 44 with a 1 3/4 hp motor as well (Two new models)

Gregory Machinery Brisbane (http://www.gregmach.com)

I tried for the address of the Woodman Group but they seem to have been changed into something else.

Gregory Machinery will be at the show in Melbourne

[bitingmidge]

Gregory Machinery will be at the show in Melbourne

Hey Bob, daylight saving doesn't start till next week. (Or are we talking about a different show?)
P :D

[echnidna]

I have a WDS400 from Timbecon and am happy enough with it considering the cost of it.
All of these cheap drum sanders, Performax , Carbatec and Timbecon are made for serious ametruers and pro woodwoekers but in true reality none of them compare in performance to a twin wide belt sander , but the last WBS I used cost over $40K 12 years ago.

But I am happy with my little drum sander. I agree totally with all of Bob W's comments. I wouldn't be likely to mess around sanding wide panels with it as they are fast and easy with a normal hand held belt sander.

I didn't like the individual belt prices so I bought a 50M roll of 6" sanding cloth for $60 at the Melbourne WWW and now make 2 belts at a time. I should get almost 50 or so belts out of the roll. Unless I start cutting 6" discs from it.

[Justin]

G'day Sandman,

At the Melb wood show on the 15th I became the very happy owner of a Performax 22-44 Plus. After doing my research, I didn't see the need to pay heaps extra for the 22-44 Pro, when the only difference I could see was the the truss arm and height adjustment mechanism on the Pro. Motor horsepower, drum size and material capacities were, I believe, identical.

Have a look at the WMH website, you can even download the manuals for these and other units in PDF. Here's a link, hopefully it'll work properly :

http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/index.cfm?area=shop&action=vendors&vid=6&CID=245

During my research I discretely tried the brute force flex test on both models, and was satisfied that there wasn't any noticeable difference between both models (not a very scientific test though I must admit).

I also bought the open frame stand for the plus, rather than the closed stand, because :

1) The closed stand was going to add 2-300 bucks extra to the price
2) More importantly, none of the wheels on the bottom of the closed stand were swivel type - so you couldn't turn it. This seemed like a really stupid design limitation. I bought some swivel type, total brake rubber wheeled castors for the frame and am very happy with it's stability and mobility.

Setup was interesting - the unit comes in three boxes being the head/bed, the conveyor assembly and the frame. Getting the head/bed onto the assembled frame by myself was fun given that it has around 90 kilos worth of cast iron and motor.

Out of the box alignment was quite disappointing. The outboard end of the drum was a whopping 3mm higher over the conveyor than the inboard end was. Given my lack of familiarity with the machine I had to muck around a bit before I was happy that the drum was mostly parallel with the conveyor, with a slight bit of extra height at the outboard end for double width sanding.

The Plus came with a belt already wrapped on the drum, which required rewrapping to correct tension and gapping between edges. It didn't have the grit size written on the back, but feels to be somewhere around 100 grade.

I also bought some extra grits. A good tip from Carbatec was that the 3 inch material that this unit uses isn't widely available, and is thus rarely on special. A good option is to buy the more commonly available 4 inch at a good price, and tear it down to 3 inch width. Tearing it down is very easy ; the cloth backed paper rips very neatly along it's length, parallel to the edge. The Plus uses just over 3 metres for one wrap, so 10 metres will get you 3 wraps.

On actual usage, I haven't put as much through as I'd like to, because my two and a bit week old son is keeping me pretty occupied at the moment. I haven't yet used the double width method, but on stock up to around 500 wide I'm ecstatic with the results so far. I am so looking forward to kissing goodbye the days of random orbital sanding that comes with some of my projects, even when still allowing for final finish sand with the ROS. I'm also thinking seriously about getting into veneering, given that I can use my bandsaw and the drum sander to get veneer thickness material from some of the nice wide boards that I've been reluctant to cut up thus far.

Good luck with your purchase. If you've got any questions feel free to use this thread, or P.M me.

Cheers,


Justin.

[forge]

I didn't like the individual belt prices so I bought a 50M roll of 6" sanding cloth for $60 at the Melbourne WWW and now make 2 belts at a time. I should get almost 50 or so belts out of the roll. Unless I start cutting 6" discs from it.
Hi ,Bob -any chance of a new thread -how to make your own sanding belts?
Please.I have a few sanders myself already . Would like to build a sander to sand table tops and doors(seen in a back issue of- fine woodworking)if I new how to make my own sanding belts .
Regards ,Bela

[Bob Willson]

Hey Bob, daylight saving doesn't start till next week. (Or are we talking about a different show?) P :D

Just had another look at the show information on the Gregory Machinery web site.

Brisbane 23-25 May 2003
Sydney 20-22 June 2003
Adelaide 25-27 July 2003
Camberra 5-7 September 2003
Melbourne 3-5 October 2003

I was only one out. :D

[Bob Willson]

A good option is to buy the more commonly available 4 inch at a good price, and tear it down to 3 inch width. Tearing it down is very easy ; the cloth backed paper rips very neatly along it's length, parallel to the edge. The Plus uses just over 3 metres for one wrap, so 10 metres will get you 3 wraps.

Good idea Justin. An even better idea would be to buy 300 mm wide and tear it down into 4 widths of 75 mm eachs. I was at my local abrasives supplier today and he he had all sorts of different options. 10 metres of 300 mm wide will give you 12 wraps, or just over 3 metres will get you four.

[sandman]

Glad your'e happy with new machine Justin.
Thanks for the info & link. I will check it out.
One of the features I like about the 22/44 Pro model is that the head is stationary whilst it is the table which raises/lowers to achieve depth of sanding therefore should be better in long run to eliminate any "play" in head. It also has a "webbed truss" brace across top of unit for additional strength to eliminate any "sag" at outer end.
Or at least that's what I'm thinking!
Regards Sandman.

[Justin]

Sandman - You're welcome.

Bob - thanks heaps for the tip, I wasn't aware that there were so many width options available for the abrasive cloth. I'll definately do some ringing around to figure out my options.


Cheers,


Justin.

[Bob Willson]

One of the features I like about the 22/44 Pro model is that the head is stationary whilst it is the table which raises/lowers to achieve depth of sanding therefore should be better in long run to eliminate any "play" in head. It also has a "webbed truss" brace across top of unit for additional strength to eliminate any "sag" at outer end.
Or at least that's what I'm thinking!
Regards Sandman.

Sandman
It doesn't matter whether it is the table or the head that moves, if either one moves that is where there WILL BE play in the system. The trick is to minimise the possibilities.
They ask for a 20 amp connection so that would be an extra expense too.
The new one is also about 50K lighter than the old one.
The new 22 -44 Pro DELUXE also comes with Digital readout depth gauge. Now that would be nice to have. :)