Timber storage and balance issues

[Grumpy John]

I was wondering if the way green timber is stored has any effect on the balance of the piece when being turned. I store my logs as in the photo, as it is the most space effecient way. I store bowl blanks on the flat for the same reason.
Does storing logs the way I do cause the moisture in the log to settle in the bottom half which would cause balance issues, or does the moisture stay within the capilaries ( I think that's the right word) and have little or no effect on the balance?
I seal the ends of the logs to help reduce cracking.

150831

[Sawdust Maker]

Didn't Neil (benevolent dictator) post to this effect the other day?
I'll see if I can find it

[Grumpy John]

Didn't Neil (benevolent dictator) post to this effect the other day?
I'll see if I can find it

Found it :-, post #6 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/hhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeellllllllllppppppppp-125273/)
Looks like I've got to go and re-arrange my timber :((, or become anal enough to remember to rotate the logs every couple of days :no:.

[Sawdust Maker]

Can't say I've read in any of the books or anywhere that you have to rotate your logs ...
just what I need, something else to do :doh:

[Grumpy John]

........
just what I need, something else to do :doh:

Anything that gives you an excuse to spend more time in the shed can't be all bad :rolleyes:.

[NeilS]

Does storing logs the way I do cause the moisture in the log to settle in the bottom half which would cause balance issues



Yes, until it's 'dry'.

Store with grain parallel to ground.

.

[Grumpy John]

Yes, until it's 'dry'.

Store with grain parallel to ground.

.

Don't you mean, at right angles (on end)?

[TTIT]

Don't you mean, at right angles (on end)?The ideal situation is to lay them flat so the grain is horizontal as both the Neils said but then you also have to make sure they can breath so you need to sticker them - which is a PITA! - and the one you want is always on the bottom of the stack :~
I like to go for a comprimise and stand them up, making sure the grain is still in the horizontal orientation. This way you get a lot more on the shelf and don't have to worry about stickers and if there is any imbalance due to moisture-shift, it is too minimal to worry the Stubby :;:U

[NeilS]

Don't you mean, at right angles (on end)?

No, I meant horizontal. Think of a log of wood as being a bundle of very thin drinking straws. Stand the log on end (the way it grows) and the moisture will gravitate to the bottom. In the living tree the moisture was being held and drawn up by the capillary action of the leaves. Without that effect the moisture 'drains' under gravity.

It's more complex than that but it's a useful way to think about it when storing your wood.

Laying the log horizontally overcomes the gravity effect .

.

[Grumpy John]

Yes, until it's 'dry'.

Store with grain parallel to ground.

.


The ideal situation is to lay them flat so the grain is horizontal as both the Neils said but then you also have to make sure they can breath so you need to sticker them - which is a PITA! - and the one you want is always on the bottom of the stack :~
I like to go for a comprimise and stand them up, making sure the grain is still in the horizontal orientation. This way you get a lot more on the shelf and don't have to worry about stickers and if there is any imbalance due to moisture-shift, it is too minimal to worry the Stubby :;:U


No, I meant horizontal. Think of a log of wood as being a bundle of very thin drinking straws. Stand the log on end (the way it grows) and the moisture will gravitate to the bottom. In the living tree the moisture was being held and drawn up by the capillary action of the leaves. Without that effect the moisture 'drains' under gravity.

It's more complex than that but it's a useful way to think about it when storing your wood.

Laying the log horizontally overcomes the gravity effect .

.

O.K. now I'm officially confused :?. Maybe I misunderstand the term horizontal, maybe I misunderstand the term "with the grain", maybe I didn't explain myself very well, maybe.............:?

The photo below shows what I understand to mean storing horizontal, in this position I believe the grain to be running left to right (horizontally), or if you prefer, right to left. For the sake of argument pretend that this is a freshly cut log laying on the ground.

150867

What I was asking was, will the moisture in the log slowly work it's way to the bottom of the log and cause an out of balance condition when turned as stored, horizontally, i.e. between centres.

If this is the case then surely the log should be stored as in the picture below, vertically? The moisture will still gravitate to the bottom of the log, but when mounted between centres, with the "heavy" end at the headstock, would not be as out of balance as a log stored horizontally.

150868


hor·i·zon·tal adj.
1. Of, relating to, or near the horizon.
2. a. Parallel to or in the plane of the horizon.
b. At right angles to a vertical line.

3. Occupying or restricted to the same level in a hierarchy: a horizontal study of verbal ability; a horizontal transfer by an employee.

n. Something, such as a line, plane, or object, that is horizontal.

ver·ti·cal adj.
1. Being or situated at right angles to the horizon; upright.
2. Situated at the vertex or highest point; directly overhead.
3. Anatomy Of or relating to the vertex of the head.
4. Economics Relating to or involving all stages from production to sale: vertical integration.
5. Relating to or composed of elements at different levels, as of society.

n. 1. Something vertical, as a line, plane, or circle.
2. A vertical position.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I think you're all talking at cross-purposes, GJ. :;

That first pic you showed looks more like a roughed bowl-blank than a log, per se.

For a bowl blank, Vern has it right. As he points out, storing them on edge is a compromise... and then the grain should be stored horizontally.

For long(ish) logs though, it's another matter. I've found that yes, it does seem to end up heavier on the bottom. I'm not sure why (probably something to do with the way my longer logs are "stored" in the backyard in exactly the way they fall off the trailer :B) but I store the logs I can on end for just the reasons you describe.

[Grumpy John]

I think you're all talking at cross-purposes, GJ. :;

That first pic you showed looks more like a roughed bowl-blank than a log, per se.

For a bowl blank, Vern has it right. As he points out, storing them on edge is a compromise... and then the grain should be stored horizontally.

For long(ish) logs though, it's another matter. I've found that yes, it does seem to end up heavier on the bottom. I'm not sure why (probably something to do with the way my longer logs are "stored" in the backyard in exactly the way they fall off the trailer :B) but I store the logs I can on end for just the reasons you describe.

Fair point skew, the photo does look like a blank, but I specifically said log. I then stated later that I stored my blanks flat (horizontal). Anyway it's sorted now and all's good :2tsup:.

P.S. you're up late tonight Skew, is it the only way you can sneak some 'puter time :p :D.

[joe greiner]

What Skew said.

There are 3 directions possible.

For a BOWL blank, flat with grain horizontal would be best; on edge with grain horizontal intermediate; and on the other edge (90 degrees away, with grain vertical) worst, because water would tend toward the bottom edge.

For SPINDLE turning, grain vertical, because endwise balance doesn't matter.

Cheers,
Joe

[NeilS]

What Skew said.

There are 3 directions possible.

For a BOWL blank, flat with grain horizontal would be best; on edge with grain horizontal intermediate; and on the other edge (90 degrees away, with grain vertical) worst, because water would tend toward the bottom edge.

For SPINDLE turning, grain vertical, because endwise balance doesn't matter.

Cheers,
Joe

:whs:

[rsser]

Somewhere it is written that water in wood takes two forms: that in the cells and that outside.

Oddly, when drying it seems that the cell-bound stuff goes first.

May be osmotic pressure. In which case I suggest you rub the blank liberally with olive oil, salt and pepper. Maybe a touch of lemon juice?

[RETIRED]

Sauted or BBQ'd and with chips?:D

[RETIRED]

These might interest you John.

Wood drying - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_drying)

Education - Seasoning (http://www.timber.org.au/NTEP/menu.asp?id=86)

[Grumpy John]

Thanks for the links , they gave the grey matter a workout :D.