A carver by any other name...

[Frank&Earnest]

I waited a few days to see if Tim or NeilS would post an official eulogy, but this has not happened so I suppose I can comment on Terry Scott's recent workshop in Adelaide.

He still calls himself a turner, but in reality he is now a power carver who some time ago mastered the lathe before mastering other power tools. The reverse of Chris Pye, for example, a carver who's now happy to use the lathe to make himself those functional objects to be carved that just happen to be round. In both cases the functionality of the object produced can be diluted to the point where it becomes more art than craft but neither would refer to it as a sculpture, I believe.

The relation between turning and carving was reflected in the time dedicated to the various power tools, the lathe being no more than 30% of the total.

The most used was this carbide burr King Arthur Tools (http://www.katools.com/shop/tungsten-carbide-disc-coarse-p-59.html). Some in the audience already had it, many of the others now want to buy it. :)

Jim Carroll used to import it but now does not seem to have it in his catalog any longer. Any reason for it, Jim? I am not keen on paying $60 postage for a $37 item, but if there is no other way...

[kcam]

Carbrasive discs used to be made at Sawtell NSW, previously available through Arbortech (some time ago) but have now moved to India and I believe are available through www.kutzalldirect.com at a reasonable price including freight.....Kerry

[Jim Carroll]

Frank we have the Saburr (http://cws.au.com/shop/category/-saburr-tooth-rotary-tools) discs in stock

[Frank&Earnest]

Thanks Jim. I have seen those, and because you still carry KA products I assume you have sound commercial reasons for not importing this specific KA product any more. We have seen it work and it comes highly recommended. As there were talks of organising a bulk buy to share the postage, I thought it was only fair to give you the right of first refusal.

[Hardenfast]

Frank we have the Saburr (http://cws.au.com/shop/category/-saburr-tooth-rotary-tools) discs in stock

Yes, I bought some of the Saburr Tooth wheels from Jim (and then some more) and they are brilliant. I don't count myself as a proficient carver by any means, but my FIL is - having spent the last 45 years as a professional woodcarver and rocking horse maker.

He is a true and wondous hand-carver, and has gradually converted to about 50/50 hand carving to power carving as he gets older. He has tried the Arbortech, Lancelot and Kutzall products - as well as various abrasive wheels, but once he used the 100mm Saburr Tooth wheels he threw "the other ####' away.

They are a beautifully balanced, full carbide cutter available in different grades & profiles and they remove the timber with amazing speed & accuracy. We also purchased a few of their 50mm wheels from Jim and we use these in the Proxxon Long Neck Grinder for more detailed work.

Only trouble for Jim is - they seem to last forever. Bill uses his virtually every day and they seem to be still cutting well after 12 months+ use. Give them a try, Frank.

Wayne

[kcam]

Thanks Jim, I have been using the small discs for some now and often asked where to get them from, great to know that you carry them.....Kerry

[Frank&Earnest]

...
Give them a try, Frank.

Wayne

Well, not as good as actually seeing it work, but you do make a compelling case. Thanks Wayne, I'll give them a go. It would be nice to have them both for comparison. I will be using them as replacement for the Arbortech mini-grinder.

Would you have any suggestion for a chipping (as compared to rasping) alternative to the 100mm Arbortech? (Terry used the same #### expression about it...)

[TTIT]

Carbrasive discs used to be made at Sawtell NSW, previously available through Arbortech (some time ago) but have now moved to India and I believe are available through www.kutzalldirect.com (http://www.kutzalldirect.com) at a reasonable price including freight.....KerryBugga! :C . I bought some from the factory door there some years ago and even got a tour of the plant - at that time they were one of only a handful of manufacturers on the planet so it seemed pretty special.
Won't be long and the only thing this country will be producing is holes in the ground :~

[Frank&Earnest]

I am confused now. They all look pretty much the same, are you saying that the brand changes but they are all made in the same place? It would not surprise me a bit...

As regards

"Won't be long and the only thing this country will be producing is holes in the ground"

look at the 1870 Yearbook: Exports: coal. Imports: convicts. What's new? :D

[woodspinner]

Hi

We can get all the Saburr Tooth Products here in the Uk if you would like to email me I would be only to pleased to see if some thing could be worked out to enable anyone to get these products if it was cost effective:2tsup:

[Jim Carroll]

Well, not as good as actually seeing it work, but you do make a compelling case. Thanks Wayne, I'll give them a go. It would be nice to have them both for comparison. I will be using them as replacement for the Arbortech mini-grinder.

Would you have any suggestion for a chipping (as compared to rasping) alternative to the 100mm Arbortech? (Terry used the same #### expression about it...)


Frank you do not use these as a replacement for your arbortech cutters.

You use the arbortech to take away the bulk material then use the Saburrr discs to refine and blend the shape.

In Terrys case he may have used the discs for doing some of his decorative work so the arbortech is not needed.

For those doing larger sculptural peices or burl bowls the TCT arbortech is great for the bulk removal then using the Saburrs for the rest.
For those that went to the Melbourne wood show they would have seen Shane Wolf using both of these to do the work he does on his burl bowls.

[Frank&Earnest]

Thanks Jim, that's why I was asking whether there are disks 50mm for the mini grinder and 100mm for the full size grinder that do the same job as the Arbortech wheels but work for longer. I have only started using them and can't really tell, but TS was scathing about their quality, saying that they get blunt as soon as you touch the wood. Just checking!

So he is using the 50mm KA coarse as a replacement for the mini grinder Arbortech wheel but you are right, he can do so because he uses it only for light work. Which one is the Saburr equivalent that can be trusted to do the same type of work as the KA in question? In the photo the profiles appear flatter than the KA and Kutzall disks, is that so and does it change much the way they work?

[Frank&Earnest]

Hi

We can get all the Saburr Tooth Products here in the Uk if you would like to email me I would be only to pleased to see if some thing could be worked out to enable anyone to get these products if it was cost effective:2tsup:

Thanks for the offer Woodspinner. The idea is to support our local importers and Jim has those, the question was about KA products he no longer imports.

[Jim Carroll]

Frank it all depends on how much you want to remove or how good a job you do with the arbortech that dictates which wheel you should use.

Also the finish you are after and how much sanding you still need to do.

Some need all three wheels some get away with the medium wheel.

[Frank&Earnest]

Well, I'll suck and see. I have ordered the coarsest wheel and will work my way down if necessary. Thanks.

[kcam]

:U Frank, in addition to a burr disc I find that a very flexible sanding disc made from an old inner tube valve is a great for achieving a good result. I have included in the attached photo others that have been turned to suit various situations whether it be for turning or sculpting. The velcro hook is stuck on with heat resistant contact adhesive.
The carving on the small bowl is the first past using 120 grit paper next is 240 then 320 using the sanding disc only and then finished by hand.http://sanding disc P1000090

[kcam]

http:///Users/kerrycameron/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Modified/2010/20:11:2010/P1000090.JPG Trying again with the photo hope that it works this time.

[Frank&Earnest]

No joy with the picture, Kcam, but I got the idea: it's a DIY sanding pad. Jim sells good ones already made . :wink: The sticking of velcro hooks to supports that suit you is a good idea, you can do that also with artist knives to reach fiddly spots. They work very well. At the moment I am looking for something that chomps through wood, I think I got sanding covered (but If I can't repair it, I will need a new flexible shaft :(()

Has anybody tried the carbatec carving miner?

[DJ’s Timber]

http:///Users/kerrycameron/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Modified/2010/20:11:2010/P1000090.JPG Trying again with the photo hope that it works this time.

You have to upload the photo to the forum first, not point to one on your hard drive. The following link shows you how to upload photos :H

Posting Pictures to Your Post - Woodwork Forums (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=78760)

[kcam]

:2tsup:Thanks for your advice should get it right next time....still coming to grips with the site navigation...Kerry

[Frank&Earnest]

OK, I sucked it (for 5 minutes only). The Saburr disk meets my expectations, it offers the level of aggressiveness and control I was looking for. It is good for shaping but leaves a reasonably smooth finish. For anything finer a sanding pad would be easier to use, IMHO.

The coarsest Saburr and the coarsest KA would be virtually indistinguishable were it not for the colour. The cast of the Saburr is a bit rougher, there is a noticeable discontinuity of the pattern on a diametre line. There is no brand and no indication of where it is made. Maybe they all come from the same place, Vern? :wink:

Time will tell if the durability is as good as you claim, Wayne. :wink:

Maybe I should have opened this thread in the carvers' forum... :)

[woodspinner]

Ken & Earnest yes I am sorry about this but I didnt realise this fact until later replies. But Hey! at least we have introduced our selves and I will look for the other products anyway. I have the same problem with my wifes pyrography supplies many of the decent products WE have to ship in from the US.

keep well
Brian:2tsup: