The future of the T&WWW Show

[Grumpy John]

Yesterday I was talking to a salesman from one of the exhibitors at this years Melbourne T&WWW Show and he said that his company will not be exhibiting at next years show. I do not wish to name the company in open forum, but they will be missed.
He stated that costs ($10,000, plus transport) and low sales were the reason.
I used to attend the show to see as many machines and accessories "side by side" as I could. But with many exhibitors downsizing their stands, and others not even attending, the machinery on view has become less and less. With companies like Woodworking Warehouse, Hare & Forbes and Carba-Tec having 1 and sometimes 2, "3 Day Sales" a year it is no longer neccessary to attend the T&WWW Show to get a good deal.

[munruben]

It is sad to see exhibitors fall by the wayside but I guess after all said and done, profit is the name of the game and it is understandable for their decision. I will still attend the show up here each year because it is support from us, the public, that keep these kind of shows up and running. Maybe the exhibitors should look at it long term, although not making too many sales at the show, it could be that people go away from the show with the product they have seen on display in mind, as the one they will buy later on in the year when finances have improved or whatever the reason may be.
I know I have seen things at the show and have decided, "I will buy one of those when I can afford it" and I usually do later on, I am sure many others do the same.

[Sturdee]

Maybe the exhibitors should look at it long term, although not making too many sales at the show, it could be that people go away from the show with the product they have seen on display in mind, as the one they will buy later on in the year when finances have improved or whatever the reason may be.
I know I have seen things at the show and have decided, "I will buy one of those when I can afford it" and I usually do later on, I am sure many others do the same.

The same with me, after the 2009 WWW show I bought lots of items that I had seen at the show from the exhibitors that were at the show.

If they had not been there I would not have gone to them afterwards, so it is not always the sales at the show they should take into account.

I believe I know who GJ is talking about and, if so,the range they had on display was minimal and them increasing their prices shortly before the show and then offering a 10 % discount didn't go over very well with a number of my friends. :((

Sometimes the bean counters ought to be hanged and quartered for not taking into account the goodwill generated at the WWW shows.


Peter.

[groeneaj]

I am the same. I tend to look around and see what my next purchase will be in the upcoming months.

Maybe they can make it cheaper for exhibitors to have stands at the show?

[Groggy]

I enjoy the shows and appreciate the time and effort the stand holders go to. They are not always the cheapest but they are there to answer your questions and demonstrate the gear to you.

To me, this shows a commitment to the woodworking community and is not a transactional approach. They will continue to attend and contribute even if the margins are not good every year. These people get my business even when I know I can save a few dollars elsewhere. I want people involved in the woodworking community and willing to show up.

There are some who, for whatever reasons, do not turn up or cease to come for financial reasons - I can respect that.

There are others who cease to attend, or have never attended, who hold 'sales' just before the T&WWWS. My personal view is that I will not support these companies unless my choices are severely restricted. I know it is tempting to get something a few dollars cheaper, but I like to think that if those dollars went to the show's vendors it sends a message - support us and we support you.

Finally, there are some stores who have sales just before the shows AND they attend. I think this is a very good approach. The WW community benefits from their attendance, they get to sell larger machinery from their premises and have a presence at the shows, plus the woodie who cannot attend the show is able to get a reasonable price. It also lets them compete with the other sales.

Once again, these are my personal views and perceptions. I am bound to 'tick off' some suppliers who run sales for whatever reasons just before the T&WWWS (they may well have valid reasons) but without knowledge of those reasons my perception is that they are attempting to undermine the shows and, by extension, the woodworking community, for the sake of their own profit.

The problem with 'perceptions' is they often have little to do with reality. I appreciate that everyone reading this will have differing views. This post is not an attempt to persuade anybody one way or another, it is simply how I see it.

[watson]

I'm with Groggy.

And just some simple thinkage........why should exhibitors give reduced prices at the shows when they've transported the goods to the venue......paid for the site...(when they already have a retail outlet)...probably have to pay staff extra like travelling allowance etc....it just makes me wonder what some people think goes on in the real world.
Its a show..an exhibition....a display of what's available, and maybe if your lucky a demo on how to use the gear.
That's my 2 cents

[Grumpy John]

I waited to get some reaction before I put in my 2 bobs worth.
In my previous life I worked for a couple of firms involved in machine tools (i.e. CNC lathes, machining centres etc.), one an Aussie based manufacturer the other a reseller of imported machines. I have been involved with 5 exhibitions, 1 at the Sydeny Showgrounds, 1 at Darling Harbour, 2 at Melbourne Exhibition Buildings and 1 at Jeff's Shed.
Each show went for 5 days and in the total 25 days I don't think more that 5 machines were ordered/sold at the show. However it was not uncommon for people who attended to place orders as much as two years after seeing a particular machine, granted I'm talking machines that sell for as much as $350K, but if you don't have a presence at these events then you're quickly forgotten about while the companies that support the exhibitions hopefully get supported by the punters.
I only hope that another retailer (rumoured to be) dropping out does not
have negative effect on the future of the T&WWW Show, as I enjoy going along not just to look at the displays but to catch up with people with a common interest.


Just a thought:
Does anyone else think it unusual that there was no presence from Omega Engineering, the makers of Stubby lathes, when Giulio Marcolongo did such a brilliant job of demoing on a stubby S750 :question:.

[ubeaut]

Oh dear... Here we go again.

Groggy hit the nail on the head and Watson drove it home.

Yes it's expensive to have a stand. No they can't make it cheaper. They have to sell the floor space and get the takings from the door to survive.

Some exhibitors come to the show and and stand around waiting for it all to happen. Some actually make it happen, they're the ones who'll survive and keep coming back as long as the public do.

It takes all kinds and as one moves on another will come in and take their place. Happened in Melb this year and will happen again I'm sure. Nothing wrong with a bit of new blood, especially if their full of beans and really want to make a go of it. That way everyone is a winner, except for the mug or mugs who pull out.

After 23 years and around 40 shows we're still around even if we did have a couple of years break from all but the Melbourne show. Now you'd think we would have saturated the market with U-Beaut stuff by now, but no. After all these years of promoting our goodies, we still reckon that around 90%+ of our sales are to people who have never seen or heard of our products before the show.

That's a lot of new blood for our distributors. Without us doing the shows our product sales would have stagnated years ago and we would probably only have a couple of distributors, if any.

If the shows die, and I very much doubt they will, I hate to think of the consequences for those who rely on them to generate new customers and showcase new products, etc. Full page ads in magazines on telly and radio every month for a year won't generate anywhere near the same new business the T&WWWShow will in 3 days and at a very small fraction of the cost.

:U

[ubeaut]

Does anyone else think it unusual that there was no presence from Omega Engineering, the makers of Stubby lathes, when Giulio Marcolongo did such a brilliant job of demoing on a stubby S750Are you sure there was no presence from Omega I'm sure I saw Rob rattling around there over the weekend. Not with his own stand, but not everyone needs to be at the shows every year. Some are having trouble coping with the massive work load they already have without putting themselves in harms way by generating more than can possibly be handled. Especially the smaller businesses.

[Grumpy John]

Are you sure there was no presence from Omega I'm sure I saw Rob rattling around there over the weekend. Not with his own stand, but not everyone needs to be at the shows every year. Some are having trouble coping with the massive work load they already have without putting themselves in harms way by generating more than can possibly be handled. Especially the smaller businesses.

Sorry Neil, I meant a business presence, similar to the Vicmark/Vermec setup.
By the way I totally agree with Groggy and Watson, the benefits of making an appearence at an exhibition/trade show are not always immediate. On the other hand it's not easy for a company to commit the funds to moving stock and taking people off the sales floor to make an appearance at a show that may or may not be profitable.

[Drillit]

Hi everyone,
There is an interesting article on this very matter by the Editor in this months Australian Woodworker. It is well worth a read. However you view these matters, it remains fundamental that the punters support Trade Shows. I am sure there are always opportunities to improve their operations. One way would be to include comprehensive details on a website, including exhibitors and their products, including demonstrators etc. etc. Others may have other better ideas and have greater experience, but in the end the Organisers may appreciate the views of the punters thru this Forum, at least as ideas that should be considered to make it better. Drillit.

[Poppa]

I can add some insight about this type of thing - from a viewpoint outside the woodworking industry. I'm tangentially (is that a word?) involved in a business that does trade fairs a couple of times a year. I've run the stand at three such fairs in the US when the main partner couldn't make it.

There is a great reason for doing them - they generate business. We do a HUGE percentage of our yearly business through the trade fairs, both in sales made at the fairs and in follow up business. They increase our visibility enormously, in a very competitive industry. Without them the growth that we've experienced over the past 5 years would not have happened.

Yes, the cost of doing them seems expensive. And if you run an unsuccessful stall that doesn't generate any business, they are expensive. We take a larger and larger stand every year, and we put an enormous amount of planning effort into our stalls, which is why they are such a success. We think the expense is totally justified, but that is because for us each successive fair is more successful - because we learn from our mistakes and work harder at it next time.

And the reason that items are sold at the fair is really simple. It doesn't cost anything to freight them back if you sell them at the fair! We try to sell everything that we take to a fair, so that we can save on shipping stuff back. It really is as simple as that - for us at least. It is also a good opportunity to make sales, because you've got lots of potential customers in the one place all at once. If you have to give them a bit of a discount to make the sale we think that is worth it.

Back to the topic of the T&WWW show, I love to go, and like many others here I try to support the folks that are there, either at the show or through the year.

[Jim Carroll]

I can add some insight about this type of thing - from a viewpoint outside the woodworking industry. I'm tangentially (is that a word?) involved in a business that does trade fairs a couple of times a year. I've run the stand at three such fairs in the US when the main partner couldn't make it.

There is a great reason for doing them - they generate business. We do a HUGE percentage of our yearly business through the trade fairs, both in sales made at the fairs and in follow up business. They increase our visibility enormously, in a very competitive industry. Without them the growth that we've experienced over the past 5 years would not have happened.

Yes, the cost of doing them seems expensive. And if you run an unsuccessful stall that doesn't generate any business, they are expensive. We take a larger and larger stand every year, and we put an enormous amount of planning effort into our stalls, which is why they are such a success. We think the expense is totally justified, but that is because for us each successive fair is more successful - because we learn from our mistakes and work harder at it next time.

And the reason that items are sold at the fair is really simple. It doesn't cost anything to freight them back if you sell them at the fair! We try to sell everything that we take to a fair, so that we can save on shipping stuff back. It really is as simple as that - for us at least. It is also a good opportunity to make sales, because you've got lots of potential customers in the one place all at once. If you have to give them a bit of a discount to make the sale we think that is worth it.

Back to the topic of the T&WWW show, I love to go, and like many others here I try to support the folks that are there, either at the show or through the year.

Have to agree with you on this one bob good to see a positive post in what is generally all negatives.

Come on all of you show your support.

We have just come home from the Launceston show. It was poorly attended but the ones that did go were interested in what we had and also all of the other exhibits. We caught up with a lot of our existing customers and I am sure we have come away with a few more new ones.

[rsser]

The GFC has been hard on some retailers and manufacturers here and you can understand why they would look at changing their marketing strategy.

The rising value of the AUD hasn't helped either.

That aside, I thought this year's show was good on several levels, most mentioned here already, but particularly seeing turners I respect working on the Carroll's stand from whom I could get quick answers about the gear they were using. That lead to a bit of credit card hollowing :-

Now sharpening that edge is much more time consuming than jigging a gouge :rolleyes:

[socratous]

I finally made to the Adelaide show in '10, only about 12 years after I first said to myself I really should go check that out! lol

It was rather interesting to see the variance in supplier enthusiasm in realtion to actually making a sale/getting their name out there.

From the big boys (eg carbatec), you'd expect a decent stand and products on display, which is what happened. What got me though, is that some of the smaller players had an absolute $hithouse setup! Some of them didn't even have business cards to hand out... instead relying on little bits of paper that they jotted their name, number and email on (of which they obviously never check said email acount, or just can't be arsed to reply!).

As a whole, comparing the WWW show to the Tradesmans Tool Expo, they were like chalk and cheese! The TTE had stands from retailers, and also manufacturers, which imho made the difference. Companies such as Bosch, Makita, Hitachi, Festool etc etc all had stands manned by one or more of their sales reps. You had people to talk to that really knew what they were talking about, and wanted to talk to you, and actually followed up in a timely manner on any quiries you had if they couldn't be answered then and there. I'm a sales rep in my 9-5 life, so maybe I just have to high an expectaion of what should happen?

I know that there are a lot of time wasters out there, but as I usually go in with a no bull$hit attitude, I kind of expect the same in return. When I went to the WWW show I had only just started the job I'm in now, after having nearly a month off from the job I had previously (needed time to unwind from the stress! lol). Going a month with no income, off the back of a job that wouldn't know a proper pay rate if it hit them in the head, I was a bit tight financially. I said straight out to just about every stand I talked to that I wasn't in a position to buy big ticket items today, I just wanted to get a feel for what was out in the market so that I could buy in 3 weeks (I'd just like to point out that getting paid monthly sucks!).

To have an attitude quite negative towards me as I wasn't buying on the spot, even though I gave them an exact date I would buy if I was happy with the item/price/service got me on the back foot straight away. If I were given a free ticket for the next show, I'd probably go along. Other than that, I wouldn't be caught dead paying to go next time around. If I wanted to talk to people with a bad attitude and no clue, I would have found a drunk yobbo at my local pub!

About the only good thing that came from me going to the show last year was that I was put on to this forum (incidently by someone that couldn't be bothered answering my questions).


Ok, rant over :~

[BozInOz]

Lots of good thoughts and discussion there.

Personally, I enjoy the shows, and will delay purchases so I can go, see it in person and talk to the person.

I am sad to hear the newcastle show will not be on this year. But at the same time I would rather travel to see one major NSW show then a number of smaller ones with fewer vendors...