Changing the top quill bearing to a taper one on a HM52

[Dave J]

Hi,
I spoke about changing the top quill bearing over from a deep groove bearing a few months ago. After using it for a month, I find it to give better results and the taper bearing is designed for both axial and radial load were as the deep groove standard one is not.
I first thought of this idea when regreasing the bearings just after getting the mill new and seeing they put a deep groove bearing at the top?:? I remembered seeing a bench top mill that had taper bearing top and bottom which seemed logical and after a bit of a search I found it again.
Round Column Mill Drill Spindle Quill Removal Procedure! Harbor Freight 8x12 and Sieg X2 Mini Mill, DRO, CNC Conversion Plans, Machining/Metalworking How-tos and Resources (http://www.fignoggle.com/machines/round-column-mill-drills/round-column-mill-drill-spindle-quill-removal-procedure.htm)
You can also see in the pictures lower down that page, the bench top mills have a lot more cast inside around the quill for support.

I went and bought all new SKF bearings for the entire mill (well under $200) and took along the quill and spindle to discuss it with the the guys at SKF. There thoughts confirmed mine, that it should be a taper bearing, but gave the usual disclaimer that they were not engineers.
The new taper bearing 32009 X/Q sits higher (20mm instead of 16mm) in the centre than the deep groove one, so the spindle would only be left with a few full threads for the standard nut and tab washer to thread onto it. There was also the problem of the taper bearing not having rubber shields like the standard bearing so it would need a cover of some sort.
I thought about it a bit and could see that to get more thread engagement I could make a nut with a extended centre that goes down inside the bearing and be large enough to cover the whole bearing out to the edge of the quill. The shaft that the bearing sits on is 45mm and the threaded area is M40x1.5, so that gives a 2.5mm gap ( 2.4mm allowing for clearance) between the bearing and the thread each side which allows the nut to go inside.
I found the standard nut to be a really loose fit from being made to big and the standard bearing only sat 3/4 of way on the spindle as standard. So I could not see that the extra 4mm of height of the taper bearing being unsupported being a problem as it will be on 11mm of it's 20 height and the top bearing has almost no weight on it compared to the bottom.
I used some emery paper on the spindle with it in the lathe because the fit on both standard and taper bearings was a medium to heavy press fit. Adjusting the preload would be near impossible if left the way it was, so I took it down enough to be a light press fit. The bearing can be pushed on about a 1/8 of the way by hand and then needs the nut to press it on further.

Important
If the spindle to bearing clearance is left too tight, when you adjust the preload with the nut, the bearing will bind on the shaft and then when there enough pressure it will jump down the shaft (instead of sliding down), causing it to over preload the bearings. Also if you do happen to over preload it with a tight fit, it will take some big hits with a hammer to back it off, which is not good for your new bearings. You should be able to turn the nut with a C spanner (the one from a ER32 collet chuck works) fairly easily to push the bearing onto the shaft.

Taper bearing fitted showing how the centre is raised and the little amount of thread left. The standard bearing sits flush with the top of the quill so there is almost full engagement of the standard nut with it's tab washer.
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Picture3265Medium.jpg


The only thing I had handy was a shed base plate I picked up, I cut a piece out to make the nut.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Picture3248Medium.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Picture3250Medium.jpg

I cut the corners off on the bandsaw to save so many interrupted cuts on the lathe and drilled a hole for a shaft to be welded in temporary to machine it. When I was finished I faced it off and it cut through the welds to separated the two. I then turned it around and machined the other side to shape, bored it out and cut the 40 x 1.5 thread. I then machined the spanner slots on the mill with a 5mm end mill and the 4 holes for the M4 grub screw. I decided to go with a grub screw instead of the original tab washer because there was no way to fit it, and the tabs were already showing wear with one broken. Only one grub screw is used and it works out well, when one hole goes out of alignment with the lower part of the spline the next hole picks up on another. You can get to this grub screw on the HM52 through the hole in the side of the head that has a little round aluminum plate on it.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Picture3251Medium.jpg


http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Picture3252Medium.jpg





http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Picture3254Medium.jpg

After oil blackening
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Picture3263Medium.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Picture3261Medium.jpg

Standard nut and tab washer fitted showing how little thread is engaged with the taper bearing.
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Picture3275Medium.jpg

New nut with taper bearing.
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Picture3277Medium.jpg

The plate the nut came out of
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Picture3292Medium.jpg

Dave

[Plushy]

Beautiful Work Dave ! :2tsup:

[Stustoys]

Nice as always Dave
How do you oil the top bearing now?
Stuart

[Dave J]

Nice as always Dave
How do you oil the top bearing now?
Stuart

These are greased not oiled like yours. The original was a standard sealed grease lubricated bearing.
I will swap you mills if you don't want to oil your anymore. LOL
The pictures only show the trial fitting here is the one before the quill was installed.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Picture3305Medium.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Picture3307Medium.jpg

Dave
PS
If anybody is wondering why I am putting double pictures up, it is because I see on so many forums where people have closed their Photo bucket accounts and the thread is left with no pictures to show or explain.
This way you get to see the photos full size in the thread and if anything ever happens to my account it will have the clickable thumbnails still here on the forum. Hope that makes sense?

[Stustoys]

These are greased not oiled like yours. The original was a standard sealed grease lubricated bearing.
I will swap you mills if you don't want to oil your anymore. LOL
The pictures only show the trial fitting here is the one before the quill was installed.

And the bottom bearing?
No No it's fine, I'm starting to like my old mill now.

Stuart

It makes sense but there is something funny with my pc, most of the time I only see the links and have to click anyway. Must be a setting somewhere

[Dave J]

Here you go, it's greased as well.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Picture3303Medium.jpg

The pictures show up strait away on mine.

Dave

[eskimo]

great work Dave
when is my nut due to arrive....lol

has it fixed the spline rattle?

Ronmack sent over a new top but no shaft....I will replace and see what happens but I expect it will all be the same as it is now

[DJ’s Timber]

If anybody is wondering why I am putting double pictures up, it is because I see on so many forums where people have closed their Photo bucket accounts and the thread is left with no pictures to show or explain.
This way you get to see the photos full size in the thread and if anything ever happens to my account it will have the clickable thumbnails still here on the forum. Hope that makes sense?

You can copy the URL of the fullsize image at the time of uploading them and insert into the post rather than the photobucket ones. After the image has been uploaded, just right click and copy from the list below the reply box then insert.

[Bryan]

It makes sense but there is something funny with my pc, most of the time I only see the links and have to click anyway. Must be a setting somewhere

Stuart, in User CP, click Edit Options (under Settings & Options). Scroll down to Thread Display Options, about half way down. Tick the Show Images box.

I've only just figured this out - in fact reading your post made me go looking for it. My forum experience just got a whole lot better!

[Stustoys]

Thanks Bryan. As you say, a great improvment.
Stuart

[Dave J]

You can copy the URL of the fullsize image at the time of uploading them and insert into the post rather than the photobucket ones. After the image has been uploaded, just right click and copy from the list below the reply box then insert.

Hi DJ,
Not sure what you mean there, I do post them as a direct link in the message from photo bucket but if the account was to be closed for some reason the photos in the thread would be gone. Posting them as an attachment makes everybody have to click on them to see it full size, so I was only adding them as a backup to the photo bucket account.
Are you talking about up loading them from my computer to the forum server?
Not right up to speed on this and thought I had it mastered, LOL so any help would be appreciated :2tsup: if it makes it less work or keeps the photos up for good.

Dave

[Stustoys]

I think I get what he means Dave. I'll make a post to test it.
Stuart

p.s. I was wrong it didnt work

[DJ’s Timber]

Hi DJ,
Not sure what you mean there, I do post them as a direct link in the message from photo bucket but if the account was to be closed for some reason the photos in the thread would be gone. Posting them as an attachment makes everybody have to click on them to see it full size, so I was only adding them as a backup to the photo bucket account.
Are you talking about up loading them from my computer to the forum server?
Not right up to speed on this and thought I had it mastered, LOL so any help would be appreciated :2tsup: if it makes it less work or keeps the photos up for good.

Dave

I'll do a how to when I get back home on Sunday on my other computer.

[DJ’s Timber]

I think I get what he means Dave. I'll make a post to test it.
Stuart

p.s. I was wrong it didnt work

You need to insert the image using the http://cdn.woodworkforums.com/images/editor/insertimage.gif button for it to work

[Stustoys]

Got it DJ.
Thanks
Stuart

[Dave J]

Got it DJ.
Thanks
Stuart

Smart a** Stuart LOL
I am sure it will be easy when I know how, but I am still not sure how to do it.:?
Is it uploaded still to photo bucket? the forum? does it come out full size like the one's I posted above?
Thanks for your time on this DJ

Dave

[Stustoys]

As this is your thread Dave I guess OT is ok ;)
No photo bucket needed
When you write a post and "manage attachments", once you have uploaded the picture it shows up just above the "manage attachments" button. Right click on it and copy shortcut. press this
http://cdn.woodworkforums.com/images/editor/insertimage.gif
button at the top of the post window( on the same line as the bold button), paste the shortcut into the window that pops up.
Done.
Stuart

[Dave J]

I got it thanks Stuart.
The trouble I was having was I was highlighting it then copying it, instead of the right click.

Dave

[RayG]

Hi Dave,

Crossing over from the HM52 conversion thread....

Yes, I'm looking to replace the spindle bearings pretty much same as you have done, I haven't checked the amount of thread, but I'd like to see the dimensions of the parts you made.

The bearing spacer at the top of the spline is a nice improvement as well, so I'll do that one as well.

Your work on the HM52 is much appreciated, thanks again.

Regards
Ray

Edit the guy at the bearing place tells me that for the 6009-2RS the "2RS" means 2 rubber seals.. makes sense, what did you end up doing for seals?
Is it just the larger size nut enough or is there another seal?

[Dave J]

Hi Ray,
You must have missed the bit in the first post about that problem.Your bearing bloke is right about the seals.

"There was also the problem of the taper bearing not having rubber shields like the standard bearing so it would need a cover of some sort.
I thought about it a bit and could see that to get more thread engagement I could make a nut with a extended centre that goes down inside the bearing and be large enough to cover the whole bearing out to the edge of the quill."

With the quill up inside the head it is pretty well protected from dust etc, so as long as there is no grit on the head casting up in their it should be fine.

Will get the nut measurements posted up tomorrow for you as it was just made out of my head to suit.

The nylon has quietened it down even more, has anyone else finished theirs, Eskimo, Stuart?

I need to get posting as I found plastic spaces in between the the top bearing pulleys that I replaced, as well as other mods along the way.

With all the new bearing in, my mill runs really quiet now as a belt drive should.

Dave

[RayG]

Hi Dave,

I pulled down the spindle bearings, to see what I needed to do, and I have an idea that I would like your opinion on.

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/HM52UpperSpindlebearing.jpg

This is the top of the quill, where the spindle bearing goes, If I can get this into the lathe (that's a big if).
What about turning that bearing retaining lip down by a few mm to accommodate the thicker tapered bearing?

Regards
Ray

[Dave J]

Hi Ray,
It would work just as good but you will still need a large washer or something over the bearing to keep it covered.
I looked at doing mine that way, but the casting in mine tapered out pretty quick and would have only left half the width of bearing seat going down 4mm.
If you do go that way only go down 3mm so the nut/washer covering the bearing can still go close to the outside of the quill. If it only comes to the outer edge of the bearing you could get crap in it between the nut/washer and the inner part of the quill.

I have 2 steadies and it only just fitted in one of them with the fingers right out of their slots (another project larger steady) so I could have just done it in mine.

The inner of the taper bearing is the same height on the bottom so it sits on the spindle the same amount as the original one, it is just the top.

Dave

[Dave J]

Dimensions for the nut.
Ray have you worked out which way your going?

Dave

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153196&stc=1&d=1289824551

[RayG]

Hi Dave,

I'll make the new nut as per your drawings, the largest bar stock I have is 75mm, but I think I'll just get some 90mm bar stock. Always comes in handy.

I did the plastic spacer earlier tonight.

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/HM52SpindleMods.jpg

I'm going to replace the main pulley bearings with "Brand" name bearings while I've got it pulled down.

I've cleaned out all the "chicken fat" and I'm using that Molygrease Lithium stuff, what grease are you using.

Regards
Ray

[Dave J]

I went through all the bearing places trying to find an answer for grease. I finally found a guy that new what he was talking about,and recommended standard wheel bearing grease or equivalent because it only spins at 3000rpm.
I told him I had been recommended some number HT grease, and he said that it would be no good unless it was to hot to touch by hand.

I see you made the spacer, did you have problems as well with knocking or noises?
You will be happy with the results from it and the new bearings, while your their you may as well do the idler pulley ones as well.
I don't know what your idler pulley is like but mine swivels on the shaft so you don't have to undo the nut to adjust it, the first mill I had I had to undo the nut. It makes belt changes easier as you can pull the pulley either way and when you tighten it it centers itself.

I just made my nut out of plate to save cost, have you seen the price of 90mm bar? Going by Scott's online (a good source for prices) it is $148 mtr
Scott Metals - Products: Bars (http://www.scottmetals.com.au/bars.html)

Dave

[RayG]

Hi Dave,

Well, I got the mill back together. There was enough thread to temporarily re-fit the new bearings while I get the new nut made. I managed to get some 100x16 mild steel flat ($14 for 500mm), so I'll cut the new retaining nuts from that.

It sounds nice and smooth, just a gentle whirring noise. But I am seeing a faint vibration, the dial test indicator vibrates (maybe +-0.01mm) when I put it on the quill. Stops vibrating when I tighten the quill lock.

So, I'm about to pull the spindle down again and see if I can find the problem, any ideas what to look for?

Regards
Ray

[Dave J]

It sounds like the spindle spline is running on the plastic spacer giving you the vibration and then tightening it pulls it into line.
Does pulling the quill down far enough so the spine is out of the plastic spacer stop it?
I am sure you installed it properly but just check the top bearing is sitting square, as with the nut not on all the way maybe kicking it out a bit.

Dave

[RayG]

It sounds like the spindle spline is running on the plastic spacer giving you the vibration and then tightening it pulls it into line.
Does pulling the quill down far enough so the spine is out of the plastic spacer stop it?
I am sure you installed it properly but just check the top bearing is sitting square, as with the nut not on all the way maybe kicking it out a bit.

Dave

Hi Dave, You are right, the vibration is caused by run-out (0.04mm) on the top pulley and
that is being transmitted to the unlocked spindle by the plastic spacer. When I drop the quill down past the spacer it all but dissapears, and of course locking the quill stops it completely.

I checked the NSK pulley bearings to make sure they were running true, and they are spot on, so it's the machining on the pulley bearing support.

The spindle runs true with no run-out. That's the main game.

Here's another idea for you to think about, the quill moving when the quill lock is tightened, and I wonder if I could put a bearing running vertically (a bit like a linear bearing) to push the quill back and take up that slack.

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/HM52Quill.jpg

Drawn with the only program I'm "really" comfortable with... and cheap too! :D

Regards
Ray

[Dave J]

Hi Ray,
I thought you would have checked the bearings were right.
Did you setup the pulley shaft in the lathe running true with the bearing journals and bore the pulley shaft before fitting the plastic spacer? I did this and put it in my first post as I found a lot of runout in it.

Also when you put the pulley on for the final time, I found that running a dial indicator on the pulley, and trying different positions on the shaft got it running almost perfect.I was going to true the taper shaft up, but being a taper would make the pulley sit lower so this was a compromise.

Did you get your parcel in the post?

Dave

[RayG]

Hi Ray,

Did you get your parcel in the post?

Dave

Hi Dave,

Yes, arrived today! Thank you. :2tsup: I'll post that graduated ring in the next few days.

I'll try rotating the pulley to different orientations with respect to the taper. I'll let you know how it goes later tonight.

Regards
Ray

[RayG]

Hi Dave,

I can report success, with both of your modifications, the change from deep groove spindle bearings to tapered top and bottom.And the nylon sleeve on the spline. Much nicer feel and although I can't measure it, I think it sounds sweeter.

I got the vibration pretty well eliminated by gradually rotating the top pulley assembly with respect to the tapered top pulley bearing, and found a spot with minimal run-out.

Thanks for the help and posting the original upgrade ideas and methods. I can recommend the upgrade to anyone with a HM52.

Regards
Ray

[Dave J]

No problem Ray, thanks.
Good to hear it all worked out and your happy with it.

Dave

[eskimo]

Dave,
any reason why you didnt (or couldnt) use a 75 x 45 x 16 angular contact bearing in lieu of the taper roller?


pst...that way I wouldnt have to make a nut...hahaha

[Dave J]

Hi Eskimo,
If I used a angular contact bearing, I would want a pair and a spacer on both inside and outside to keep preload on them set, way to much trouble for minimal gain.
Guys with Industrial hobbies mills have tried angular contact bearings in their mills (which are set up like these mills) and found they didn't work well, so they went back to taper bearings.
I think if you contact Ray he might be able to help you out, if not give me a yell and I will make you one.

Dave

[RayG]

Hi Eskimo (aka the ice man)

I have made a couple, one has you name on it! I haven't machined the tabs or tapped the 4mm locking grub screws...

I made a threaded arbor from some al, and used that to mount the 15mm plate. I got a bit impulsive and ordered an M40x1.5 tap... then thought I really should sort out better internal threading tooling... and bought the mesa insert threading and grooving tooling (which looks pretty useful) so immediately regretted buying the tap (don't ask what it cost!) You do stupid things sometimes...

For a one off, I would have done what Dave did and just weld a temporary shaft.

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/BearingNut002.jpg

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/BearingNut001.jpg

Just for interests sake... the thread on the NT30 ER32 collet chuck is M40x1.5

Now I have to think of other jobs that require an M40x1.5 thread to justify the cost...

Maybe I can charge Eskimo....:D (just kidding)

Regards
Ray

[Dave J]

Hi Eskimo (aka the ice man)
Maybe I can charge Eskimo....:D (just kidding)
Regards
Ray

They have come up nice
I think your time and work is worth something Ray.
I am yet to send him the bill for the design,lol

I did think of making some to sell for around $30-$40 each, but after I worked it out with the material, time, etc it wouldn't be worth it.
A one off for a mate like Eskimo I don't mind doing cheap, but not for someone I don't know at all.

I am glad you guys are finding the mods helpful, it may take me hours and sometimes months on and off to work out designs like the head riser, but when I put up the drawings and plans I gives me pleasure seeing somebody else getting use out of them and makes it worth going to the trouble to post them.

My Grandfather always told me when growing up, that if someone copied my idea I should take it as a complement because they thought it was a good idea as well.

Dave

[eskimo]

I have made a couple, one has you name on it!



Thank You Very Much Ray

Dave...your Grand Dad was spot on

[eskimo]

I note that the chinese are not the only ones who use a deep groove ball bearing at the top of their spindle...even the the Arboga has them.........I refer to the spare parts list that gregoryq posted in neksmerj thread "Arboga EM825 Xmas Present"

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/arboga-em825-mill-christmas-present-128204/

[Stustoys]

In the Chinese defense, they probably don't know either and are putting their copy together mumbling "mad bloody Englishmen" :)

If it was a grinding spindle I could understand the deep groove as the only axial load would be the preload on the taper bearing. But with a mill there is the axial load from the helix on the cutter.

Maybe they know the deep groove on top will outlast the taper roller on the bottom.

I expect a report once you have worn the bearings out Dave.

Stuart

[eskimo]

I expect a report once you have worn the bearings out Dave.



am I going to be alive to be to read it

[Dave J]

I am not sure if having the deep groove top bearing is wrong, it just seemed strange to me to have side loading on it when tapers are designed for that situation and other mills had 2 taper bearings standard on their quills. I feel these mills got lost in between the big bench top mills and the full size knee mills and corners where cut to save costs.
I think it runs better with the taper top one, but I did fix a few things at the same time so it's hard to say what is dong what.
As for wearing the new SKF bearings out, being only a home shop I don't think I will be wearing them out, but then you never know.lol
Some trailers are still going on their original taper bearings after 30-40 years.

Dave

[Dave J]

Eskimo,
Did you end up fitting the tapered top bearing with the nut from Ray?

Dave

[RayG]

Hi Dave,

I suspect not, seeing as it's still on my bench...:D

Eskimo, PM me your address, and I'll send it.


Regards
Ray

[Dave J]

LOL
So that's why he never posted up about how it went.

Dave

[eskimo]

hahahaha

I was going to say when the email came in "I will let Ray tell you Dave"

and thanks Ray I always wondered if you ever finished it

PM sent

and thanks a million.....another one I owe..i'm never gunna get out of debt

[Dave J]

Let us know what you think after it's fitted.

Ray only took so long because he was perfecting the second one for you.

Dave

[eskimo]

"Let us know what you think after it's fitted." Will do Dave...but will be busy reloading and practicing for this week and then the serious comps start the week after...then its easter....so wont be till late April I reckon

"Ray only took so long because he was perfecting the second one for you."...YAHOO a 24 carat gold plated one...Yippee!

Ta guys

[RayG]

"Ray only took so long because he was perfecting the second one for you."...YAHOO a 24 carat gold plated one...Yippee!

Ta guys

Hi Eskimo,

I thought I was finished, now, I've got get the gold plating tank set up and going again... :D

Actually, I have to tap for the 4mm locking screws, maybe later today.


Regards
Ray

[eskimo]

the gold plating a tad too dear eh??...I'll take it as is :)

[Dave J]

And here I was thinking you where posting about doing the conversion. The gold plating sounds nice, maybe he hasn't had a chance to get into his wifes jewelry box.:D

Dave

[eskimo]

And here I was thinking you where posting about doing the conversion. The gold plating sounds nice, maybe he hasn't had a chance to get into his wifes jewelry box.:D

Dave

I cant get into my wife's jewelery safe either..only she knows the code...I reckon i'd die if I ever got into it....seeing all my hard earned $$$ in gold...

[cj2025]

I'm only posting to say thank you to everyone for your designs and for asking good questions and receiving helpful answers. I'm new to the world of machining but picked up a grizz lathe and mill from a retiring machinist. The TIR in the lathe is excellent but my g3616 could use some improvement. I'm going to take all of your suggestions and see how much I can improve things. Although with a baby on the way in the next few months it might be a bit slow going. Anyways thought it was pertinent to pay my respects to the sources. Thanks!

[eskimo]

I'm only posting to say thank you to everyone for your designs and for asking good questions and receiving helpful answers. I'm new to the world of machining but picked up a grizz lathe and mill from a retiring machinist. The TIR in the lathe is excellent but my g3616 could use some improvement. I'm going to take all of your suggestions and see how much I can improve things. Although with a baby on the way in the next few months it might be a bit slow going. Anyways thought it was pertinent to pay my respects to the sources. Thanks!

I understand that the taper roller bearing at the top works really well..or so I have been told.
I might get around to doing mine ...one day:rolleyes:

[Dave J]

Hi, and welcome to the forum.

Nice of you to join up and say thanks.:2tsup:

You are lucky to get one since Grizzly has discontinued both the 3616 and the 3617. I have US friends on other forums who are importing mills strait from China just to get one.

If you need help just ask, this is my 3rd mill after returning 2. I did some mods to the first one, but with this one I pulled it down to a column, and went right through it. I think Ray has been through some of his as well.
In the grizzly down feed the worm is only supported by bearings at the front, which lets the worm float a bit and gives a lot of back lash. I will post some mods I did up and you could copy the design of the ones sold over here by making an extension onto it, as theses ones are supported at both ends.
I also split the X and Y nuts to take out back lash in them.

You can add pictures of your lathe and mill in the threads below if you like
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/show-us-your-lathe-121627/

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/show-us-your-mill-121568/

Eskimo, haven't you done that yet? LOL

Dave

[morrisman]

Do any of these mods apply to the DM 45 ? The taper bearing mod and the quill feed .

Mine has a nasty habit of dropping the quill about 3mm after you release the lock and attempt to move the quill downwards with either the fine feed wheel or the lever. It didn't bother me initially but it can be a pain when it does it if you are in the middle of milling a piece.

It is fixable I would think .

MIKE

[Dave J]

Hi Mike,
You would have to check but I think your mill comes with 2 tapered bearing already, but my type of mill doesn't.

For the down feed you would have to have a look inside it. Mine has a bearing on both the front and th back f the housing to support it. Another member on a different forum showed his Grizzly one and it only has bearings at the front. which allows the worm to move off the gear a bit with the leverage.

If you find slop in the main down feed rack, you have 2 options either put a spring from the quill to the head, or make up some eccentric bushes for the shaft the gear rides on so the gear can be adjusted onto the quill more.

I have a lot of pictures on my computer showing this, so I will post them latter.

Dave

[morrisman]

Hi Mike,
You would have to check but I think your mill comes with 2 tapered bearing already, but my type of mill doesn't.

For the down feed you would have to have a look inside it. Mine has a bearing on both the front and th back f the housing to support it. Another member on a different forum showed his Grizzly one and it only has bearings at the front. which allows the worm to move off the gear a bit with the leverage.

If you find slop in the main down feed rack, you have 2 options either put a spring from the quill to the head, or make up some eccentric bushes for the shaft the gear rides on so the gear can be adjusted onto the quill more.

I have a lot of pictures on my computer showing this, so I will post them latter.

Dave

Thanks for that Dave

Looking at the top bearing , it is visible and it apperas to be a normal single row deep groove bearing , but I may be wrong .

Anyway, others on this forum have the same machine , so they will know more .

MIKE

[Dave J]

Hi Mike,
I did extensive research before doing mine, and am only going off all the guys on CNC zone and many others as theirs all come with a tapered bearing top one, but a lot of them are CNCing them and changing over to angular contact bearings, though they say there is not much difference.
Here is one link showing it, it may help you out in other areas as well
Round Column Mill Drill Spindle Quill Removal Procedure! Harbor Freight 8x12 and Sieg X2 Mini Mill, DRO, CNC Conversion Plans, Machining/Metalworking How-tos and Resources (http://www.fignoggle.com/machines/round-column-mill-drills/round-column-mill-drill-spindle-quill-removal-procedure.htm)

Dave

[morrisman]

Pic

a circlip is visible ............... not sure what it is

[Dave J]

That one is a plain bearing, but is not the quill bearing. That one just supports the drive hub that drives the spindle by the look of it.
When you move the quill up and down does the spindle splines slide though it, if so it's not the quill bearing.

Dave

[Dave J]

Just to add, you will have to drop the quill out to see the top bearing.

Dave

[morrisman]

That one is a plain bearing, but is not the quill bearing. That one just supports the drive hub that drives the spindle by the look of it.

When you move the quill up and down does the spindle splines slide though it, if so it's not the quill bearing.

Dave

Yes you are correct , the splines slide up/down through it ...:2tsup::2tsup:

[Dave J]

I would say yours are tapered bearing both ends, as all the ones I have seen are. It only takes 5 minutes to take the quill out of the machine and inspect it. It would probably be a good idea to take it apart and give it a clean and preset the bearing preload yourself, as I wouldn't trust how the Chinese have done it.

If you do this you can then get the bearing numbers and store them away for latter if you need them, that way there is no down time chasing bearings. To replace them with SKF it will only cost you around $50 for the pair.

I did a right up on the forum for removing the quill, yours will be very similar to mine, so if you want I can chase it up for you.

Dave

[morrisman]

I would say yours are tapered bearing both ends, as all the ones I have seen are. It only takes 5 minutes to take the quill out of the machine and inspect it. It would probably be a good idea to take it apart and give it a clean and preset the bearing preload yourself, as I wouldn't trust how the Chinese have done it.

If you do this you can then get the bearing numbers and store them away for latter if you need them, that way there is no down time chasing bearings. To replace them with SKF it will only cost you around $50 for the pair.

I did a right up on the forum for removing the quill, yours will be very similar to mine, so if you want I can chase it up for you.

Dave

Roger that ... that would be handy to know .

They have packed some grease around the bearing pictured ... I'm not sure what grade of grease it is . But, yes it would be worthwhile repacking the bearing with wheel bearing grease of good quality .. Do the tapered spindle bearings run in the oil inside the gear box ?

I am rather gentle with the machine , I don't stress it as I want it to last. MIKE

[Dave J]

You will find the oil in the gearbox is totally separate from the quill. The quill will have grease in it and when I rang the bearing places (after ringing ever tech line) eventually told me that if you could place your hand on the bearing while running just use wheel bearing grease.

Below is a picture showing inside your head with the covers off. There is a wall between the quill and gear box. So the quill is totally separate and you will have no oil coming out if you remove it.

Dave

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196388&stc=1&d=1327731267

[simonl]

Hi Dave!

First of all, congratulations on another well thought out and executed project. You are an inspiration, especially to new, less experienced people like myself.

Thanks!

I must concur about the 45 size mills from my experience, my mill has tapered roller bearings top and bottom. The user manual states 7208 and 7206 tapered roller bearings. Having said that, I would not order new bearings based on that alone. The Chinese tend to make slight alterations in their products without updating the manual from time to time! I would still pull them out and eyeball them.

The bearings are greased and kept separate from the oil bath by way of a double oil seal that can just be seen from the top where the drawbar tightening nut is.

One question, did you not put precision bearings in ie one with a P6, P5 etc? I don't understand why lathe spindle bearings are precision bearings (mine had P5 and P6) but mill bearings tend to just be standard automotive bearings. Can you or someone else explain why? Surely the run out of the bearings and therefore the spindle is just as important?

PS I think my mill only has standard bearings too. Cheap as chips compared to my lathe!

Cheers,

Simon

[Dave J]

Hi Simon,
Thanks for that :2tsup:, I did a lot of research and planning for this and it ended up turning out as planned. As you have probably read Ray changed his bearing over as well and said he is happy with the change as well.

With the bearing, I think we are to low of class with our machines to get good grade bearings. I did price around for high grade bearings for mine but they where $800 odd dollars for my 4 (horizontal and vertical spindle) and needed to be ordered from overseas as no one carried them here. I decided to leave them at that price and just fitted standard new SKF quality bearing back in. I use all Chinese and Taiwanese tooling so it probably has more run out than the bearings have, so you need to think about that.

Thanks for clearing that up about the tapered bearing, every mill I have seen in that size has tapered top and bottom, but you never know they could change, my size mill missed out for some reason.
I found all my bearing numbers to be true to the manual, but I had to go online and convert the Chinese part numbers over to our standards. If you type in your bearing number it will show you the number from different manufactures. I have the link here somewhere if you want it let me know and I will chase it up.

When greasing quill bearing, only fill the free air space in them 1/3 with grease, they are not like wheel bearing where you fill them right up.

Dave

[cj2025]

Thanks for the warm welcome Dave. I'm tied up Saturday but will have time Sunday to post pics of my mill and lathe. I'll focus on the mill first as my lathe and 4 Jaw seem to be capable of holding acceptable tolerances. I'll probably just break down the head assembly. Maybe the most challenging part will be threading the M40 1.5 nut that you made. I'll also have to ask my buddy to weld in a piece of round stock as I have no TIG or MIG. I will definitely have questions about that operation, i.e. did you use an full profile insert or single point, # of passes, helical angle, etc? But that's all getting ahead of myself. I'll start slow and work up from there posting and pics that might be helpful. Anyways thanks again and I'm excited to jump into the world of metalworking!

[eskimo]

Eskimo, haven't you done that yet? LOL

Dave

nope ...not yet .....I guess he has been sick or something:D:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[.RC.]

One question, did you not put precision bearings in ie one with a P6, P5 etc? I don't understand why lathe spindle bearings are precision bearings (mine had P5 and P6) but mill bearings tend to just be standard automotive bearings. Can you or someone else explain why? Surely the run out of the bearings and therefore the spindle is just as important?


All comes back to the quality of the build... From my experience it is only the more expensive machines that get the precision bearings...

My Turret mill, a bridgeport clone was only fitted with standard off the shelf SKF angular contact bearings... I have modified them to improve them a bit though..

[simonl]

All comes back to the quality of the build... From my experience it is only the more expensive machines that get the precision bearings...

My Turret mill, a bridgeport clone was only fitted with standard off the shelf SKF angular contact bearings... I have modified them to improve them a bit though..

Thanks. If it's good enough for a Bridgeport clone then it's good enough for my 45 size Chinese mill too!

Hi Dave, thanks for the reply. I understand where you're coming from.

Cheers,

Simon

[simonl]

196556Well, I had a spare moment and curiosity got the better of me so I removed my quill to take a closer look. Discovered two things:

As I said earlier, I don't fully trust Chinese owner manuals! The owners manual states that the quill has two tapered roller bearings, a 7206 and a 7208. When I took it apart I found the following bearings:

A 30206 and a 30208 tapered roller bearing. Both are a P6 precision tolerance. Yea I know, Chinese precision is very questionable!

I don't know what the differences are between and 30206 and a 7206 or a 30208 and a 7208.

Same same for my lathe. the bearing list stated a 7211 and a 7212 bearing but when I looked at them it had a 30211 and a 30212 tapered roller bearings.

I just going to clean them up real nice and repack with good grease. The outer bearing race on the bottom quill bearing sits inside the quill. You can't knock, press or drift it out so I have no idea how you would remove it to replace with a new bearing. Only thing I could think of would be to split it with a cold chisel and remove it destructively. Not something I would be keen on.

Pics attached show the two bearings and the bottom of the quill where you can see the outer bearing race inside the quill...

Simon

[.RC.]

196556

A 30206 and a 30208 tapered roller bearing. Both are a P6 precision tolerance. Yea I know, Chinese precision is very questionable!


Especially when there is no such thing as a p6 precision tapered roller bearings....

Tapered rollers use a different lettering system for bearing class... Imperial use the Timken system of 4,2,3,0,00,000

while metric use the letters K, N, C, B, A, AA

Also remember the lower the P number with ball bearings the higher the accuracy.... With ABEC it is the opposite with super precisions like ABEC9 is about equivalent to a P2...

ABEC 5 and P5 are about the same...

[morrisman]

Interesting and informative

So what is the prefered method for removing the DM 45 quill ? The attachment doesn't open :rolleyes:

You might get that bearing cup out with a slide hammer , if there is enough room to get behind it that is.

Mike

[jhovel]

To remove a bearing cone in an inaccessible place (like this one or worse - bottomed in a blind bore), just run a bead of Mig or stick weld around the minddle of the roller track and let it cool down. The bearing part will just fall out. The weld shrinks it quite a bit. Obviously this is destructive but does no harm to the shape of the mounting bore, whereas hitting it with a chisel and hammer may deform the mounting bore.
Joe

[Dave J]

196556Well, I had a spare moment and curiosity got the better of me so I removed my quill to take a closer look. Discovered two things:

As I said earlier, I don't fully trust Chinese owner manuals! The owners manual states that the quill has two tapered roller bearings, a 7206 and a 7208. When I took it apart I found the following bearings:

A 30206 and a 30208 tapered roller bearing. Both are a P6 precision tolerance. Yea I know, Chinese precision is very questionable!

I don't know what the differences are between and 30206 and a 7206 or a 30208 and a 7208.

Same same for my lathe. the bearing list stated a 7211 and a 7212 bearing but when I looked at them it had a 30211 and a 30212 tapered roller bearings.

I just going to clean them up real nice and repack with good grease. The outer bearing race on the bottom quill bearing sits inside the quill. You can't knock, press or drift it out so I have no idea how you would remove it to replace with a new bearing. Only thing I could think of would be to split it with a cold chisel and remove it destructively. Not something I would be keen on.

Pics attached show the two bearings and the bottom of the quill where you can see the outer bearing race inside the quill...

Simon


I will look it up but I think you will find those are Chinese part number and standard numbers as the Chinese numbers on mine are totally different as well, but are the same bearing.

My quill is set up like that, so I bent a piece of 12mm round bar slightly at the end to go around the corner and ground the end to suit. I also have a slide hammer here but couldn't be bothered making an end up as I didn't have the right one to suit.

Dave

[Dave J]

Hi Simon,
A 7206 is a 30206 and the same with the other one. The 7206 is the old Chinese number.

Chinese New Part Number:32010,Chinese Old Part Number:2007110E,FAG:32010X,KOYO:32010JR,NACHI:E32010J,NSK:HR 32010 XJ,NTN:ET-32010X,SKF:32010 X,SNR:32010VC12,STEYR:32010X,TIMKEN:32010X,ZKL:32010X, (http://bearings.ttzcw.com/enmcollate/36fbd98158ce20ec.html)

That is the site I was talking about earlier, and you just put your bearing number in at the top and click on "click here to obtain details" and it will show you the equivalent new/old Chinese bearings and on most the equivalent brands with there numbers.

Dave

[.RC.]

Hi Simon,
A 7206 is a 30206 and the same with the other one.


A 7206 is an angular contact ball bearing....

[Dave J]

Thanks for the warm welcome Dave. I'm tied up Saturday but will have time Sunday to post pics of my mill and lathe. I'll focus on the mill first as my lathe and 4 Jaw seem to be capable of holding acceptable tolerances. I'll probably just break down the head assembly. Maybe the most challenging part will be threading the M40 1.5 nut that you made. I'll also have to ask my buddy to weld in a piece of round stock as I have no TIG or MIG. I will definitely have questions about that operation, i.e. did you use an full profile insert or single point, # of passes, helical angle, etc? But that's all getting ahead of myself. I'll start slow and work up from there posting and pics that might be helpful. Anyways thanks again and I'm excited to jump into the world of metalworking!

No problem, just take your time, your on a steep learning curve. LOL
You will find a great bunch of guys here willing to help you out with any questions and problems.

With the thread it's really not hard, but I recommend trying it on scrap (old pipe) or cutting a thread in the nut under size before you bore it out to the right size. It is only a fine thread so you don't even need to set your compound at an angle if you don't want to (I didn't)
The tool needed is just a piece of HSS ground with a 60 degree V and no other grinding like rake etc, so easy to make.

I will get up photos of the down feed insides as I have pictures of both the grizzly one and mine. You might be able to press fit the piece in first and then machine it in place on th worm instead of welding. A bit of locktite or grub screw could also help hold it in.

Dave

[Dave J]

A 7206 is an angular contact ball bearing....

Your right, I think I typed in 7206 instead of 30206.
7206 is the old Chinese part number for the 30206 as can be seen in the link below.
http://bearings.ttzcw.com/enmcollate/580af8dacd7d788b.html

If anyone can make it all confusing it's the Chinese, LOL

Dave

PS
I will fix the link above for future reference and to save confusion

[simonl]

Hi Dave, Joe, Mike and Rc,

Thanks for the information. It makes a little more sense. I have spent some time studying the quill and have made some more observations. The outer race of the lower tapered bearing (30208) can be punched out as there are two small holes on the top side of the bottom quill. The holes allow access using a small punch to drift out the race so not as difficult as first suggested. It's amazing what you can learn just by taking your time to study parts!

Attached is a pic of the quill. You can clearly see the two holes at opposite sides of the quill base.

Second pic looking into the quill base and the bottom outer race. Overall the 45 size mill is a fairly straight forward machine to work on.

Cheers,

Simon

[Dave J]

At least they thought to give you some hole for getting them out.

While I was in there I painted the inside of the quill so no rubbish would fall down into the bearings. I ran a wire wheel on a hand drill up and down the bore to clean it up first. A standard wire wheel wont reach so I used a spade bit extension between the wire wheel and drill to reach. If you don't have one you could easily make something on the lathe out of a piece of scrap 1/2 inch rod.

Dave
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196629&stc=1&d=1327827210

[simonl]

At least they thought to give you some hole for getting them out.

While I was in there I painted the inside of the quill so no rubbish would fall down into the bearings. I ran a wire wheel on a hand drill up and down the bore to clean it up first. A standard wire wheel wont reach so I used a spade bit extension between the wire wheel and drill to reach. If you don't have one you could easily make something on the lathe out of a piece of scrap 1/2 inch rod.

Dave
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196629&stc=1&d=1327827210

I wouldn't expect anything less of you Dave!

Hey while on the discussion of bearings. If anyone has been looking for a specific type of bearing or specific tolerance that they can't find here, give this crowd a go. Motion Industries - Keeping Industry in Motion (http://www.motionindustries.com/motion3/jsp/mii/index.html) they are in the US and they stock a huge range and their search function makes it easy to see what they have and if it's in stock. They also give a very competitive rates on shipping to Aus. I have bought a couple of bearings from them.

They also sell a generic brand called "Consolidated Bearing" these seem to be the cheapest of the good quality bearings. They are just repackaged FAG, SKF, NTN etc and sell them as Consolidated Bearings.

I bought a 30212 P5 from them for my lathe and it cost me about $200 delivered. When I opened the package, it was an FAG bearing made in Austria. The same bearing, same brand, same tolerance here would have cost me $450.

In hindsight I probably didn't need to buy such an extravagant bearing but at the time I just replaced the type and tolerance that was in there. Just not a Chinese one.....

Oh well there're in their now. I make sure I look after the headstock oil really well so they should never need replacing....

:fingerscrossed:

[Dave J]

Thanks for the link on the bearings and the feed back as a customer, will store it away for future use.

With my quill I was going to bore it out to clean it up before painting, LOL but thought that was going overboard and would take away precise material/strength anyway,

Dave

[simonl]

Hi Dave,

OK you got me thinking so I took the quill COMPLETELY apart, as in I drafted out the bearing races as well (using the barely useable proprietary provided drift holes) and have a look at what I found. Nothing really surprising for a Chinese machine but a lot of casting crud under the bearing seat. Why do all Chinese bearing seats look like they have been machined with a piece of fencing wire?

Anyway, running my finger down the inside bore of the quill felt very rough (as you would expect) but upon removing my finger I found a combination of casting crud and flakes/particles of CI.

Now I know why you hit yours with a wire brush and painted. Think I will do the same whiles it's out. Why not, doesn't cost anything and at least you know it's nice in there with nothing dislodging onto the bearings.

Pic attached of the quill end and bearing seat. Just for your amusement...

[Dave J]

While your your have it apart it's a good idea to paint it.
I tried looking for a picture of mine without the bearing to show how mine was machined where the side of the bearing seats, but I cant find one. On mine they did a good job or I would have just faced it off.

What you getting out of the quill is casting sand which is black. Mine had a thin coat of yellow on it but was coming off in spots, and was only painted to the casting sand.

Dave

[simonl]

While your your have it apart it's a good idea to paint it.
I tried looking for a picture of mine without the bearing to show how mine was machined where the side of the bearing seats, but I cant find one. On mine they did a good job or I would have just faced it off.

What you getting out of the quill is casting sand which is black. Mine had a thin coat of yellow on it but was coming off in spots, and was only painted to the casting sand.

Dave

I had thought of re-facing the bearing seat but I would have to be pretty darn certain that it was hold properly in the lathe. Would you use a combination of 4 jaw and the fixed steady and a DTI to assure it was spot on DC before machining?

As for the casting sand, I am too too used to removing that stuff from my machines! While not as good as a wire brush, even degreaser and a pressure washer gets a lot of it off.

[Dave J]

I used the air needle scaler on the knee and other castings.

It's up to you if you feel confident machining it, but what you said is the way I would go about it. Your only machining the bottom so the set up is not that critical, but you would need to be pretty close.

Dave

[simonl]

Thanks dave.

In terms of setting up to machine the bottom bearing seat, the main constraint would be to ensure the quill runs concentric and that the machined seat is as close as perpendicular to the outer quill machined part that slides in and out of the mill head. Yes?

[Dave J]

Thats right, if you look at it now it's already pretty bad in that respect. You only need to get it square to the quill, and the bearing have a slight radius on them so they don't go right into the corner.

Don't forget to put some sort of protection between the 4 jaws and the quill when you put it in.
I would get the steady mounted on the lathe to the left of the carriage with it open and plenty of clearance for the fingers.
Then mount the quill in the 4 jaw and true it up both ends (chuck end first).
Once you do that bring the fingers in gently against the quill. Don't forget to oil it up before starting the lathe. It should only need low speed so it shouldn't mark the quill, but if your worried about it, wrap a piece of emery (worn out is fine) around the job first with the emery side outward. The 2 ends of the emery get clamped between the join in the steady.This will give the finger contact a wider bearing area and less likely to mark it up.

Dave

[Dave J]

Something I didn't mention above, is if you have a pipe centre large enough you can use it to help hold it in place while you set it up. Then once you get the chuck end dialed in, move the centre away.

Dave

[simonl]

I will have a go at setting it up. No harm or damage done by having a go at that. As for cleaning up the inside, your's must be bigger than mine cause I can't fit even the smallest wire attachment (80mm) inside. Looking at other methods. Thinking of cutting up a heap of chux scourers and stacking them together with a washer and bolt each side to make a big chux cylindrical scourer for a drill!

Simon

[cj2025]

So I posted pics of my mill and lathe in the links you provided Dave. I was also looking into the SKF bearings for replacements as you mentioned you replaced all your bearings with SKF. I then did some research using the Chinese New Part Number link you provided and wanted to run this info by you. I actually have the original manual that came with my lathe, including all the tolerance testing and parts lists, etc. I went ahead and threw the information for the bearings into a document that I'm posting below. The first description I list is from my manual, the second is from the Chinese New Part Number website and the third would be the replacement from SKF. I also wanted to ask if you did anything with the middle wheel bearings? Thanks again.

Spindle and Belt Pulley - Spindle Dust Defence Radial Ball Bearing – 60109/P6 – 2ea
Spindle Sleeve – Single Dust Defence Radial Ball Bearing – 60109/P6 – 1ea
Chinese New Part Number = 6009-Z, Bore = 45, OD = 75, Thick = 16, Deep Grooved Ball Bearing
SKF = 32009 X/Q, Bore = 45, OD = 75, Thick = 20, Tapered Roller Bearing


Spindle Sleeve – Single Tapered Roller Bearings – 2007110/P6 – 1ea
Chinese New Part Number = 32010, Bore = 50, OD = 80, Thick = 20, Tapered Roller Bearing
SKF = 32010 X/Q, Bore = 50, OD = 80, Thick = 20, Tapered Roller Bearing


Middle Wheel – Single Dust Defense Radial Ball Bearing – 60103 – 2ea
Chinese New Part Number = 6003-Z, Bore = 17, OD = 35, Thick = 10, Deep Grooved Ball Bearing
SKF = Not Found, I could check around NSK and FAG but wanted to know if you even bothered with these bearings


Thanks again,:U
-cj

[Dave J]

Hi CJ,
Sorry for the delay, I have been running all over the place finding bearing numbers as it's been a while and I thought I had done a list of bearings, but just looked and I haven't so here is the bearing list.
If you shop around over there you will get some good deals on bearings. My lot cost around $200 for the horizontal as well so yours should be under $100.

I replaced the the idler pulley (middle wheel in manual) bearings as they where the ones that where annoying me at first, and then that made me want to go through them all, LOL
I also did the down feed bearings because they never felt right. When I pulled them apart they had indents in the races from the balls. How this happened I don't know as it's not under a lot of pressure and makes me think they might have been used bearing installed, as the bearing was a fit sliding fit and it would not have needed to by hit in with a hammer to cause that sort of damage. They also had rust on them.
The picture is below, it was hard to get a good picture with the shine, but you can see one indentation at the top on the far side.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196879&stc=1&d=1327988660

Another member here had to change his idler pulley bearing right away so it was done under warranty, though he had to fit them himself. I would have done it under warranty as well, but after all the trouble I had been through, and this being my 3rd mill from them, I had had enough of them, so just did it all out of my own pocket.


The bearing numbers for mine line up with the Grizzly manual, speaking of the Grizzly manual if you haven't got a online copy I would grab it soon as the machines are discontinued and may disappear any day.

Spindle pulley 60109 ---------------------------------SKF 6009-2RS1 x 2
(spindle sleeve) Quill top 60109 - ( Replaced with) -----SKF 32009-X/Q x 1
(spindle sleeve) Quill bottom 2007110 -----------------SKF 32010-X/Q x 1
(middle wheel) Idler pulley 60103 ----------------------SKF 6003-2RSH x 2

With the bearing below you might need to check yours as it might be different with it only being supported at the front, but probably not.
Fine down feed ---------------------------------------SKF - 6002-2RSH x 2

Dave

[simonl]

Hi Dave,

well I had a go at setting up the quill body in the lathe to re-face the bearing seat. Ha! My fixed steady was not quite big enough. So I guess the decision has been made for me. Have cleaned up the inside bore - I finally found a wire cleaning disc small enough to fit. It has come up OK and in fact the bearing seat is not as bad as first thought.

I also have painted the inside (Dam you and your painting ideas!) with standard boring grey paint - no fancy colours here bud!

Pic shows what the bearing seat looks like now it clean and bore painted..

Cheers,

Simon

[Dave J]

Nice job, what a difference, :2tsup:
Your right that bearing seat looks fine, the other picture made it look as if it was as cast.
I ran into the same problem with my steady being to small. I have 2 steadies here and found my one that came with the lathe to be slightly bigger than the Hare & Forbes one I picked up on ebay. Still it was not big enough so I have plans for a home made one.

With my red paint I scored a can for $15 at the renovators shop so thats why I used it. My grey for my boxes only came along when we did the kitchen (don't tell the wife, LOL)
Where the red started on the knee castings was because I had it left over from my truck and it was just sitting for years and would have gone off. Still the red looks flash, LOL

Dave




Hi Dave,

well I had a go at setting up the quill body in the lathe to re-face the bearing seat. Ha! My fixed steady was not quite big enough. So I guess the decision has been made for me. Have cleaned up the inside bore - I finally found a wire cleaning disc small enough to fit. It has come up OK and in fact the bearing seat is not as bad as first thought.

I also have painted the inside (Dam you and your painting ideas!) with standard boring grey paint - no fancy colours here bud!

Pic shows what the bearing seat looks like now it clean and bore painted..

Cheers,

Simon

[Dave J]

Hi CJ, I have all the info together finally, LOL. Simon this might interest you as yours might be like the Grizzly set up.

This is how the Grizzly mill comes with no rear bearing on the fine down feed. Just looking, now the grizzly one has a thinner casting at the rear which means it would need a bearing carrier made up to be pressed and/or bolted to the casting.
This was posted by Jack over on the Chaski board and was his fix to keep the worm engaged with the gear to take out backlash.
The Home Machinist! • View topic - And - - The beat goes on - -G6760 Milling Machine (http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=80963&hilit=down+feed&start=60)

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196909&stc=1&d=1328000162

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196910&stc=1&d=1328000162

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196911&stc=1&d=1328000162

Something like this could be made up as a bearing carrier for the Grizzly or other mills that only have a front bearing factory fitted.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196912&stc=1&d=1328000162

Dave

[cj2025]

Hmm I did notice excessive backlash in the fine feed and I I don't have the downfeed DRO setup so it does take some feel to get the feed just right, although I haven't mastered that feel as of yet :D. I think your idea of a rear bearing carrier would be great. If I have time to get everything else apart and laid out this weekend I will report back with photos and measurements. Although with a pregnant wife at home, getting the recess lighting and speaker cans in will most likely be the priority :cool:. And again thanks for the bearing pics and info, I actually already have original and electronic manuals for my machines, the guy that sold it to me really took care of everything and bundled a bunch of tooling, etc. with my purchase. My machinist buddy who was with me told me I got a once in a lifetime deal. I paid a third of what they are worth and got a bunch of tooling and a Kurt vise to boot:2tsup:. Will report back soon!
-cj

[simonl]

I Dave,

Thanks for the info on the fine feed. My mill suffers with this problem as it seems they all do in this class of machine.

I always thought/assumed the the major source of the backlash was where the quill rack mates with the pinion, not from flex in the worm and gear.

I agree that the canter levered set up with the bearings at front and nothing at the back is a little wanting. and, these bearings do not even contain a thrust bearing as I thought should be the case.

I was wondering if anyone had actually extended the shaft to attach a rear bearing. Not easy I know as the cast assembly does not really allow for such a modification easily.

The bronze/brass half bush seems to be a simple solution that that problem.

Will look at putting the quill back together later today after I give it another coat of paint. It seems a shame to put the Chinese bearings back in, my local bearing supplier has quoted me $50 for the two bearings. He only stocks NTN. These are made in Japan, but are they as good as say SKF, Timken etc?

Cheers,

Simon

[Dave J]

Hi Simon and CJ,
Sorry to leave it halfway through, I tried uploading all this twice last night but the server went down, so I gave up.

I did all this last year so I am a bit rusty on remembering everything, so if I have left something out just let me know.

Here is a picture of mine and as you can see the rear bearing has very little support and came from the factory fitted with a piece of scrap shim to jamb the bearing in tight.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196965&stc=1&d=1328051009

This is a drawing to help describe it better. I made up a spacer for the front to move the worm and rear bearing back, which then meant I had to remove the read plug and machine it down. The plug had a taper pin to lock it in and the hole had broken though in parts so it really needed doing anyway.The rear bearing was only in the housing a few mm.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196966&stc=1&d=1328051009

This is the casting as it came off, rough so say the least.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196967&stc=1&d=1328051009

This one shows the down fee stop pin hole. It was always at an angle and now I know why, who ever drilled it (probably by hand) missed the inner casting.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196968&stc=1&d=1328051009

Cleaned up and painted, not sure whey the enamel paint reacted.I just used a die grinder to clean it up.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196969&stc=1&d=1328051009

I plugged the old hole with a grub screw, then drilled it in a new location so it has plenty of support from the cast behind it..

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196970&stc=1&d=1328051009

It looks like the really skimp on cast over there. I would say this part was cast not much bigger than it is.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196971&stc=1&d=1328051009

The vertical hole is the old taper pin, I tapped one of the taper pin holes (the bottom hole in this picture) and drilled/tapped 2 new ones at angles to hold the read plug in since it is now to thin for a taper pin.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196972&stc=1&d=1328051009

grub screws and machined down rear plug.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196973&stc=1&d=1328051009

Worm shaft showing the new spacer added.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196974&stc=1&d=1328052400

Dave