I asked for advice

[Demented]

G'Day everybody,well today I happened to be at the Hardware ,you know the one big places with black and white printed brochures:roll:.

In the tool section I spoke to the man who sold me my Router,and told him about the table I intend to build for our BBQ area. I said I didn't want to use PVA for obvious reasons
and asked his advice for a good glue to use,he sent me to the paint section,they sell all the glue's and they'll know the best one.
SO,off I trundled to the paint section and was met at the counter by a woman with a big smile on her face,and the conversation went something like this.

Her....,Morning sir,how can I help you (still smiling)

Me (also smiling).... Morning love,I'm going to build an outdoor table,and wanted to know what glue would be the best to use,I've heard Titebond 111 is very good but also epoxy glue is good also,so which one would you recommend for this type of job??(still smiling).

Her......I wouldn't recommend either of those glues their rubbish,for what you want to do Liquid Nails is the best thing for that.

Me (smile wiped off the face) Liquid Nails?.

Her...Yes it's the best glue around these days(still smiling like an idiot)

Me...Thank you for your help,and walked away muttering something about your a Richard Cranium aren't you.


Ok fella's,so here I am asking my fellow Sawdust makers,What would you recommend?? out of the two,I'm thinking of a combination of Cyprus Pine and Jarrah?,I think the two different colours will work well together to make a nice Table.

[metester]

Are you sure this shouldn't be posted in the joke section where a lot of their advice belongs? I once had to explain to the guy in the tools section what a forstner bit was :doh:.

Anyhow, I have had success with both. Titebond III would be easier to use but, many a boat builder can't be wrong, epoxy will give you the best bond.

[silentC]

Actually, her advice was not as bad as you make it sound. Solvent based construction adhesive is used very extensively in the building industry for gluing anything to just about anything else. It is water proof, flexible, gap filling, and easy to use. We turn our noses up at it but it's actually quite a good product. I have no doubt that two bits of timber glued together with it, no matter how badly fitting the joint, would last a long time. My house is literally riding on it :D

Where she probably went wrong was in not recognising that a woodworker was not going to be very receptive to a recommendation for that particular product because of it's negative connotations in our community. For a builder or home handyman it is a no-brainer.

When making things for outdoors, I tend to avoid designs that require glue at all, but where they do, I understand that Titebond III is the best of your woodworking glues if your joints are good. Use epoxy (West System is one of the best) with filler if they are not.

[Demented]

Are you sure this shouldn't be posted in the joke section where a lot of their advice belongs? I once had to explain to the guy in the tools section what a forstner bit was :doh:.

Anyhow, I have had success with both. Titebond III would be easier to use but, many a boat builder can't be wrong, epoxy will give you the best bond.


Yeah,I must admit I wanted to buy a couple of Dowel Bits at the same time and had to explain the difference to the woman who served me,not that I'm picking because of being a woman,but if they don't know what they sell,why do they put them in a section.

Sometimes I think we're better off just wandering aimlessly until we find what we want:doh:

[Demented]

Actually, her advice was not as bad as you make it sound. Solvent based construction adhesive is used very extensively in the building industry for gluing anything to just about anything else. It is water proof, flexible, gap filling, and easy to use. We turn our noses up at it but it's actually quite a good product. I have no doubt that two bits of timber glued together with it, no matter how badly fitting the joint, would last a long time. My house is literally riding on it :D

Where she probably went wrong was in not recognising that a woodworker was not going to be very receptive to a recommendation for that particular product because of it's negative connotations in our community. For a builder or home handyman it is a no-brainer.

When making things for outdoors, I tend to avoid designs that require glue at all, but where they do, I understand that Titebond III is the best of your woodworking glues if your joints are good. Use epoxy (West System is one of the best) with filler if they are not.

I have used it before,but have always just seen it as a quick fix or a lazy alternative ,sorry if I offend based on what you said about your place,but I tend to avoid using Nails and Screws as much as possible,I prefer to Dowel most joints but that's just me I suppose a little more fiddling but a far better joint.

As for using Liquid Nails on this table?I intend to Tongue and Groove 90% of the joins,so when I clamp them together,I don't know if Liquid Nails would spread as easily as another glue does,so I think I'll just use Titebond.Thanks for the help though:2tsup:

[silentC]

but have always just seen it as a quick fix or a lazy alternativeThat's exactly what I'm talking about. There is a perception in the woodworking community that construction glue is sub-standard when in fact it is very strong and a good choice for many applications. It is what it is. But woodworkers prefer to use woodworking glues.

Don't worry, you haven't offended me. There's not a huge amount of construction glue in my house but there is some and it has been used according to manufacturer's recommendations, so I'm comfortable with that. My floor joists are glued together with polyurethane glue, so I'm hoping that is nice and strong too.

I'm not suggesting you should use it on your table, as you can see from my last paragraph. In fact it defeats the purpose of a T&G joint to glue it at all. They are meant to allow for movement. If you glue it, you might as well butt join it.

What I was actually addressing was the notion that the Bunnings person is a "Richard Cranium" for suggesting it. It's actually not that stupid an idea, just not something that a woodworker wants to hear. One shouldn't expect fine woodworking advice from a Bunnings paint counter attendant.

[Ian Smith]

Actually, her advice was not as bad as you make it sound. Solvent based construction adhesive is used very extensively in the building industry for gluing anything to just about anything else. It is water proof, flexible, gap filling, and easy to use. We turn our noses up at it but it's actually quite a good product. I have no doubt that two bits of timber glued together with it, no matter how badly fitting the joint, would last a long time.

Dunno about the long lasting bit Silent - over time that stuff turns to a dark brown crispy stuff with about the same consistency and strength of the inside of a Violet Crumble Bar - and that's in the dark confines of a wall - Lord knows what a dose of UV will do to it, but my money's on a very short life span.....good for a "Backyard Blitz" type fix up though I suppose


Demented - if you go to that particular store with anything but a plan to buy a specific item having already done your research and received advice elsewhere you are making a serious mistake - you simply won't get the "best price" as well as the best advice as a job lot - yeah I know some will quote exceptions(I've experienced it once or twice as well) but as a general rule that's the way to approach this mob.

Ian

[silentC]

Yes I suppose Liquid Nails is a bad product to rate. They reckon 20 years.

Fullers and Sikaflex make some good stuff though.

Anyhow your second paragraph sums up my feelings on the subject.

[Wongo]

What the hell did you ask for advice in a hardware store for? :smack: :D

Whether what she said was right or wrong, I doubt she knew what Titebond glue was.

I agree with what silent said. Building outdoor furniture is different from building fine furniture. I try not to use glue whenever possible, I use screws (yes screws but never screw into endgrain), paint and traditional joinery skills.


My next project is also a table for my new deck. What do you have in mind?

[NCArcher]

Sometimes I think we're better off just wandering aimlessly until we find what we want:doh:
Works for me in that particular store. :U

[Demented]

That's exactly what I'm talking about. There is a perception in the woodworking community that construction glue is sub-standard when in fact it is very strong and a good choice for many applications. It is what it is. But woodworkers prefer to use woodworking glues.

Don't worry, you haven't offended me. There's not a huge amount of construction glue in my house but there is some and it has been used according to manufacturer's recommendations, so I'm comfortable with that. My floor joists are glued together with polyurethane glue, so I'm hoping that is nice and strong too.

I'm not suggesting you should use it on your table, as you can see from my last paragraph. In fact it defeats the purpose of a T&G joint to glue it at all. They are meant to allow for movement. If you glue it, you might as well butt join it.

What I was actually addressing was the notion that the Bunnings person is a "Richard Cranium" for suggesting it. It's actually not that stupid an idea, just not something that a woodworker wants to hear. One shouldn't expect fine woodworking advice from a Bunnings paint counter attendant.


What you say about Butt Joining did occur to me and I've also thought about blind nailing it together also.
As for the Paint counter? now I think about it,we don't ask a Chemist what a good cut of steak is for a BBQ do we:doh:.

[Demented]

Dunno about the long lasting bit Silent - over time that stuff turns to a dark brown crispy stuff with about the same consistency and strength of the inside of a Violet Crumble Bar - and that's in the dark confines of a wall - Lord knows what a dose of UV will do to it, but my money's on a very short life span.....good for a "Backyard Blitz" type fix up though I suppose


Demented - if you go to that particular store with anything but a plan to buy a specific item having already done your research and received advice elsewhere you are making a serious mistake - you simply won't get the "best price" as well as the best advice as a job lot - yeah I know some will quote exceptions(I've experienced it once or twice as well) but as a general rule that's the way to approach this mob.

Ian

Ian I have to admit there's a little Hardware store not far from me that's been there for years.Yeah they charge a bit more,but when I consider how far it is to the other place the price works out about the same anyway,and they do know their stuff also.
Bayliss Hardware in Rooty Hill,or Seduction Heights as we who live in the area prfer to call it:D

[Demented]

What the hell did you ask for advice in a hardware store for? :smack: :D

Whether what she said was right or wrong, I doubt she knew what Titebond glue was.

I agree with what silent said. Building outdoor furniture is different from building fine furniture. I try not to use glue whenever possible, I use screws (yes screws but never screw into endgrain), paint and traditional joinery skills.


My next project is also a table for my new deck. What do you have in mind?


I'm thinking a combination of Cyprus Pine down the center but having Jarrah as the surround maybe 10cm wide.I really don't know if this will work but I do feel the colour combination will work well together,once it's all sanded down and three or four coats of urethane applied.

Watcha Reckon??

[silentC]

What you say about Butt Joining did occur to me and I've also thought about blind nailing it together also.
I reckon you're on the right track with the T&G if you want a solid top. But without the glue so that it can come and go.

However the design I like for outdoor tables consists of a frame with bridle or M&T joints at the corners and slats to make up the middle. The slats have full width tenons which house into a groove on the inside face of the end rails. You can secure them with a pin from the underneath and they have a 3 or 4mm gap between each slat so that they can move and also to allow water to disperse rather than pooling on top. You can have a mullion across the centre of the table so that the slats only need to be half the length and it gives some rigidity to the top. The mullion is M&T'd into the side rails of the frame. You can glue the M&T joints because they are well protected, or just pin or draw bore them.

[Wongo]

I'm thinking a combination of Cyprus Pine down the center but having Jarrah as the surround maybe 10cm wide.I really don't know if this will work but I do feel the colour combination will work well together,once it's all sanded down and three or four coats of urethane applied.

Watcha Reckon??


Just bear in mind that wood movement is a big issue (like 10000 bigger than wood at indoor)

For me, I will go to the recycled centre to get some 4x2 oregon. Wood will be held together by morises, tennons, pins, wedges and screws.

[Demented]

I reckon you're on the right track with the T&G if you want a solid top. But without the glue so that it can come and go.

However the design I like for outdoor tables consists of a frame with bridle or M&T joints at the corners and slats to make up the middle. The slats have full width tenons which house into a groove on the inside face of the end rails. You can secure them with a pin from the underneath and they have a 3 or 4mm gap between each slat so that they can move and also to allow water to disperse rather than pooling on top. You can have a mullion across the centre of the table so that the slats only need to be half the length and it gives some rigidity to the top. The mullion is M&T'd into the side rails of the frame. You can glue the M&T joints because they are well protected, or just pin or draw bore them.


This one will be outside but living underneath a 6x5 mtr awning,so it really won't get any weather on it such as Rain,yeah it'll cop the summer heat but nothing else.

M&T,T&G very similar joins really?,my router has a max depth of 60mm,I wouldn't go that deep on the sides,I think it's overkill but it will be a good depth for strength though.

My biggest problem at the moment is when I'll be able to get around to starting it,I'm in the middle of building 3 Dolls Cot's and my Darling keeps reminding me the Gardens need some attention also:~ one thing at a time woman.

[Demented]

Just bear in mind that wood movement is a big issue (like 10000 bigger than wood at indoor)

For me, I will go to the recycled centre to get some 4x2 oregon. Wood will be held together by morises, tennons, pins, wedges and screws.


10000 bigger than wood inside,Hmmmmmmmmmm more thought going into it now:?.
Last thing I need to hear is a cracking sound as the table destroys itself in the Heat from expansion eh?

[silentC]

M&T,T&G very similar joins really?
Well, only in the sense that most joints consist of cutting two bits of wood so that one fits inside the other :)

A M&T is intended to be a neat fitting joint with little or no movement between the members. You would usually glue them or draw bore. It is usually used to join two members with the grain at right angles.

On the other hand a T&G is typically a parallel-grain joint with a more roomy fit designed to allow the tongue to move freely within the groove without exposing gaps between the members. Slats like on my table can also come and go but the gaps are not for everyone.

Some people make T&G to help alignment when gluing up larger panels, but it's not necessary.

T&G is OK for outdoor furniture I reckon.

[Demented]

Well, only in the sense that most joints consist of cutting two bits of wood so that one fits inside the other :)

A M&T is intended to be a neat fitting joint with little or no movement between the members. You would usually glue them or draw bore. It is usually used to join two members with the grain at right angles.

On the other hand a T&G is typically a parallel-grain joint with a more roomy fit designed to allow the tongue to move freely within the groove without exposing gaps between the members. Slats like on my table can also come and go but the gaps are not for everyone.

Some people make T&G to help alignment when gluing up larger panels, but it's not necessary.

T&G is OK for outdoor furniture I reckon.


The Table will be 3mtrs long when finished,good size for when the family is here,so your advice is welcomed thanks.
To much work involved to watch is be destroyed by lack of room to move.

[wheelinround]

Demented your in Rooty Hill make sure you know about the Sydney GtG happening soon in your area. http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/x-mass-nicks-fininshed-work-gtg-125377/

[Demented]

Demented your in Rooty Hill make sure you know about the Sydney GtG happening soon in your area. http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/x-mass-nicks-fininshed-work-gtg-125377/


Sorry Mate GTG??You've lost me

[wheelinround]

Get ToGether meeting woodies and wood talk plus food :U

[Demented]

Get ToGether meeting woodies and wood talk plus food :U


Are you going?.hahaha Might have to have a little name badge that just say's Demented:D

[TP1]

I didn't think Titebond 3 was suitable for outdoor use even if it is supposed to be waterproof of sorts. You would have to use a polyurethane type glue which according to their manufacturers are suitable for outside joinery. But as Wongo suggested, additional forms of fixing wouldn't go astray.


Your experience in the hardware store is typical of many salespeople who rubbish anything they don't stock, and therefore cannot sell you at that time. Besides, hardware stores are geared for building maintenance and construction and not the special requirements of furniture

[silentC]

Titebond III is the most advanced wood glue available today. While all Titebond products provide superior performance, Titebond III is especially useful for outdoor applications in cooler temperatures or when concern for substantial moisture calls for the use of a Type I glue (USA boil test).

Woodbond Adhesives Pty Ltd - Products - Titebond Internal, Waterproof and Weatherproof Glues and Adhesives (http://www.titebond.com.au/products/index.htm#ultimate)

Guess Bunnings staff aren't unique in not being 100% conversant with every product on the market, hey? ;)

[TP1]

Interesting stuff. Has anyone used titebond 3 outdoors? It is certainly nicer to use than polyurethane glues.

[Demented]

I didn't think Titebond 3 was suitable for outdoor use even if it is supposed to be waterproof of sorts. You would have to use a polyurethane type glue which according to their manufacturers are suitable for outside joinery. But as Wongo suggested, additional forms of fixing wouldn't go astray.


Your experience in the hardware store is typical of many salespeople who rubbish anything they don't stock, and therefore cannot sell you at that time. Besides, hardware stores are geared for building maintenance and construction and not the special requirements of furniture


Yeah true but you would at least expect them to have some knowledge of things rather than just sprout off the first thing that pops into the head.
I have had similar problems down there before with the staff,in some ways I think I'm a glutton for punishment when I open my mouth down there:doh:.

[Demented]

Woodbond Adhesives Pty Ltd - Products - Titebond Internal, Waterproof and Weatherproof Glues and Adhesives (http://www.titebond.com.au/products/index.htm#ultimate)

Guess Bunnings staff aren't unique in not being 100% conversant with every product on the market, hey? ;)


I don't think their 100% on anything really,like the time a had a sales person in lighting tell me the led down light are far better than the halogen ones.I bought one to try it out,then my wife says,It's got a green glow(light turned off) or is it my eye's?.it appeared to have a glow and on closer inspection found she was right.

So the long and the short of this is,even though the light isn't on,it is,STILL drawing power.
No longer installed:U

[silentC]

I think Ian summed it up: you really don't want to go into Bunnings expecting advice. You might be lucky and strike the guy who is a retired electrician, but most of the time you're going to get someone who knows no more about the subject than you do.

But if your light is still drawing power when it's turned off, the person you should have the issue with is the electrician who wired your house!

[wheelinround]

Are you going?.hahaha Might have to have a little name badge that just say's Demented:D

Depends on the date organised.

You would have trouble with that name badge as many of us are just not proud to name ourselves it.:U

[Barry_White]

I said I didn't want to use PVA for obvious reasons


That is an interesting statement because I was around when PVA glue was invented in the early 50's. As a patternmaker we used the old animal glue then, because that was all was available at the time. The trouble with the animal glue was that it didn't like damp situations and because patterns are subject to damp sand when they are being used to make a mold, patterns tended to deteriorate.

One day a rep came and offered the boss to try the new ubeaut PVA glue he was flogging. He gave us a sample and we glued two lumps of timber with it and let dry.

To test it out we immersed it in a tub of water and weighted it down and left it for a week. After that we took it out and proceed to try and slit the joint by driving a screwdriver down it.

The result was that the glue held and and the timber split leaving the glue joint in place and a thin piece of timber stuck to the other piece.

From that day on we never used animal glue again.

[Demented]

But if your light is still drawing power when it's turned off, the person you should have the issue with is the electrician who wired your house![/QUOTE]

Well it's either that or the diodes and resistors in it to make it work that draw the power.

As for the Spark who did the place?probably pushing up Daisy's now,we've been here 19yrs and it was around the 20 mark when we bought it.

[Demented]

That is an interesting statement because I was around when PVA glue was invented in the early 50's. As a patternmaker we used the old animal glue then, because that was all was available at the time. The trouble with the animal glue was that it didn't like damp situations and because patterns are subject to damp sand when they are being used to make a mold, patterns tended to deteriorate.

One day a rep came and offered the boss to try the new ubeaut PVA glue he was flogging. He gave us a sample and we glued two lumps of timber with it and let dry.

To test it out we immersed it in a tub of water and weighted it down and left it for a week. After that we took it out and proceed to try and slit the joint by driving a screwdriver down it.

The result was that the glue held and and the timber split leaving the glue joint in place and a thin piece of timber stuck to the other piece.

From that day on we never used animal glue again.


Don't take me wrong on the remark about PVA,it's a good glue and found in most Carpentry Places.
My main concern was the fact that the Table when finished will be outside,Under Cover but still outside and thought it just might not have the strength to take the conditions.

You've got me a bit curious though about the test you tried all those years ago,would the PVA of today still be as good after a week underwater??.

[Demented]

Depends on the date organised.

You would have trouble with that name badge as many of us are just not proud to name ourselves it.:U


The name badge doesn't worry me,my wife thought I was Demented a long long time ago anyway,LOL.
She's already said she will embroider it on my shirt for me:2tsup:.

[acmegridley]

Trouble with Bunnies they have been indoctrinated by Selleys if Selleys dont make it,bad luck,dont even stock Titebond.:q

[Demented]

Trouble with Bunnies they have been indoctrinated by Selleys if Selleys dont make it,bad luck,dont even stock Titebond.:q

HAHAHAHA,so how long do you reckon it'll be before we hear 'Would you like Silastic with that" then they could work for Golden Arches,hahaha.

[TP1]

I don't think their 100% on anything really,like the time a had a sales person in lighting tell me the led down light are far better than the halogen ones.I bought one to try it out,then my wife says,It's got a green glow(light turned off) or is it my eye's?.it appeared to have a glow and on closer inspection found she was right.

So the long and the short of this is,even though the light isn't on,it is,STILL drawing power.
No longer installed:U

Your LED light is not at fault. It will be glowing due to either of the following:

1. LED's are so sensitive that it is possible for them to faintly glow through the EMF radiated by the 50 hz power flowing throughout the house. The fact that it was green and barely visible would support this. With any direct electrical current it should have glowed more brightly.

2. Electrical leakage through your light switch assuming you are not just using a dimmer. You could test the switch by trying the LED on different light circuits and I doubt they will all be faulty.

Finally. the above will not affect halogen lights because they need more power than LEDs to begin glowing.

[Demented]

Your LED light is not at fault. It will be glowing due to either of the following:

1. LED's are so sensitive that it is possible for them to faintly glow through the EMF radiated by the 50 hz power flowing throughout the house. The fact that it was green and barely visible would support this. With any direct electrical current it should have glowed more brightly.

2. Electrical leakage through your light switch assuming you are not just using a dimmer. You could test the switch by trying the LED on different light circuits and I doubt they will all be faulty.

Finally. the above will not affect halogen lights because they need more power than LEDs to begin glowing.


Thanks for that,but I prefer the Halogen down lights anyway,the LED was a hard wire straight to 240V and really didn't give as much light as Halogen anyway.
But I suppose it was a good idea at the time.

[Master Splinter]

A faint glow from a LED can also be the fluorescent dyes/doping agents inside the LED getting rid of their last surplus electrons via quantum mechanical means.

When you switch the light off, there will always be some electrons trapped at what are called 'forbidden transition states' - quantum mechanical uncertainty will see them eventually decay out of this state, but it can take minutes or hours (this is the principal of all those glow in the dark Halloween novelties).

[Demented]

A faint glow from a LED can also be the fluorescent dyes/doping agents inside the LED getting rid of their last surplus electrons via quantum mechanical means.

When you switch the light off, there will always be some electrons trapped at what are called 'forbidden transition states' - quantum mechanical uncertainty will see them eventually decay out of this state, but it can take minutes or hours (this is the principal of all those glow in the dark Halloween novelties).


Your way above my head on this,so I'll just bow to you and say Thanks:2tsup:

[Andy Mac]

I've noticed the use of Liquid Nails etc is the default selection when glueing wood by students who come into my workshop, and not from my recommendation! It seems that home handyman shows, or advice from sales staff at the big hardware stores are the reasons.
I shudder when I see it but mainly from an aesthetic point of view- the glue lines stand out like dogs' ...., and an absolute pain to sand or otherwise remove excess. The linisher or random sander make a horrible mess with it, turning what could be a straight forward task into a "why do I bother":((.
I lean towards epoxy if I'm after reliable, water resistant joints, but have recently been using Exterior Aquadhere for silk screen printing frames, which get regularly soaked with a pressure cleaner.

Cheers

[Demented]

I've noticed the use of Liquid Nails etc is the default selection when glueing wood by students who come into my workshop, and not from my recommendation! It seems that home handyman shows, or advice from sales staff at the big hardware stores are the reasons.
I shudder when I see it but mainly from an aesthetic point of view- the glue lines stand out like dogs' ...., and an absolute pain to sand or otherwise remove excess. The linisher or random sander make a horrible mess with it, turning what could be a straight forward task into a "why do I bother":((.
I lean towards epoxy if I'm after reliable, water resistant joints, but have recently been using Exterior Aquadhere for silk screen printing frames, which get regularly soaked with a pressure cleaner.

Cheers


Andy,I do believe these TV Handyman Shows have a lot to answer for,we see so many time where they plug these products that give you the ,and I quote you "Why do I bother:((" effect.
I've seen so many times where they plug "Glue and Screw" why not just Glue and Nail if that's the case,punch the nail head in,fill the hole and sand,looks much better than seeing the screw head rebated into the Timber.

I still lean towards Doweling more times than not,yeah it's a bit more on the fiddly side at times,but once glued and clamped,the whole piece becomes one solid piece of Timber again,as for Liquid Nails?,Yeah I have used it on the odd occasions but I still see it as a lazy mans alternative or quick fix,but then! that's just me.

I've only just completed the First of Three Dolls cots,this one being the prototype took a bit longer with working out measurements and depths ,but I'm a happy man to have it done.It's a shame I have to cover it all with Pink Paint now:~ but you know little girls,they love Pink:U.

[mic-d]

So you called some poor lass at Big B a Richard Cranium when you already knew the answer to your question - epoxy or titebondIII. Then you go on to claim that your lights are drawing power, ahem, from a closed circuit and lastly you poo poo screwing and claim that dowelling is superior. Well dowels are just about the worst thing you can use to reinforce joints, there is virtually no side grain glueing surface. They might be ok for locating purposes not much more. So, just as you looked on the lass at B as an RC, some could look on you in the same light. For myself, I wouldn't because we are all on a learning curve and have different experiences, many have much more experience than you or me, I hope they would not think of us as RC's but help to educate us instead. All we need to do is empty our cup and be willing to learn, and in turn pass that knowledge on.

Cheers
Michael

[watson]

All we need to do is empty our cup and be willing to learn, and in turn pass that knowledge on.

Cheers
Michael

That'd be nice Michael...Forum Nirvana :2tsup: :2tsup:

[Demented]

So you called some poor lass at Big B a Richard Cranium when you already knew the answer to your question - epoxy or titebondIII. Then you go on to claim that your lights are drawing power, ahem, from a closed circuit and lastly you poo poo screwing and claim that dowelling is superior. Well dowels are just about the worst thing you can use to reinforce joints, there is virtually no side grain glueing surface. They might be ok for locating purposes not much more. So, just as you looked on the lass at B as an RC, some could look on you in the same light. For myself, I wouldn't because we are all on a learning curve and have different experiences, many have much more experience than you or me, I hope they would not think of us as RC's but help to educate us instead. All we need to do is empty our cup and be willing to learn, and in turn pass that knowledge on.

Cheers
Michael


Gee,what do I say? except for the light bit.Anytime you feel the need to come down here,I'll gladly rewire this light for you,turn it and then off again and hand you a towel,just so you can wipe the egg off of your face when you notice it still glows.

[silentC]

I shudder when I see it but mainly from an aesthetic point of view
I'm not going to defend liquid nails for woodworking. It's silly. But so is going into Bunnings and expecting them to be expert in woodworking glues.

It is what it is. It is widely used in the construction industry. Well, not liquid nails, but polyurethane construction adhesives like SikaFlex, which is quite highly regarded. But you can't beat mechanical fastening.

I've got 12 firewood boxes that I made from 12mm chipboard cover sheets. Each box was glued together with a product like liquid nails (I think it was Mitre10 branded) and held with a few nails from the finishing gun. 4 years later they are all still in one piece and they get a hard life - chucked in a trailer, filled with 15 or 20 kg of firewood, stacked and later carried one by one into the house as needed. Each box has been through that process more than hundred times.

It's not entirely useless but I wouldn't use it to glue up an outdoor table. But then I wouldn't glue up an outdoor table top. I'd make it so it can move. Even if it was going to be undercover - I might move house one day.

And I certainly wouldn't use dowels :)