Simms 15th October 2010, 03:16 PM Somehow I've persuaded myself to buy a Colen Clenton 8" try square. I like the look of the Rose Sheoak version, but was a little concerned after asking my old mate Wikipedia for details about this timber. Wikipedia claims (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allocasuarina_torulosa) (without reference) that "Rose Sheoak has the largest contraction along the grain (12%) of any Australian wood and needs to be dried carefully to get full value as a useful timber."
I know nothing about these things, but it seems to me that this would make it less suitable for marking and measuring tools, particularly squares. On the other hand, Colen has been playing this game for a long time - he certainly knows what he's doing - and he seems to favour the Sheoak. Does Rose Sheoak become very stable after its dried properly? Or would the Tasmanian Blackwood version be a better option?
I'd love to hear your opinions or experiences.
pommyphil 15th October 2010, 03:51 PM I don't think Colen would use it if it wasn't stable. It's hard and very pretty.
justinmcf 15th October 2010, 05:08 PM i've had my clenton rose sheoak 10 inch square and marking gauge for 1 year now.
the timber is still very beautiful and has no damage to it at all. no cracks or splits due to unstable timber.
i would be very surprised if colen would put that much effort into making these highly precise instruments with unstable timber.
justin.
Saw Crack 15th October 2010, 07:19 PM Bring it home:
Lost Art Press Blog - For Sale: Colen Clenton 8" Adjustable Try Square (http://blog.lostartpress.com/2010/10/07/For+Sale+Colen+Clenton+8+Adjustable+Try+Square.aspx)
Geoff Dean 15th October 2010, 07:23 PM My 8" is the blackwood
I am very very happy with it. :D
Groggy 15th October 2010, 07:46 PM Colen is (justifiably) very proud of his tools and workmanship. If you were to have any problem with the tool whatsoever I am very confident that he would correct or replace it.
I see it as a low risk purchase, he looks after his customers, tools and his reputation with equal care.
Simms 15th October 2010, 08:04 PM Thanks for all your responses, and for reaffirming my belief that these are world class tools.
Justin, I wasn't worried about cracks or splits, just minor wood movement, figuring even very small changes would not be good news for a square. Out of interest, how often do people actually use the calibration screws?
Bring it home:
Lost Art Press Blog - For Sale: Colen Clenton 8" Adjustable Try Square (http://blog.lostartpress.com/2010/10/07/For+Sale+Colen+Clenton+8+Adjustable+Try+Square.aspx)
Mmm, the Blackwood also looks good. Chris Schwarz is only willing to post his current swag of excess tools within the US, so I'll let that one continue racking up international fame and glory for its maker. The local new price is not very different from that anyway.
Still deciding... I'll put an order in tomorrow and post a pic when it arrives.
Eldanos of KDM 15th October 2010, 08:08 PM Haven't read any other posts but I don't think Colen would use a timber that wasn't suitable... :2tsup:
derekcohen 15th October 2010, 09:17 PM The Sheoak is very nice (I swapped this one with Colen for a marking knife set - I think I got the better deal) ..
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Marking%20and%20Measuring/ColenClentonmitre2.jpg
I think that the Ebony is nicer (top left) ..
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Workbench%20and%20Workshop/Tools%20as%20Art/Tools1.jpg
I like Tassie Blackwood (probably my favourite wood) but the Rose Sheoak cutting gauge is very striking (These were prizes last year in the Aust Wood Review Toolmaking comp) ...
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Marking%20and%20Measuring/ColenClentonprize1.jpg
Sorry the pics are not clearer.
Regards from Perth
Derek
groeneaj 15th October 2010, 09:25 PM Now your just showing off Derek :wink:
A very nice collection you have there indeed.
Just a question (not trying to hijack this thread) but I am in the market for a quality square and I am looking at a starrett combination Starrett® Combination Squares - Lee Valley Tools (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=57065&cat=1,42936)
How does a combo square compare to a dedicated square, such as Colin's for accuracy?
Cheers, Andy
derekcohen 15th October 2010, 10:04 PM Now your just showing off Derek
Absolutely Andy!
I really do not need all these squares. I do use the mitres and the 8" square frequently. The 8" has a really nice balance. I considered selling off a couple, but they have sentimental value, and so I decided to keep them.
I probably use a 6" Starrett double-square the most. This is a great square for joinery. For wide boards I have a 12" Starrett combo. In fact I have one in metric and one in imperial. All purchased on Fleabay (US) for cents in the Dollar. Look there before going retail.
Regards from Perth
Derek
BobL 15th October 2010, 10:20 PM Somehow I've persuaded myself to buy a Colen Clenton 8" try square. I like the look of the Rose Sheoak version, but was a little concerned after asking my old mate Wikipedia for details about this timber. Wikipedia claims (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allocasuarina_torulosa) (without reference) that "Rose Sheoak has the largest contraction along the grain (12%) of any Australian wood and needs to be dried carefully to get full value as a useful timber."
This sounds like Wiki has got it wrong (again!). Radial and tangential shrinkage is typically 20 and 40s times more than longitudinal shrinkage. Base on a longitudinal shrinkage of 12% this would make the Radial Shrinkage 240% and the Tangential Shrinkage 480% which would make all Rose Sheoak pieces into pretzels, Actual R and T shrinkages for sheoaks are 3 - 6.5% and 6 - 9% making the longitudinal shrinkage around 0.08 to 0.3% ie not much. Quoting another Wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_drying)
"Shrinkage from the pith outwards, or radially, is usually considerably less than tangential shrinkage, while longitudinal (along the grain) shrinkage is so slight as to be usually neglected."
In most cases longitudinal shrinkage of softwoods is considered so small as to be ignored.
Here is a table listing species followed by two numbers which are the % T & R shrinkage. I cannot find any data for Rose Sheoak, but Karri oak is supposed to be a close relative and you can see it's nothing special.
Karri oak 8 6.5
Jarrah 7 5
Karri 10 4.5
River Redgum 8 4
Spotty 6 4
Tassie blue 14 7
Rock Oak 6.5 3.5
WA Sheoak 4.5 1.2
Swamp Sheoak 9.2 3.2
Sometimes T & R values are added together as a measure of shrinkage Which might be what was done for the Rose Sheoak.
Simms 15th October 2010, 10:21 PM Thanks for the other pics Derek, very nice. Think I've seen a couple of them before, actually - your tools seem to have a habit of becoming internet celebrities. As for my decision, maybe the solution is to buy one tool in each wood. :roll: I won't be able to get that idea out of my head now.
I gather the ebony we're looking at here is an African or Indian timber, not an Australian "ebony"? I like the idea of Australian tools made from Australian wood.
Andy:
Until now I've just had a Stanley combination square. Because of the sliding mechanism I've never trusted the thing - always get the impression it's sneaking out of square on the sly. Of course whenever I look it squarely in the eye and test it by the scribe and flip method, it's dead on again, much to my annoyance. The Starretts would be better, and for woodworking I doubt you'd notice any difference between a Starrett combination and a good fixed square when new.
I'm going for the CC square because I rarely use any of the combinationy bits, but will also grab a 3" Starrett engineers square for the purpose of being handy and ridiculously accurate.
A similar question was asked here in a very old thread (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/starrett-combination-colen-clenton-fixed-square-17645/).
Simms 15th October 2010, 10:58 PM Ah, thanks BobL, that's the disconfirmation of Wikipedia's blatant lies I was after. Yes, 480% tangential shrinkage seems quite a bit. Perhaps they were thinking of old chip packets in the oven? Some of the technical gibberish in the other article was a bit beyond me, but I like to think you've made me a skerrick wiser.
There doesn't seem to be any such thing as an unhappy CC tool owner, which suggests none of his squares have ever been spontaneously pretzelled.
groeneaj 15th October 2010, 10:58 PM I had a look at the Colen Clenton squares today at the Melbourne show (happened to be in luck that i'm in Melbourne) and they just look amazing, along with the Chris Vespers squares. I think you'll be very happy with your purchase.
If I do go the Starrett, i'll be getting it from LV, along with my BU LA Jack. I just sent them an email to see if they have any metric in stock.
From reading that old thread it seems that it's an individual choice. I think i'm leaning towards the Starrett due to it's versatility.
fletty 17th October 2010, 07:19 PM I have a collection of Colen's adjustable squares and they are in use constantly. I have a wheeled caddy that holds router bits, tools specific to different machines, spare parts, light, pens etc etc and the caddy gets wheeled to the machine I'm using at the time. The squares are mounted on the backboard of the caddy so they are always at hand.
I find I check them for square at the beginning of any major project and, about once in every 4 or 5 checks, I find they need an adjustment. When I compare them to my old fixed squares which were 'out' when purchased ... and still are!
I haven't tried to create a matched set (nor have I for HNT's planes) and I enjoy each one as an individual, not part of a set. However my favourite timber from Colen is lace sheoak and my favourite from Terry is on a beautiful coolabah burl 3/4" shoulder plane.
I wouldn't worry about which timber you choose, the square IS adjustable AND Colen is a superethical craftsman and supplier.
fletty
groeneaj 18th October 2010, 12:22 AM I ended up buying Colen's 8" Ebony square on Saturday at the show.
He is such a genuine, all-round great bloke.
The pic with the two squares was my first ever square that I bought about 2 years ago. I think Colen's is slighty straighter, what do you think?
kevjed 18th October 2010, 01:52 AM I went for Ebony and I'm still very happy with it.
Enjoy
Kevin
IanW 18th October 2010, 08:42 AM Simms, just to add to the chorus of positive experiences with CC squares. I bought my 6" She-oak square back in his early days. It is the perfect size for 99% of what I do, so it is in constant use. Sometime in it's first year or two, it got knocked off the bench & had a very hard landing, which resulted in a hairline crack above the brass dowel the blade pivots on. Since it was my own fault, I was prepared to just wear it, or figure out how to fix it myself. However, I happened to mention it to Colen at the next woodshow & asked if I could buy a new stock from him. He would have none of that, saying it just shouldn't have happened, & without the slightest hesitation, took the cracked stock back & gave me a new one. That was a long time ago, and the square has had a couple more falls since (I don't think I'm careless by any means, but it's inevitable that a tool that gets as much use as this one has the occasional accident). The stock has remained as sound as a bell (& stable!) and at such times it's reassuring to check & adjust for square if necessary.
Since acquiring my CC square I have become a big fan of using she-oak for all sorts of tools that I make. I have harvested quite a bit of it myself, and can vouch that it certainly doesn't shrink by 12% along the grain, or anything like it! It is horribly prone to radial cracking if not handled carefully, but once dry, it seems to be an extremely stable wood. It's a common weed tree (:U) on the old farm where I grew up, and great for stove-fodder, so I steal some of my brother's firewood every now & then, when I get up there.
I think whoever wrote that in Wikipedia made a typo, & put the decimal point two digits to the right. I doubt there is a wood anywhere in the world with longitudinal shrinkage of 12%, but maybe there is......
Cheers,
Simms 18th October 2010, 01:51 PM Thanks very much for all your responses. Very informative. The Blackwood has been growing on me over the last few days, so in the end I've ordered that, but if I buy any more of Colen's tools, they'll probably be She-oak. Ian, thanks for your comments about making your own tools from the stuff. I also agree with Fletty in that tools should be considered individually, and not part nof a set.
Simms 17th November 2010, 06:37 PM Well I said I'd post a pic when the square arrived, so here you go. I figure when you're spending like this, people like to see as many examples as possible. Photos from my phone don't really do it justice, as you might expect. On my screen the third photo is the closest representation of the actual appearance of the timber. The precision of each edge and the overall finish is exceptional. It's dead square as delivered, so I probably won't be touching the adjuster screws for a while.
Presenting Colen Clenton's 8" try square in Blackwood:
groeneaj 17th November 2010, 06:53 PM Very nice!
You'll find it a joy to use. I have been using mine quite alot recently and you'll soon forget the cost when you start using it.
Andy
Mr Brush 17th November 2010, 06:54 PM Andy - you may have trouble getting the exact Starrett combination square you want, e.g. a 6" combination square in metric.
I bought mine from here - they have a selection wizard that basically lets you specify exactly the square you are after.
Starrett Combination Square Selection Wizard at Tools for Working Wood (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=ST-COM.XX&Category_Code=&Search=Starrett)
I was able to get a 6" Starrett combo square, with metric markings, satin chrome finish (which I highly recommend - much easier to read). Shipping is very reasonable, as they will send via standard USPS mail.
groeneaj 17th November 2010, 07:00 PM Andy - you may have trouble getting the exact Starrett combination square you want, e.g. a 6" combination square in metric.
I bought mine from here - they have a selection wizard that basically lets you specify exactly the square you are after.
Starrett Combination Square Selection Wizard at Tools for Working Wood (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=ST-COM.XX&Category_Code=&Search=Starrett)
I was able to get a 6" Starrett combo square, with metric markings, satin chrome finish (which I highly recommend - much easier to read). Shipping is very reasonable, as they will send via standard USPS mail.
Thanks for the link - I ended up getting the CC square instead. However I wouldn't might an adjustable square down the track, so the link will be handy :2tsup:
wheelinround 17th November 2010, 07:08 PM I have a collection of Colen's adjustable squares and they are in use constantly. I have a wheeled caddy that holds router bits, tools specific to different machines, spare parts, light, pens etc etc and the caddy gets wheeled to the machine I'm using at the time. The squares are mounted on the backboard of the caddy so they are always at hand.
I find I check them for square at the beginning of any major project and, about once in every 4 or 5 checks, I find they need an adjustment. When I compare them to my old fixed squares which were 'out' when purchased ... and still are!
I haven't tried to create a matched set (nor have I for HNT's planes) and I enjoy each one as an individual, not part of a set. However my favourite timber from Colen is lace sheoak and my favourite from Terry is on a beautiful coolabah burl 3/4" shoulder plane.
I wouldn't worry about which timber you choose, the square IS adjustable AND Colen is a superethical craftsman and supplier.
fletty
Nice squares Fletty :; always at hand :rolleyes: eh
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