Mill DRO

[Stustoys]

Bought myself a DRO(with a little help...... thanks) for my bridgeport clone and have just started to fit it.

Here is a picture(sorry for the crappy picture it is the only one I have of the whole lot) of it as it came out of the box. I got four scales so I can put one on the quill and upgraded to 0.001mm scales. It didn't come with much in the way of mounting brackets but I'm not fussed about that as I've been told its better/prettier to make your own anyway.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=152640&stc=1&d=1289389036


I found that one of the scales is broken and hopefully the replacement is on its way.

I'm starting with the easiest thing first which is mounting the readout. Should have a picture of that tomorrow(hardly exciting lol).
Stuart

[neksmerj]

Hi Stu,

More details please. Where did you get it, and an approx price if not being too nosy?

Did they supply all the mounting hardware?

Oops, you mentioned the supplied hardware was thin on the ground.

Ken

[Stustoys]

Hi neksmerj
I'll wait until the other scale turns up before I start naming names and prices etc.
Stuart

[Sterob]

Nice one Stu. I can guess who helped you buy one. He's a good lad!
I will be looking for one for my Mill one day......
A little advice. Take your time and fit the easiest ( usually the shortest, I think) scale first.
Sterob

[Dave J]

Looks good, what were are the size of the scales he sent you, HxW not length.


Dave

[Stustoys]

Hi Sterob
Yes he is.
I was going to do either the quill or Y first, as I'm still undecided about mounting the X on the front or the back. It depends on if I can make up a stop system to suit as the T slot will be interfered with. The Z will be last.

Stuart

p.s. dodged a bullet today. Turned the spindle on the mill on and the inverter made a very strange noise so I turned it straight off. I thought "well there goes $500". Walked over to have a look and a cockroachy thing climbs out of the inverter looking very unhappy. Flicked him across the shed and had a smell of the inverter, it smelt ok so I fired it up again and off it went :)

[Stustoys]

HxW= 45 x 29 scale. 66 x 29 scale and head.
(thats from the manual, I'll check the scales in the morning)
They only have 1 shield rubber not 2 like some others.

Stuart

[Dave J]

All of mine only have 1 shield, it's not a concern unless you are putting them on their side or upside down.
I think the 2 Shields are all talk anyway, because if something is going to get in it will get in where it opens to go around the reader head, no amount of seals will fix that.

Dave

[Stustoys]

Yeah I wasn't fussed about it. I figure if it would last a week in a workshop it should last me about 5 years lol
Stuart

[Dave J]

Does your have a battery in it?
The only reason I ask is I had one of my Miesters in the cupboard for a year and a half off my original mill and remembered reading in the Sino manual that if the system was left unpowered for more than 12 months the unit may need to be returned to the manufacturer for a replacement battery.
I contacted Miester and they told me they don't have batteries in their DRO's.

So if you have a battery backup one it's something to keep in mind if you don't use for a extended period, it will need to be left connected to power to keep the battery charged up.

Dave

[Stustoys]

I'm pretty sure the manual doesnt say anything about a battery. I'll check.
Stuart

[eskimo]

and a cockroachy thing climbs out of the inverter looking very unhappy. Flicked him across the shed and had a smell of the inverter, it smelt ok so I fired it up again and off it went :)

normally they fry onto the circuit board and stuff it up...your lucky

[Stustoys]

...your lucky
Indeed, Now I have to come up with a box to keep it in. :(

I shouldn't post late at night, I gave the dimensions of the larger scales. Mine are HxW= 32 x 22 scale. 50.5 x 22 scale and head.

I had a look see for a battery and there might be, not sure if that's a battery or not.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=152668&stc=1&d=1289426635
And here is the angle iron bracket I made last night. It was going to be 50mm wide and not an extra arm but when I put it up there to see if I had got the spacing right so the eyelet would still fit I figured "hey that looks better than my idea" lol
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=152669&stc=1&d=1289426635

Stuart

p.s. I just had a thought about posting pictures this way. Is there anyone here thats on 56k? They might not like it much.

[Stustoys]

Well my replacement scale has turned up, so now I have no excuse not to get to work on mounting the DRO.
$650 all up with 4 0.001 scales. (5 if you count the broken one lol)

So the plan is now to mount the X axis first.
I'm thinking of mounting a piece of angle iron to the front of the bed using the T slot for the axis/power feed stops. Then mounting the scale to that. Hopefully I'll be able to have clearance to make adjustable stops for the axis/powerfeed.

Using a T nut about 100mm long and two bolts each end.
What thickness angle you think I should use? I'm thinking 3mm but you might be able to talk me into 5mm.
Stuart

[pipeclay]

Is it possable to mount the scale directly to the table without the use of the Angle,if not I would think that you would need to use what ever material thickness would be best to eliminate Vibration and Resinance,these 2 factors could have a bearing on the accuracy of your Readout.

[Dave J]

I would recommend using 5mm angle for strength when something gets dropped and because it has enough thickness to tap into to save drilling a heap of holes into the table.
When you start adding them up there is 2 for the scale and 3 or 4 for the scale cover, where as you can get away with 2 or 3 holes in the table to mount the angle and all the other holes go into the angle only.
Not sure what your table is set up like but I was able to remove the original table end stops and incorporate them into the angle holding brackets to save holes in the end of the table.
You may get away with the power feed stops in their original T slot depending on the scale size and your table height.
[/URL]
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153997&stc=1&d=1290593495

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153998&stc=1&d=1290593495
[URL="http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153998&stc=1&d=1290593495"] (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153997&stc=1&d=1290593495)
You can see the 2 counter sunk socket screws holding the center of the angle in this photo, they were the only holes drilled.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153999&stc=1&d=1290593668

The T nuts on the end don't need to be any longer than about 25mm to hold the angle and I think you will be fine with vibration because the angle is flat against the table. I painted both the angle and the table before mounting to stop rust and before final fitting I put a bead of no more gaps along the top to stop anything getting down their as well.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154000&stc=1&d=1290594045

Dave

[Stustoys]

Dave is your scale going to be mounted vertically or horizontally?

[Dave J]

I mounted it vertical, it has been mounted for a while now.
You can read more about it here
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/installing-dro-scale-front-table-hm50-52-a-115786/

If you need any other pictures or that, let me know

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154009&stc=1&d=1290597721

Dave

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Is it possable to mount the scale directly to the table without the use of the Angle,if not I would think that you would need to use what ever material thickness would be best to eliminate Vibration and Resinance,these 2 factors could have a bearing on the accuracy of your Readout.

That is what has been done by whoever fitted the DRO to my mill... The scale for the X-axis is bolted directly to the BACK of the table, and the sensor is bolted directly to the saddle.

The Y- axis scale is bolted to the right hand side of the knee, and the sensor is mounted to the saddle via a bracket constructed of TEN MM plate! Seems like overkill to me, but it works I guess. It seems to have some kind of leveling screws installed into it as well, presumably for fine adjustments. Odd, as the plate seems to sit flush against the saddle anyway :?

However, my scales have an endcap on either end with a hole through them for the bolts, Stus scales don't seem to have that?

[Stustoys]

lol That thread should help me out. I'll have a read and have another look at my mill tomorrow. I'm pretty sure my T slot is higher up the side of the bed than yours :(

What are the black blocks for to the left and right of the X axis gib locks?

[Dave J]

Stuart
They are the table travel stops. I modified the right one to be a table stop/cable clamp.

Jekyll
That is the standard factory way they fit the X axis scale, thats where it was originally fitted to this mill..
On my old mill I mounted the scale on the back but still use a 5mm angle to protect it. It wasn't enclosed like I did on this mill so I used the standard scale cover on it.
On my old mill I drooped a few thing over the back of the table and was glad the steel angle was their to protect it. I also once ran the table into the column when I was concentrating on something else, but again the table protected it.

With your Y axis, he must think the same as me,lol
I built my brackets out of 10mm steel contoured to suit the mill and angle over the scale as well, an overkill but again if they get hit they won't get damaged.
I think Stuarts scales will be the same with the hole in each end cap.

Dave

[Stustoys]

Dave I thought so but I could see anything that would press against them.

Jekyll my scales have hole on the ends, I forgot the pictures were so bad. I would like to put it on the front to save Y travel if I can(and I think I can do it without drilling as many hole.I will do some more checking tomorrow.

Stuart

[Stustoys]

Nvm Dave They are table stops, not "adjustable table stops", got it.
Stuart

[Dave J]

They are the full table travel stops from factory, they contact the blocks on the ends of the table to stop to over running it.
There was no way I was going to be able to get the power feed limit switch under the scale so I built everything out wards so it would all fit. It worked out good because the scale and reader head are fully protected from abuse and coolant.
The flat bar I enclosed the scale in with is 6mm thick and protects the scale from knocks from the front as well as giving extra strength to the angle. I use the belt sander to remove the scale and polish the top and back of the angle and also the flat bar. It also saves trying to fit the standard scale cover under the angle.
I was hoping to get away with only one hole in the table, but after trying it with a clamp I found it would be better with 2.

Dave

[Stustoys]

Yeah I worked that out reading your thread.
Mine doesn't have stops like that. One end has a bolt in the T slot so the power feed stop cant only go so far. The other end winds in until the handle hits the Y axis gib lock. I'd like include an adjustable table stop as part of the powerfeed stop(maybe not really needed with a DRO). I many need to bring the angle iron 10mm off the table to make it work.
I'll try and get some angle tomorrow so I can show you guys what I have in mind. I think I can get 50x50 in 6mm, I''ll go for that if I can.
Stuart

[Stustoys]

Well I bought two 1300mm lengths of angle iron today 50x50x6 and 65x65x5 the 5mm turns out to be more like 4.5mm. So I'm going to use the 50x50.

To still be able to use the stop T slot I'm going to bring the angle iron forward from the bed by about 12mm. The bed is about 300mm longer than the scale so I have 150mm of support each end. Pretty hard to draw in paint Put I'll just see how it goes as I dont need to drill any holes in the bed to try it.
So the first thing I need to make is a couple of 150mm long T nuts and matching plates to go between the bed and the angle iron.

I might even try making them on the shaper so they are nice and flat... I need all the practice I can get hehe..
Stuart

[Dave J]

Hi Stuart,
From the looks of it your table is thinner than mine, working out mine took a long time, a heap of measuring and a lot of dummy set up's.
Another option I looked at while designing mine was to put a aluminum T slot track on the front of the enclosed angle. That way their was no need to worry about the original track in the table.
I was lucky that I had room so I didn't need it, but it might work for you. It would make adjusting the stops easier and still have the full length to slide them along.
The aluminum place sell all sorts of track for boats, trucks, etc to pick from.

Dave

[Stustoys]

Great idea Dave. I'll keep going with my idea for the minute as when it turns out that it sucks, I'll easliy be able to switch over to you idea.

The biggest worry about the way I'm doing it at the minute is just how much trouble swarf going into the gap could be.

So far today I've cut to 155mm lengths of 25x 10 bar and set them up in the mill. Its a slow day lol

Stuart

[Stustoys]

I think the table is about the same thickness. 70mm
The bottom of the 10mm opening of the T slot is 25mm from the bottom of the table.
So its still possible I'll be able to do something pretty close to what you have done. I'll get the angle bolted on and then have another look.

[markjaffa]

I took my inspiration for mounting my X-axis scale on a HM-52G from Dave's excellent work/idea:2tsup:, which he has linked to previously in this thread. My mill has a different type of power feed arrangement to Dave's, and that is one of two things I havent completed so far - the mount for the powerfeed switch and a splash guard that will mount to the X-axis reader mount, and extend up behind the X-axis front cover.

I had a few options with the Y-axis, but I decided on one that needed a largish mounting block to bring the front of the knee to the same width as the mating surfaces of the Z-axis. The photos of the Y-axis show this red block under the front of the scale/cover. I also utilised the mounting bar that was supplied with the scale - it is supplied with 4 socket head grub screws - one at each corner - to enable levelling in all 3 axis. While I had my machine apart I installed new chip guards in the Y-axis which has extended the Y-axis travel to 240mm, with nothing more than some work with tin snips, 5" grinder and a file. Another of Dave's ideas, but I decided not to add a block to the front of the knee to increase movement as my scale is only a 250mm. :~

For the Z-axis, I needed to create a block that allowed for the tapering of the column at the top, and a mount for the first of three right angle brackets that transfer motion to the reader head. I used the same layout for this mount that the scale mounting bars use - 4 socket head grub screws to enable levelling in all 3 axis. For the scale body I again utilised a scale mounting bar to enable levelling.

The placement of the DROs on H&Fs machines didnt look too convenient to me, so I made a pivoting offset arm that allows the DRO to swivel to a lot more positions, and can be lifted off in 5 secs if need be. It still utilises the original DRO arm, in addition to the offset arm.

If you want anymore photos to illustrate something, give me a yell. :)

[Dave J]

That came up great Mark, you should do you own thread on it. I especially like your little tabs under the angle, very custom.:2tsup: Are the welded or bolted on?

I am not sure why you painted the red but I went through this winter and painted mine because I was sick of chasing surface rust in the unused parts, like the back and front of the table and saddle, ends of the table, etc. Makes clean up so much easier. I had painted the last mill blue in those areas, but then had to remove it all when it went back.:doh:
I have been playing with the idea of attaching a post to the base for the DRO,s like you have, I still have a few other ideas I am thinking of. I would like to be able to swing it over the table if possible, on a 2 hinge mount.
Keep up the good work.
Dave

[Stustoys]

Thanks for the pictures Mark.

After measuring for what seems like hours I've changed my mind Dave you bed must be thicker then mine.

Stuart

[Dave J]

Hi Stuart,
Just checked my table for you, seems to be around the same thickness.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154163&stc=1&d=1290827992

Dave

[Dave J]

Looking back at your pictures, it looks like your T slot is higher up the table which is what's causing you problems. Mine was a tight fit even with the T slot down whee it is.

Their are a few other options like the a power feed T track in front of the angle, you can have it facing down instead of to the front if you wanted to, that way it wouldn't get swarf and other crap filling it up.

Another one is I have seen other guy use stand offs at each end for the scale on mills like yours. The power feed stops are then in between the scale and the table.

Or you could lay the scale down which would give you plenty of room.

I will add some photo's from the other computer in a moment as this one is fairly new and doesn't have much on it.

Dave

PS
Can you give me the exact dimensions of the table and the scale/reader head to see what I can come up with to help out if I can.

[Stustoys]

Another one is I have seen other guy use stand offs at each end for the scale on mills like yours. The power feed stops are then in between the scale and the table.

This is the idea I am trying now.



Or you could lay the scale down which would give you plenty of room.


I'd thought about this but the angle iron would only be 30mm deep if its going to clear the T slot amd as I would like to only have bolts at the ends I would like it a little deeper.

Stuart

[markjaffa]

Cheers for the comments/encouragement Dave. :2tsup: I didnt take any photos during the job, so a thread wouldnt be much use I am afraid. Lots of mistakes were made too - I wouldnt want everyone to see how many!:B The tabs to mount the X-axis scale cover were welded on, then I milled them flat/parallel and tapped for M5 countersunk screws. Credit where its due - you were the inspiration for painting the uncoated metal. I was becoming sick of the light rust forming on the surfaces, so I sprayed them when I had the mill apart. Onto the lathe now!

[Stustoys]

Thanks for the pictures Dave
The first picture has something I hadnt thought of Y axis adjustable stops. I'll have to remember to have a think about that if I ever get the X axis finished.

The last picture is something like I am doing but with a plate each end with two bolts.
I started work on the plates today, faced one on the mill and didnt like the finish to fired up the shaper. Cleaned up one face on each plate and started roughing the other face which will fit into the T slot.

Might be finished by christmas.......... 2012 lol

Stuart

[Stustoys]

The tabs to mount the X-axis scale cover were welded on, then I milled them flat/parallel and tapped for M5 countersunk screws.
Now thats a clever idea.
I still have to get used to being able to do that sort ot thing.

Stuart

[Dave J]

Looking at your dimensions you maybe able to still do it a couple of ways having the scale against the table.
The power feed stop T nuts don't come under a lot of pressure, standard some even come plastic.
If the bases are made a bit longer it's more of a lifting force applied to them than a sliding force. In the picture it shows just using the bottom of the T slot to hold it and the top leg could rest onto the T nut. The top leg could be made 0.5mm shorter and that would be enough clamping pressure to hold the stop. A 5mm metric bolt instead of the 8mm standard one would be enough to hold it their and give enough clamping pressure.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154219&stc=1&d=1290857837

This is another idea of having the power feed stop base go up behind the scale so it rests on both top and bottom of the T slot.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154220&stc=1&d=1290858609
Dave

[Dave J]

Cheers for the comments/encouragement Dave. :2tsup: I didnt take any photos during the job, so a thread wouldnt be much use I am afraid. Lots of mistakes were made too - I wouldnt want everyone to see how many!:B The tabs to mount the X-axis scale cover were welded on, then I milled them flat/parallel and tapped for M5 countersunk screws. Credit where its due - you were the inspiration for painting the uncoated metal. I was becoming sick of the light rust forming on the surfaces, so I sprayed them when I had the mill apart. Onto the lathe now!


Hi Mark,
It was the contoured sides on the little bracket that I thought made them look professional.:2tsup:
Don't worry we all make mistakes it's a fact of learning.:doh:
Thanks, when I saw your pictures I had to look again as I thought it was my mill.lol
With posting a thread it doesn't have to be a step by step, it just gives other guys ideas for doing theirs, and I think your DRO fit out is well worth posting on it's own.
Will keep a look out for your lathe one.

Dave

[Stustoys]

With posting a thread it doesn't have to be a step by step, it just gives other guys ideas for doing theirs, and I think your DRO fit out is well worth posting on it's own.

And it may help someone else not make your mistakes :)

Dave the first drawing I thought of but wasnt sure the stops would hold well enough (other than power feed)

The second I was planning on doing but I didnt like the fact that the angle iron would only be 30mm deep as the current plan is only to have it bolted at the ends.(but I might go back to this)

Stuart

[Stustoys]

Just had another thought. I could machine the bottom 5mm or so of the angle, just enough to make it flat along its length and use that as the other side of the tee slot.
See the little red square I added to your picture.(the red square being part of the powerfeed stop)

more measuring lol

Stuart

[Dave J]

Hi Stuart,
I know how you feel it's one big headache trying to get everything to fit.
The last idea wont work because the scale will be in the way. It's not drawn so it's easy to forget the 5mm thickness of the the top of the angle plus 1-2mm clearance and then the scale height all add up to 38-39mm, which would just come into the T slot 3-4mm.
From what you have written, I think you have adjustable table stops in mind like I do.
If so I would go with horizontal mount myself in this situation. That way it will leave the T slot area clear.
The idea of building it out off the table is OK, but I would still use an angle to support the scale, maybe a 6mm thick one since it is only supported on each end.

Dave

[Stustoys]

Hi Dave
I could space the scale back from the angle enough to get the tab in. The angle would still be "only" 40mm deep.

I have powerfeed stop but I would like to add a postive stop as well. I cant just bottom the power feed stops as the switch box isn't up to it.

The angle I am using is 50x50x6mm

After more time this morning than someone good with a file would have taken to finish it, I almost have the first plate finished. Still I certainly need the practice on the shaper.

Stuart

[Dave J]

Hi Stuart,
I have been having a play in paint with some more ideas LOL,as seen below.

With the shaper nice honed tool with small radius and a fine feed should bring up a nearly like ground surface. You have the bulk of it gone now, just give it a sharpen and hone before the final cut. If all else fails give it a fly cut on the mill.

I came up with this idea for a horizontal mount. The main center piece is either a box with the back side cut out or a piece folded up to suit. It is attached by 4 bolts into the saddle which would be plenty strong enough.
The power feed switch would be inside this box with holes drill in the side to suit the plunges. Doing it this way would make this bracket strong and incorporate everything into one thing. You could either mount the switch first then put the box over the top or mount the switch to the box itself.
You could still run a flat bar along the front of the angle to protect everything and the bracket would have extra protection and wouldn't be noticed much because the vise over hangs the front of the table anyway.

This will leave everything clear for your stops.
I have a good picture of a x axis travel stop that a guy made I will chase it up for you, it was very simple but effective. I have made a steel T track for my Y axis travel stops, just have to fit it.

Dave

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154314&stc=1&d=1290932514

[Stustoys]

Thanks Dave

My tool sharpening could use a lot of work but the finish is pretty good, better than off the mill I think. I couldn't use my favorite tool profile because I needed the 90 deg corners. But they are within a couple of .001" which seems to be about the smallest cut I can take. I am guessing its the tool holder I am using, its off a lathe with built in rake, so as it flexes the cut depth increases.

I've got the plates finished. Just as I was finishing the 2nd one I relised that I could have made them in one piece and cut it in half lol.
The first plate fits the T slot with 0.03mm play, the second one isn't so good at 0.1mm play.

Damn shapers make a mess!! going to have to make something like a grass catcher for it.

I'll have to buy some 8mm bolts tomorrow so I can bolt it together and see how it looks.

I think I can use your last stop idea even with the scale vertical. I'll have a look tomorrow if I get it together.

Stuart

[Dave J]

You don't want them to be to tight anyway or they will bind.
I kept these photos of this shaper for ideas, it is an over kill in safety guarding, but I like the perspex shield, it would stop swarf going across the shed and stop the hot ones getting thrown at you.
It was on ebay UK and they wanted 10,000 pounds for it and said it was a new 1996 model from memory. I think it would have been made in India as their still making them their. Notice they even went as far as having a yellow tool for added safety and a foot switch.

Dave
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154348&stc=1&d=1290945182

[Stustoys]

These plates wont be sliding once assembled.

I was thinking about some sort of 90 deg funnel mounted off the base, but I haven't giving it a lot of thought yet.

Emg stop on the back of the machine?

Table up/down on the other side of the machine?

To go a little OT I did some of the Vertical cuts on the shaper with the table table height. I've read that you should use the tool height for vertical moves but then you need to be sure its set at 90 deg, any idea why?

Stuart

[Dave J]

I have seen smaller machines with power table feed as well as cross feed, so it is normal on smaller machines at least.
With a large machine like yours the support leg would not be able to be used so the table could/would droop, but if the job was set up aligned without it I can't see a problem. One thing with manually raising the table would be inconsistent feed and very tiring on a larger job.

With the tool head/slide you would set it true vertical if you needed a vertical cut, otherwise you could angle it. the clapper always needs to be angled away from the job for clearance on the return stroke. To set the tool slide true use a square on the table and a dial indicator onto the square.

Dave

[Stustoys]

Talking about overkill? I finally bolted the plates to the angle. There will be two more 8mm bolts through that go into the T slots. Four bolts and two pins. now that ought to do it.
Have to go out and buy some good taps. I have a cheap set and while they do work. sort of. It takes about 15 minutes to tap each hole lol Still the whole set cost just a little more than 1 sutton tap.

[Dave J]

I have all sorts of top brands tap here and decided to buy some of the H&F's HSS ones when I was down their a few years ago. I only did this because I bought a set of Sutton's and 2 where blunt strait out of the packet.
They have worked out to be just as good as the Sutton HSS ones I have bought and have lasted and are still going strong.
They sell them in a set of three in all the common sizes and are about half price of Sutton sets.

Going by your picture you will have one of these at each end?

Dave

[Stustoys]

Wow I've always found Sutton to be spot on. Maybe things are slipping? Did you call them? I assume all their stuff is still AU made?

I tend to buy 1 bottom and 1 gun tap rather than a set of 3, depends on my mood lol

I have a set the same as H&F's T012 with I paid $20 delivered I believe. They have been ok up until I wanted to tap a M8 through 12mm.

Yes one plate each end.

Stuart

[Dave J]

Do you use tapping fluid? It will make your taps cut better and last longer.

Dave

[Stustoys]

I use trefolex cutting compound. But as I've never used anything else I have no idea how good it is.

Damn shop shuts and 5 and I cant get there until 1/4 past.
better wait until morning as these threads are the important ones.

Why are things never as easy as you think they are going to be? lol

Stuart

[Dave J]

Thats my specialty, under quoting time to do something.LOL

Dave

[Stustoys]

Dave
When you mounted the scale onto the angle. Did you machine the angle or the scale at all to make the corner fit? To get off the radius of the corner I have to move the scale down about 5mm. Which isnt to bad I guess, its just you seem to be able 1mm down.

Also are the two 4mm capscrews really enough to hold a 1m long scale?

Bought my new taps.... soo much easier, although the time saved was lost because I drilled a clearance hole where it sould have been a taped hole. hehe

Stuart

p.s. I found a use for my long drawbar, when using the drill chuck to tapping a hole I've just drilled I can turn the tap with a spanner on the draw bar.

[Dave J]

Hi Stuart,
My scales had a radios similar to the angle so they fitted pretty close as you saw.
If yours have a sharp corner just mill or grind the corner of the angle out, I would not touch the scale though.
The factory fitted scales on mine where held on with 4mm socket head cap screws, so I think they will be fine. From memory I used 5mm ones instead because I had some here. My Meister DRO didn't come with any hardware and I used 6mm screws back then and it hard fitting them as their was no room for adjustment and had to be spot on.
The X scale on mine has 670 travel and is about 790mm long and the 4mm ones it come with held it fine, theirs is not much pressure put on it with only the reader head sliding along it.
With your clearance hole, time to get out the welder,lol

Your draw bar sounds like it's working for a tapping aid, a spring center is a good project for tapping and you can use it in the lathe as well.

Dave

[Stustoys]

My scales have sharp corners. Change of plan anyway, I'm going to space the scale off the angel by about 3mm so on the readhead mounting block. I will have a piece of 2mm steel that goes up between the scale and the angle to stop anything the falls down the gap filling up. Something not completly unlike the drawning. Although of course that may change.

Toying with the idea of adding some sort of tray to the angle iron each end. Something thats quick to remove but can hold all the little things that are always floating around when I work lol

My welder isn't home at the minute so I just made a new one.

Yeah spring centers of some kind are on the to do list.

Stuart

[Dave J]

Not sure what you mean about the 2mm, wont the scale still be under the angle and protected?

Dave

[Stustoys]

Well forgetting the drawing wouldn't have helped ;)

To stop swarf that will build up on the mount(Red)getting between the head and the scale.

[Dave J]

You could make that into the mount to bolt the scale to now you have 5 mm gap.

Dave

[Stustoys]

Ok, so the basics of the X axis are roughed out. Time to start thinking about the Y. Mark did you mount your Y scale on the left because of the switch box on the right?
The scale covers that came with me unit are something like yours but without the end plates. Anyone found that the alum covers arent enough on the Y?

Stuart

[Dave J]

My mill is still setup as delivered on the left with aluminum brackets, but I will be changing it over to steel when I get time, but leaving it on the left because it's away from the Y axis lock's.

I went with steel angle (again for protection) and put 2 jacking grub screws in each end. This way you just bolt the angle on and adjust until it's true. Then when you bolt the scale on you only have to worry about up and down. I also went with a steel bracket coming off the saddle to hold the reader head with 4 jacking screws on the end to adjust the reader head.

It is better if you can to keep the scale as close to the way as possible otherwise you will find you will get a lever effect when doing up the locks for that axis.
I found this out with the knee install as the reader head was about 150mm behind the way and when tightening it, the leverage would have the numbers going up and down depending on the gib lock tightened.
The alterment would be to have the gap between the scale and reader head lined up with the way like the X axis is usually factory installed on the back of the table, but it is almost imposable to do on the Y and Z axis.

Dave

[Stustoys]

Hi Dave
My Y gib lock is on the left and there is a flat area on the right, so I think the scale will go there.
Not sure I understand your last paragraph.
Stuart

[markjaffa]

Gday Stuart,

I installed my Y axis scale on the left hand side of the saddle for three reasons -

1. To prevent interference with the control box, as you mentioned
2. To keep the Y gib locks clear, because they are on the right hand side of the saddle.
3. To prevent interference between the Z-axis scale (which pretty much had to go on the right hand side because of the electrical box) and the Y-axis scale

To be honest, I didnt even consider making a steel mount/cover for the Y-axis scale. I did as the instructions suggested and mounted the cover with a 3mm air gap to the scale - hopefully if I drop something off the back of the table this gap will prevent the scale from being damaged. I might make a steel cover one day - I will just add it to the end of a very long list!:)

[Dave J]

Hi Stuart,
Hopefully the picture below clears thing up, sometimes it's hard to explain in words. The knee is hard not to set up this way so your stuck with the dro numbers moving when the gib locks are tightened. The perfect place for the knee scale would be under the knee next to the screw, but their isn't enough room.

I have copied and pasted this from above because it all goes together for anybody reading.

[Quote{ It is better if you can to keep the scale as close to the way as possible otherwise you will find you will get a lever effect when doing up the locks for that axis.
I found this out with the knee install as the reader head was about 150mm behind the way and when tightening it, the leverage would have the numbers going up and down depending on the gib lock tightened.
The alterment would be to have the gap between the scale and reader head lined up with the way like the X axis is usually factory installed on the back of the table, but it is almost imposable to do on the Y and Z axis.[Unquote]

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154910&stc=1&d=1291516381

Hi Mark,
I have moved my electrical box back in preparation for the Z axis scale on the left. I didn't have to change anything other than make up some some brackets and drill 2 extra holes to relocate it, all the cables where long enough. The old holes will be used to mount the scale and it doesn't bother the door operation at all.
Even If you don't plan on putting the scale on this side it is worth moving it back, as it gives more room and keeps it away from swarf and coolant.
On my old mill I found having it on the right interfered with the knee gib locks and this one come factory fitted on the right which does the same thing.
I took a few pictures for you which are below.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154911&stc=1&d=1291516381

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154912&stc=1&d=1291516381

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154913&stc=1&d=1291516381

Dave

[eskimo]

mmm i I need to buy some red paint...there must be something on my mill that needs that colour......:U

must be the colour the pro's use

[Stustoys]

Thanks guys
My Y and Z gib locks are both on the left. Also my mill doesnt have a dovetail way on the Y. It uses three gibs, two hold the table down and one holding the table left to right. The gib lock only works on the left right gib so I guess it wont effect the Y axis scale. Although it may move the table in relation to the X axis but it wouldnt show up on the X scale. I'll still mount the scale as high as I can.
Stuart

[Dave J]

Eskimo,
LOL, They say red makes things go faster, not sure it's worked for me.
Some of the inside castings where red on mine, so I just followed on from that, Ray went blue.
I am not sure if I will go with red on all the blue bits of the machine, have been thinking of painting the whole lot machinery grey, to stop it looking so Chinese.
The front and back of the table are just painted to stop surface rust with the super cheap spray cans, with no undercoat. It needs a few weeks to really harden up and oil etc wont bother it. I painted all this on the returned mill and when I had to get it off, it came off easily with a Stanley knife blade with no damage to the surface. What ever colour it's worth doing as it will save you having to keep on top of the surface rust on surfaces that don't need to be bare.

Stuart
You should be right on the Y axis, just keep this in mind for the Z axis.

Dave

[Stustoys]

Almost time to get back onto my DRO.
I need to come up with a mount for the X axis reader head.
I'm thinking about doing away with the power feed stops or moving them so they only function as overtravel stops.
The "solid" stops I'm not so sure about. Needed?
I'd like something that didnt stack swarf and coolant up where the table meets the carriage.

Also while you guys are thinking. My Z has to gib locks and its a fair walk to get around to them. Anyone seens a mod that lets you bring one lever to the front of the knee to lock/unlock them? I have a few ideas, but its always nice to see what others have come up with.

Stuart

[Dave J]

I think a block milled to suit the angle and a piece of flat bar bolted to it would work for their. Something like in the picture below.

I have to walk around to my knee locks as well and have a plan to convert them to the front. I am just going to use rods to come from the knee locks to the front, but with mine having 2 I will need 2 levers at the front. Some model Bridgeport's come with the lock handle at the front, but it is built into it from factory.

Dave

[Stustoys]

I'll whip one up in wood and see how it goes Dave.

For the gib lock I was thinking of something along the lines of one of these.

Stuart

[Dave J]

The first one would be way to much leverage and too easy to over load them. The second one looks good. I would only make it so it has a 1 to 1 ratio or having the two locks into one 1.5 to 1 ratio at the most to save over loading them.
It is too easy to give it a nip up and over do it.

Dave

[Stustoys]

You could make the arm out of 1/4 round. Then hit your thumb with a hammer everytime you bend it ;)
I like the first one simply because no holes need to be drilled in the machine, but it is a little on the ugly side lol
Stuart

[Stustoys]

New improved version with only 1 hole.

[Dave J]

I origonaly thought of something like this, but like your second idea.

Dave

[Stustoys]

new version again. This one when you tighten the locks the long arm is in compression, if you push to hard it will flex(with any luck at all). You could even pre bend it a little to make sure it does(as per the right drawing).

[electrosteam]

Stuart,
In the railway industry, compensating levers for force application of brake blocks against wheels is proven.
The attached diagram shows the idea.
Just trying to help,
John.

[Stustoys]

John
Is that two versions of the same idea? If so I get it and like it a lot. If not I'm missing something.(wouldn't be the first time)

Solves the problem of one handle needing to turn further than the other at different points in the knees travel(assuming in fact that this happens, I had been thinking about some sort of spring loading on the "far" lock). The only problem I can see is when you are undoing the locks, one will come completely undone first, then the other. The arm on the first lock to come undone will be a Top Dead Center. Any idea how that dealt with that? Maybe gravity would be enough in my case.

Thanks

Stuart

[electrosteam]

Stuart,
Two versions.

You could use a leadscrew with a rotary handle to operate it, with the nut fixed and the screw moving, like a machine leadscrew backwards.
Thus would give plenty of force from an easy control, if you accept a couple of revolutions to apply or release the clamp.

John.

[Stustoys]

Ok you lost me a little with your last message John. I've edited your picture to show you what I was worried about. The top drawing is how the levers would look "undone". If nothing moved them from top dead center when you push on the rod to close them they would just stay at TDC. But I think gravity would insure that they would move down, lucky that's the way I need them to go :)

Stuart

p.s. I'm doing it again. Its not like I dont have 100 things to make already. really have to get somethings finished! hehe

[electrosteam]

Stuart,
On the mills that I have used, the Z-way clamps apply/release with only 45 degrees movement, or less.
The handles are adjustable in about 10 degree steps, so you 'should' be able to set it with the levers at, say, 135 degrees from the vertical in release and 180 degrees applied.
This is all conjecture that would need testing on the actual machine.

If the gib is adjusted correctly on a minimal wear machine, very little movement is necessary between the released and applied positions.

If you need more than about 45 degrees movement (say 60 max) to be sure of the action, levers may not be sufficient.

My kondia has a Z-way clamp operated from the front with a 'longish' lever operating a torsion bar to a cam that has a push rod applying force to the gib.
I am not sure if this scheme has any adjustments available to correct for wear.

John.

[Stustoys]

Good points John. I'll try and get some shed time tomorrow.
Dave talked me into trying coolant, so now I have some cleaning up to do lol
Still servers me right, I should have got it hooked up months ago.

Stuart

[Stustoys]

Ok, so its not about the DRO.It's an idea Dave gave to stop the coolant running off the vice, down the table, over the carriage, under the way cover and down the Z screw lol
$8 of oven trays and 10 minutes grinding and filing. Might need to drill some holes into the other T slots but I think I'll try it as is for now.

Stuart

[Dave J]

Good to see it's working for you, that tray looks like it was made for the job.:2tsup:
I hope your wife doesn't come out to the shed looking for her baking tray.:o

Dave

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Ok, so its not about the DRO.It's an idea Dave gave to stop the coolant running off the vice, down the table, over the carriage, under the way cover and down the Z screw lol
$8 of oven trays and 10 minutes grinding and filing. Might need to drill some holes into the other T slots but I think I'll try it as is for now.

Stuart

DOH! Why are the best ideas always so simple? I like it...

[Stustoys]

DOH! Why are the best ideas always so simple? I like it...
lol that's pretty much exactly what I said to Dave when he suggested it.

Dave its one and a half trays, so I'll buy another so I can make a set for my other vice. The funny part is she bought them for me, I didn't want to use the old ones out of the kitchen coz 1. They have baked on "stuff" so aren't flat. 2. I wanted two of the same sort so the thickness was the same. She is good to me I think I better buy three so she can have a couple of new ones as well

Stuart

[Stustoys]

I finally moved some metal!!!!!!
The cardboard in the third and fourth pictures is pretty much what it will look like when its done.
In the last picture the bracket is upside down, just making sure the hole centers were spot on.
No shed time tomorrow, so it wont be finished this weekend :(

Stuart

[Dave J]

Good to hear your going again, and it's looking good. If your anything like me, I bet there was a few templates made to get the shape right.
Like I have said before, once you have it fitted you will wonder how you did without.
When you post the next pictures any chance of a shot further back to see the whole set up?

Dave
PS
I hope the next update is not another month and one day ,LOL

[Stustoys]

I made sort of a half template up with two pieces of wood, then the cardboard cut out you see in the pics.
The machining of the last face "may" be done with the bracket in place.

The whole set up of the machining? or of the bracket fitted to the machine?
I have both but thought I would crop to make them smaller(and to hide some of the mess lol)

Stuart

[Stustoys]

Got some time tonight.
The block is mounted now. I'm planning on removing the angle iron to machine the face that the read head bolts to while the bracket is in place.

Stuart

P.s. the red line is about where the read head mounts.

[Dave J]

Thats a better picture, that is one custom braket..
Are you going to counter sink those socket head bolts so you can machine the face without hitting them? Also is there going to be enough meat left for the screw for the reader head.

Dave

[Stustoys]

Hmm Dave brings up a good point lol
I was planning on leaving the socket heads as they are. I can clean it up after it I cant get the cutter right down. I only need it vertical where the read head will go, even that isn't really fussy as you know.
I'm hope to lower the scale so that the bolts for the read head screw into the thicker part(blue line) or I'll pack it away from the angle iron to make the thin part a little thicker. The thin part is really there to stop coolant/swarf getting anywhere need the head.

Stuart

[Stustoys]

:doh: How am I going to machine the bracket on the machine? The bracket doesn't move lol. Of course I didnt think this through until I had removed all the angle iron mounting.
Just have to make some spaces now to space the scale off the angle, then I'' only have three axis left lol

[Stustoys]

Made up the spacers for the end of the X scale today.
After "only" 7 pages I have a DRO on the X axis :)
Its not finished but atleast its working. I'll start on the Y and Z now as they will both be on the same side so need to be done together. Once they are all finished I'l clean them up and give them a coat of paint.
Thanks guys

Stuart

[Dave J]

That came up looking great Stuart,:2tsup: As for being 7 pages, perfection takes time.
I wouldn't worry about painting the aluminum, and just leave it as is, it shouldn't corrode.
I belt sanded the top of the angle on mine so it looked the same as the table and just painted the ends and the front.

Dave

[RayG]

Hi Stuart,

Nice job, I can see a bit of careful thought and planning has gone into the mounting.

I wouldn't be too fussed about how long things take, there is a certain order and sequence for these things to be done properly, if you take short cuts, you almost always end up doing it again later.

From what I can see of what you've done so far , you will only be doing this job once.

Look forward to seeing the other axes.

Regards
Ray

[Stustoys]

Hi Ray
Thanks for that. Its funny you should appear, I've been thinking about how to add the limit switches for the power feed and most of the ideas I came up with were either ugly, fiddly or complicated, some all three :).

Then I was looking through your lathe stop thread again and though "well two of those would do it". So I have a few questions.
1. All the ones I've found so far are like $20 each. Is there some where around that's cheaper?
2. I assume they have current limits in the mA range so I'd need some relays.
3. In your diagram in lathe stop there is no "current control" on the brown wire, is that looked after by the switch?

Thanks

Stuart

[RayG]

Hi Stuart,

I got some from here ..Computer control Home & Limit switch Proximity Sensor (eBay item 270708545870 end time 21-Mar-11 12:16:44 AEDST) : Industrial (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Computer-control-Home-Limit-switch-Proximity-Sensor-/270708545870?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item3f077c994e)
$22.90 is a good price for SunX proximity switches, I am used to paying $80+ Makes me a little suspicious, are they genuine SunX? All I can say for sure is that they work fine for what I'm doing..

For power feed travel limits I think you are better off with a mechanical micro switch, like these..
Electrical IP66 Rotary Roller Lever Arm Limit Switch (eBay item 280637133233 end time 30-Mar-11 20:03:01 AEDST) : Industrial (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Electrical-IP66-Rotary-Roller-Lever-Arm-Limit-Switch-/280637133233?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item415746d1b1)

My plan for the mill cnc conversion is to use the proximity switches for homing and normal limits and then mechanical switches which trip the e-stop circuit for over-travel.

I assume you meant voltage regulation, not current control, these sensors will run on 12 - 24 volts, so no regulator required.


Regards
Ray

[Stustoys]

I cant think of a way to make the micro switches look "non ugly". As there needs to be some give in the system somewhere, but I also want a solid stop. Also the proximity switches are sealed. I'll do some more thiking.

Ray, with electronics assume nothing, I have little idea what I am talking about and tend to let the smoke out of transistors.

In the drawing of the proximity switch. The brown wire is the base and the blue is the emitter right? If you didn't limit the base current, wouldn't all the curret flow through base emitter.
1 the relay wouldn't close.
2 the magic smoke would be let out of the transistor
I assume the current it limited some how inside the proximity switch.

Stuart