Who's got a Sand Blasting Cabinet?

[Sterob]

I saw these in the H&F sale catalogue and am thinking of getting one.( about $330 or the next model up for $870)
My compressor is only 12cfm but there are a couple of models that should suit.

I was just wondering if you thought integral dust extraction is desirable or is it not needed.
Who has the best deal? There are couple of Ebay that seem to be the same as what H&F sell, but alot cheaper.
I will be blast motor bike bits mainly.

Sterob

[Stustoys]

Hi Sterob
I have one I made myself. I have a 14cfm compresser and it can't keep up really(and thats an old 14cfm(the new cfms seem to be much smaller :wink:). So you start and stop to let the pressure build back up a little. I've read that you don't want to cycle the compressor motor to many times an hour as the motor isnt rated for so many starts although I haven't ever had a problem. Some people have an "on override" switch to run the compressor 100% of the time and just let the tank pressure valve vent. As for dust extraction, unless you are going to use it outside its more than desirable. Without it the ones I have seen tend to leak out everywhere. You might be able to make your own if you have a vac in your shed. Also you might be surprised how big a box you need. You need to be able to turn the parts around inside the box so you can get at all sides. Like you I think the ones on ebay look pretty much the same as H&F.
You're talking about something like this?
SANDBLASTER SANDBLAST BENCHTOP CABINET SAND BLASTER NEW (eBay item 400170731281 end time 14-Nov-10 11:10:24 AEDST) : Industrial (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SANDBLASTER-SANDBLAST-BENCHTOP-CABINET-SAND-BLASTER-NEW-/400170731281?pt=AU_Hardware&hash=item5d2c08c711)

Stuart

[Dave J]

Dust extraction will be needed weather you want to add it your self or buy it on the unit. You don't say the price range your looking at? If it's the SB200 one at $319 or the SB375 one at $869 one, $550 is a lot to pay for the extraction and would buy a lot of other tools.
The SB375 is only 105 mm longer 90mm wider and 20-30mm higher.
I am not sure of the vacuum system in that unit, but in the Dust Extraction part of this forum there are plenty of cyclonic plans to build one easily and it could be hooked up to your shop vac or any old vacuum for that matter.
DUST EXTRACTION - Woodwork Forums (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f200/)

Since you don't have many projects going,LOL I really do think you should make one like this and be done with it, LOL
DAVE PROPST ARTICLES - Blast Cabinet Part 1 (http://davepropst.com/Article/Art5/Article5.htm)

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=152380&stc=1&d=1289139373

Dave

[Sterob]

Sorry guys. I added the prices in an edit but it didn't come through...operator error.
Dave is onto it, it was the SB-200( $319) or the SB-375 ($869).

Yeah, as if I haven't got enough to do ...lol

[Dave J]

My pick would be the SB-200( $319) or equivalent off ebay etc, other than the colour maybe, they are all the same and probably came out of the same factory in china anyway.

I have yet to make mine, I have had a hand held one for 10 or so years and it works good. I got desperate for some little parts to be done in winter when I couldn't do it outside, so I used a cardboard box with some clear plastic as a makeshift one, it did the job and was disposable.
I have 3, 8x4 sheets of 2mm sheet here to make one, but if I make it I haven't got any room to put it.

Dave

[eskimo]

what do you guys use for grit?
not supposed to use sand...ARE YOU!!

[Stustoys]

Unless you can get a much better price on the SB-375, I'm with Dave, get the SB-200 and build your own extractor. I'd start with a large shop vac and improve on it only if you find the need and then you'll have a shop vac.

Yeah I have that problem to Dave, I have one but really don't use it often enough for the space it takes. It wouldn't be to hard to make the top part fold down, but you're stuck with the bottom part unless you want to unload the sand and if I had to set it up before I used it I would use it even less. You could mount one "in a wall" if you have the room outside?

Yes eskimo I use sand. Yes, don't beathe the stuff. But I wouldn't breathe the other stuff either.
Stuart

[Plushy]

Hi Sterob ,
I have a Chinese Cabinet exactly like the one you posted the photo of . And i have a 14CFM air compressor and i have the same problem as Stustoys the compressor cant keep the air up to the blaster fast enough . I use a cheap GMC shop vac for Dust extraction and after i put mine together i used caulking to seal up all the panel joint on the cabinet as the rubber strip you get with the cabinet does stuff all to stop dust pouring out everywhere . I only use Glass bead or Garnet sand in my blaster , I am keen to try crushed walnut shell but cant find a local supply of it yet.

James

[Stustoys]

Plushy Dust coming out suggests your vac isn't big enough. I haven't seen inside a SB-200 for a long time. Maybe you could add a large car air filter as a vent to let air in when you aren't sand blasting(this may help the vac clear the dust faster when you stop) and let the air out when you are sandblasting(so there is less pressure to force dust out the places you don't want it going).
Of course it may already have one, but I know the SB-100 had a tiny little filter on it.
Stuart

[Sterob]

Unless you can get a much better price on the SB-375, I'm with Dave, get the SB-200 and build your own extractor. I'd start with a large shop vac and improve on it only if you find the need and then you'll have a shop vac.

Stuart


Yes, it would be nice to have it all in one nice compact (ish) unit and not have to run an exterior vac or extractor but the price is a big leap just for that.......
I doubt I'd be able to squeeze them down enough to make it a bargain....lol

I will have investigate these extractors. I have not had any dealings with them at all.

Sterob

[Stustoys]

If you mean a cyclonic separator I wouldn't worry about it until you find you need it, I think they are more for woodworkers, I guess it depends on home many hours you think you will be using it for.
One mod you might like to think about, get a foot pedal and disable the trigger. I find it far easier to use when you can just grab the gun any old way and not have to worry about getting your gloved finger onto the trigger.

Stuart

[eskimo]

Hi Sterob ,
crushed walnut shell but cant find a local supply of it yet.

James

I got a sack of the stuff some years ago for the case tumbler from
Burwell Technologies | Sandblasting Equipment | Abrasive Blasting (http://www.burwell.com.au/)

a lot cheaper than what the gun shops wanted per kilo

[Dave J]

I was just using sand for free and so was my local blaster up until 5 years ago when work cover said they would shut him down if he found them using it again. So now he uses and gives me crushed glass and I find it cuts better but than glass and wears out a bit slower.
The gun I have, is just the standard alloy one with the rubber suction pipe that you buy for around $30.

Dave

[Stustoys]

One quick point about those guns. On the older ones the pick up was two pieces of pipe in inside the other. Don't push the rubber hose all the way on as air needs to be able to enter the outer pipe. They seem to have a new design now.
Stuart

[Dave J]

I agree with you there, I have 2 or 3 guns here because sometimes I pick them up cheap. If you have a lathe the nozzles are easy to make as well.
One thing I forgot to mention was I have a older 8cfm and 12 cfm and running at 90psi they are flat out and cant keep up so I think you would need a 30cfm.
I did get an offer to use a guys big sandblast cabinet and compressor that was looking at buying the design and plans for the crane I built on the 4wd. It was a 6ft high commercial cabinet with a 32cfm compressor and it didn't keep up either, but never went below about 50-60psi.
I have always wanted to pick up one of those trailer mounted screw compressors and sand blasting unit with air fed helmet.:U

Dave

[.RC.]

what do you guys use for grit?
not supposed to use sand...ARE YOU!!

I thought the idea of these blasting cabinets was no dust escapes them...

But no sand is a big no no... Is causes silicosis... I have 5X25kg bags of crushed garnet here for use in my blasting cabinet.... when I make it...

[Stustoys]

Is causes silicosis
"It can cause"
Lots of the time it causes nothing.
I should ask my doctor "Should I smoke, sandblast withsand or operate a H&F lathe with a brake?" Like so many of these things there maybe a risk, but it can be hard to find out just what that risk is. I mean who gives a second thought to driving down to the shops? you just might not make it back but we still do it every day.


"The development of silicosis depends on a number of factors including:

-amount and kind of dust inhaled -percentage of free silica in the dust -the form of silica -the size of the silica particles -the duration of exposure -the individual's natural body resistance -presence or absence of complicating factors (such as infection)."

[Dave J]

I don't think sand contained in a sealed blast cabinet will do much if any harm. If I couldn't get the crushed glass for free, I would go back to sand without a worry as I used it for years before.
The sand blaster said to me he couldn't see the problem as it was done outside with a air fed helmet, so he wasn't breathing it.

Not sure if you guys looked at the link I posted, but he set up his dust extraction with a blower instead of the standard vacuum set up, it would make the blower motor last near forever.
Another guy on a different forum had the extraction pipe going out side his shed with a hole and a flange in the wall for the flex hose.
I would think having a cyclonic type catcher in the system would catch the grit instead of waisting it.

Dave

[Stustoys]

I saved the link and looked at the pictures :D (I like the sliding gloves)

On all the shop vacs I've had apart(granted that's not many) the vac air doesn't pass through the motor.(although maybe that is limited to wet/dry vacs)

As far as cyclonic separators go, I've used an old torpedo vac on my sandblaster and very little sand ends up in the vac. I guess that would depend just how big a vac you get.

Stuart

[Sterob]

I just realised today that there is an old Clemco sand blasting cabinet tucked away in the corner of one of our old workshops.
It is completely knackered except the cabinet has no dents in it! The door is missing, the gloves are missing, the vac doesn't work( I'm sure), the gun is missing and the light doesn't work, the glass is missing.....lol
The good news is that I may be able to score it for free .( our work does not bother try to sell scrap. If you can convince them that they don't want it, you take it away....) The bad news is that is may not be worth getting for free....
Its bigger than the H&F machines. I just don't know if I want to try and refurbish it, it might take way too much time and money, for the end result.....who knows?
I did a quick google, and they are still in business( US company), but I could not see that particular model ( I haven't identified it yet) so I don't know if parts are available yet.
The basic structure is there, but nothing else.....lol The missing door is a real bummer. That will take alot to make a new on, or cost a fortune to buy one.....
I'll see if I can get some pic's tomorrow.
Sterob

[Dave J]

Sounds ok and would probably be a better quality unit, but it's up to you if you want another project or one to use strait away.
I know the gloves and gun aren't much, the door and the glass might cost a bit more though.

Dave

[Sterob]

Sounds ok and would probably be a better quality unit, but it's up to you if you want another project or one to use strait away.
I know the gloves and gun aren't much, the door and the glass might cost a bit more though.

Dave


Yeah, maybe.....At least it will be cheap to buy. I can always get new H&F gun, hoses, etc for it. I will make some inquires tomorrow and maybe I can fix the vac......I'll get some pics and see what you say then...lol

Sterob

[Dave J]

Not sure if their over their but Supercheap have them as well and are always having sales.

Dave

[Sterob]

Not sure if their over their but Supercheap have them as well and are always having sales.

Dave

Supercheap are over here, but no mention of sand blaster cabinets on their website........
I sent an email to the Boss today, to see if the cabinet could be taken away, but I got no response. He must be too busy.
Here' a couple of pics. I went looking for the door, all to no avail. It must have been ditched. I looked for a manual as well...no joy. I have one more spot to look for that one.
The cabinet is about the same size as the H&F cabinets.

Sterob

[Stustoys]

Looks like a bargin
whats in the green box on the floor?

SCA Air Sand Blaster Gun Kit - Supercheap Auto (http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/SCA-Air-Sand-Blaster-Gun-Kit.aspx?pid=156474#details)
Stuart
p.s. H&F have it on sale for $27.50 this weekend. Altohugh it only shows 2 nozzles

[Sterob]

Looks like a bargin
whats in the green box on the floor?

SCA Air Sand Blaster Gun Kit - Supercheap Auto (http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/SCA-Air-Sand-Blaster-Gun-Kit.aspx?pid=156474#details)
Stuart

I don't know yet! I won't find out unless I can snag it. A filter maybe?
I saw that gun Stu, but I was looking for cabinets.
I have discovered that Burwell are agents for Clemco, but they are not exactly gushing with assistance....lol I have sent Clemco USA an email so will see what they come up with. The cabinet has the model number of it still.
Sterob

[Graziano]

I use a mate's 1960's vintage blaster which evacuates into a set of cloth socks at the rear of the unit which appears to totally filter the air, every so often you pull a long lever on the side to shake the cloth socks clean. The cabinet is about three metres tall, two deep and one wide, seen em on ebay occasionally too.

[Sterob]

Looks like a bargin
whats in the green box on the floor?
s

I had a quick look today. It looks like a trap for the media. It had a couple of dividers inside, maybe acting as a laberyinth so the media settles and doesn't get sucked up by the vac.
Sterob

[Dave J]

It would be worth getting, even if you sold it on.

Dave

[rusty steel]

Hello Streob,
About 20 years ago I restored a Honda XR75 for my kids and I had the frame sandblasted commercially. The firm also primed the frame immediately after blasting. I dont remember how much it cost, but it I know it wasn't very much. I don't like outsourcing jobs but unless I had a lot of work a cabinet it would take up too much valuable space. If I want to sandblast something small I protect myself as good as I can and do it out in the yard .That way I top dress the lawn at the same time.lol Russell

[Graziano]

Hello Streob,
About 20 years ago I restored a Honda XR75 for my kids and I had the frame sandblasted commercially. The firm also primed the frame immediately after blasting. I dont remember how much it cost, but it I know it wasn't very much. I don't like outsourcing jobs but unless I had a lot of work a cabinet it would take up too much valuable space. If I want to sandblast something small I protect myself as good as I can and do it out in the yard .That way I top dress the lawn at the same time.lol Russell

I've thought about building a folding blaster cabinet, that way it goes flat against the wall when not in use.

[Dave J]

Hello Streob,
About 20 years ago I restored a Honda XR75 for my kids and I had the frame sandblasted commercially. The firm also primed the frame immediately after blasting. I dont remember how much it cost, but it I know it wasn't very much. I don't like outsourcing jobs but unless I had a lot of work a cabinet it would take up too much valuable space. If I want to sandblast something small I protect myself as good as I can and do it out in the yard .That way I top dress the lawn at the same time.lol Russell

Thats where I do mine, but usually use plastic to reuse the glass. I have a little cardboard box in the shed with a sheet of plastic taped to the top and 2 hand holes cut for small jobs when it's to wet outside.

Dave

[Dave J]

I've thought about building a folding blaster cabinet, that way it goes flat against the wall when not in use.


That sounds like a great idea, any drawn up plans of how it all folds up?

Dave

[Graziano]

That sounds like a great idea, any drawn up plans of how it all folds up?

Dave

Hi Dave, in a word: no, it would be constructed of sheet metal with sheet rubber corners to act as hinges and it would store flat on the wall like a cardboard box in knocked-down form. It would need rigid props to prevent collapse while the sucker fan is running.

Hmm one way would be to picture a box with a pyramid on the bottom to form the funnel that folds flat along a diagonal that would be visible when looking down at the box from above. The non rubber hinged seams that open up when flat would have foam weather strip and wing-nuts to lock the box in the open-for-use mode and may also hold it in the flat position.

[Stustoys]

I gave some thought to a folding one when I built mine. You then need to load and unload the media. I put mine on wheels instead. If your garage suits you could build it outside with only the front face through the wall.

If you just fold the funnel just on corners you end up with a funny shape. I think you are better off adding a third hinge in the sides of the funnel. This would mean you can fix the top front of the funnel to the bottom of the box and only have opening joints at the sides. I'll draw it if you would like.

Stuart

[Graziano]

I gave some thought to a folding one when I built mine. You then need to load and unload the media. I put mine on wheels instead. If your garage suits you could build it outside with only the front face through the wall.

If you just fold the funnel just on corners you end up with a funny shape. I think you are better off adding a third hinge in the sides of the funnel. This would mean you can fix the top front of the funnel to the bottom of the box and only have opening joints at the sides. I'll draw it if you would like.

Stuart

Changing media is a hassle, I'm always swapping between glass beads, garnet and soda with the one blaster so a system to make it easy would be handy to have.

It'll be an interesting problem in developing a solid object. If you have a square pyramid funnel attached to a box folded flat it would have to open up a wedge shaped gap somewhere. A diagram of your idea would be handy to look at.

[Dave J]

Canvas bottom maybe?

Dave

[Graziano]

It's going to be a neat bit of origami whatever the solution, I was thinking more along the lines of extra hinge seams along the middle of the left and right hand sides of the pyramid so that when flat the front triangle and rear triangle of the pyramid funnel have half sized triangles formed by the side triangles folded in half outwards from the front/rear triangles. There would be gaps between the box LH and RH sides and the pyramid LH and RH sides when flat that could have overlap strips to close any gaps when opened.

Does that make sense?:wink:

[Graziano]

I gave some thought to a folding one when I built mine. You then need to load and unload the media. I put mine on wheels instead. If your garage suits you could build it outside with only the front face through the wall.

If you just fold the funnel just on corners you end up with a funny shape. I think you are better off adding a third hinge in the sides of the funnel. This would mean you can fix the top front of the funnel to the bottom of the box and only have opening joints at the sides. I'll draw it if you would like.

Stuart

Hang on..... I think I just described your solution Stu :oo:

[Sterob]

Hi Russ,
I have room for it, and if I want a job done, I hate waiting for someone else to do it 'next week'........
I also use Bicarb Soda and that kills the lawn.....lol


Still haven't heard...I gave the boss a hurry up today, but he is waiting to hear from the foreman......If I can get an answer soon, I'll be able to pick it up this weekend.

I have some prices for parts. I think I will just buy H&F spares ( ie gun and gloves) and get the rest from work.
Sterob

[Stustoys]

Hang on..... I think I just described your solution Stu :oo:
lol yeap you did.
If you don't mind the loading door being on the top it should work. It's going to use a lot of piano hinge though.

I cant draw it up on paint, I'll try and get something done tomorrow(the drawing broad is in the shed).

Stuart

[eskimo]

the drawing broad is in the shed.




Stuart...does your better half know you talk about her like that:D

[Dave J]

:roflmao2:

[Stustoys]

I've tried but she wont stay in the shed. At least she pretty much stays out of it :D
Stuart

[Stustoys]

Well I've done a rough drawing and I'm pretty happy it can be built. But! as is, it has over 7m of hinge and would fold from 580mm deep to something less than 150mm.
I'd make the sides of the box fold in and the sides of the funnel fold out, so sand running down the wall falls into the funnel.
If anyone is interested in building one I could do a more detailed pattern.
Stuart
p.s. the red lines are hinge

[Graziano]

Well I've done a rough drawing and I'm pretty happy it can be built. But! as is, it has over 7m of hinge and would fold from 580mm deep to something less than 150mm.
I'd make the sides of the box fold in and the sides of the funnel fold out, so sand running down the wall falls into the funnel.
If anyone is interested in building one I could do a more detailed pattern.
Stuart


That's it!, I was going to make my own sealed hinges from rubber strips clamped by metal strips and pop rivets to get an airtight seal.

Edit, that top middle drawing has a vertical line between the funnel and the box which is going to open up a wedge shaped gap when folded but this can be worked around.

[Stustoys]

The three vertical hinges on the cabinet would need to be piano hinge(sealed with rubber) or at least a steel hinge at the top to carry the load.

If you fold the funnel "in" that line comes up into the cabinet. The line od the cabinet stays level.
If you had a large enough piece of rubber you might be able to come up with a rubber gusset between the sides of the cabinet and the sides of the funnel and then it would all fold in.
Stuart

[Graziano]

Hmm this looking very practical, I'll have to get out the scissors and cardboard with sticky tape hinges. The grate could hinge down to give the unfolded open box shape rigidity and one side could be the entry doors.

[Stustoys]

lol I did some real cut and paste just to be sure that the funnel would move the way I thought it would.
Yeah the grate is pretty much what stops it folding back up, that and a double lip around the top that slips over the sides.
Not sure how you could make side doors work. The top should open up far enough.

Stuart

[Sterob]

It's going to be a neat bit of origami whatever the solution, I was thinking more along the lines of extra hinge seams along the middle of the left and right hand sides of the pyramid so that when flat the front triangle and rear triangle of the pyramid funnel have half sized triangles formed by the side triangles folded in half outwards from the front/rear triangles. There would be gaps between the box LH and RH sides and the pyramid LH and RH sides when flat that could have overlap strips to close any gaps when opened.

Does that make sense?:wink:


Like this one half way down the page?

Sandblaster & Sand blast units - Procureit Australia (http://www.procureit.com.au/sandblast.html)

[Sterob]

Anybody know if you can get ceramic tips made? I'm thinking on how to reduce the CFM needed to run a gun. I'm guessing it will require more than just reducing the nozzle size on the gun.......

Sterob

[Dave J]

I just make up steel nozzles by the half dozen when they wear out.
I am not sure if you could use less airflow, you would see them selling as "The new low pressure sand blaster" lol
You have a mill and a lathe, maybe time to experiment with making some guns and nozzles.
I would think a smaller nozzle would need a larger grit nozzle/hole.

Dave

[Graziano]

I know a guy who makes nozzles out of silver steel and hardens them glass hard with no tempering and finds it better value than tungsten carbide nozzles.

[Sterob]

I just make up steel nozzles by the half dozen when they wear out.
I am not sure if you could use less airflow, you would see them selling as "The new low pressure sand blaster" lol
You have a mill and a lathe, maybe time to experiment with making some guns and nozzles.
I would think a smaller nozzle would need a larger grit nozzle/hole.

Dave


Yeah, that may be all I need to do. Something to think about when I get cranked up.

[Sterob]

I know a guy who makes nozzles out of silver steel and hardens them glass hard with no tempering and finds it better value than tungsten carbide nozzles.

That sounds interesting. I might try that too. I might harrass you for more info later on, if you don't mind?......
Sterob

[Graziano]

That sounds interesting. I might try that too. I might harrass you for more info later on, if you don't mind?......
Sterob

As far as I know they are just heated dull red and water quenched with no temper afterwards.

[Sterob]

I still haven't heard 'yay' or 'nay' regarding the sandblaster yet. Everyone is shrugging when asked about the cabinet...lol Maybe tomorrow......
I have found a nice looking gun and foot switch from the US but haven't committed to it yet. They are the same as H&F supply with SB-420 ( $1200 I think)

[Sterob]

I got the nod today so the cabinet is mine for the taking. I managed to find the gloves that were removed from it so I just grabbed the clamps. The gloves are too stiff so I will just source some softer ones, I hope....Seen a heap on US Ebay. ( a gun and foot switch as well)
It will take me a while to get it all sorted, but it shouldn't cost me alot. ( I hope again.....)
Have to find a spot for it and pick it up on the weekend. Work is 20 km away so it will take a bit it time to go and get it.

Sterob

[Stustoys]

:2tsup:good score Sterob

[Dave J]

You cant get any cheaper than free.:2tsup:

Dave