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View Full Version : Initial impressions - Crown Pro-PM 1 bowl gouge



NeilS
30th Nov 2010, 03:59 PM
Probably not of interest to most turners on the forum, but shared here in case this info is of use to someone.

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->I recently purchased a Crown Pro-PM 1” bowl gouge. I needed a roughing gouge for larger diameter bowls. The Thompson ” bowl gouge is OK for this but is still a bit slow when roughing out larger bowls. The extra ” over the ” doesn’t sound like much but is quite a bit when you get to use it. For example here are 1”, ”, ” and 3/8” gouges side by side.


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Doug Thompson doesn’t make a 1” bowl gouge (I would have gone with his if he did) and, as far as I know, Crown are one of the few makers who do make one in this size. Of course, P&N does make a 1 ” spindle roughing gouge, but I would have to modify mine too much for just bowl work and then it would not be so useful for spindle work. I also have a few big continental gouges, which are OK on the outside of bowls but not for me on the inside.

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The flute on the Crown gouge is more open than many 'V' flutes, it’s half way between a ‘U” and deep ‘V’ profile. I’m hoping this profile may make it more suited for rough turning larger bowls. The fuller flute profile can take a larger shaving without having to turn on the wings.

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I've only turned a few larger bowl so far with this gouge and will need more time to give it a thorough workout and assessment, however, my initial impressions are that it is well finished (including the polish on the flute), is made from quality powdered steel that holds its edge longer than M2 HSS, and has a suitable amount of steel (weight) in the blade for its size.

One thing I don't like about the gouge is its handle... it's too short for a gouge of this size (I like the handles to be twice the length of the new blade) and it’s too fat for my hands (I have a 8" span). To my way of thinking the handle is back to front, the smallest diameter is at the wrong end of the handle. I prefer it the other way round as shown here with the bull oak one in comparison.



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As received, the gouge did not fit into my gouge jig and I had to grind a whisker off the top of the flutes to get it to fit. One consideration if you are thinking of getting a 1” gouge. You may need to check your jig first if you want to keep all of your flute height intact.


Otherwise, from the bit I’ve used it so far, I think I'm going to like this gouge. More time and use will tell.

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rsser
1st Dec 2010, 07:24 AM
An interesting read. Thanks Neil.

ticklingmedusa
1st Dec 2010, 04:20 PM
Hmm,
so size does matter.
I'd like to try one.
:2tsup:

rsser
1st Dec 2010, 04:25 PM
A catch might lift you out of your seat TM :D

ticklingmedusa
1st Dec 2010, 04:52 PM
I may need to get the old kryptonite chair out of the barn :D

Jim Carroll
1st Dec 2010, 05:21 PM
Neil how are they measuring the tool.
Aus way is by bar stock size and UK generally by flute size.

hughie
2nd Dec 2010, 08:41 AM
A catch might lift you out of your seat TM :D

Yes, it occurred to me as well. :U Still its a good review and I look forward to the conclusion. As my biggest is also a Thompson 5/8. :2tsup:

rsser
2nd Dec 2010, 10:24 AM
Why the swept back wings Neil on a roughing tool?

RETIRED
2nd Dec 2010, 02:57 PM
Otherwise they can catch.

SPINDLE roughing tools (of the U shape) are generally ground straight across and should NEVER BE USED on a bowl.

Hence the swept back wings on bigger bowl roughing gouges.

rsser
2nd Dec 2010, 03:19 PM
Yes, it's important to emphasise this for newbies at least as far as spindle roughing gouges go.

But Neil's talking about a bowl roughing tool.

A ladyfinger grind (think you might call them thumb grinds ) will do fine for a roughing tool, in my book. Swept back wings again in my book are ground to give you finishing options like shear scraping, shear cutting etc.

RETIRED
2nd Dec 2010, 04:13 PM
Yes, it's important to emphasise this for newbies at least as far as spindle roughing gouges go.

But Neil's talking about a bowl roughing tool. Yep, I know but in that size if you don't bring the wings back they may catch on the inside of a bowl.

A ladyfinger grind (think you might call them thumb grinds ) there is a distinct difference between a thumbnail grind to a ladyfinger grind. I think this is where a lot of people make mistakes because the terminology has been stuffed up. will do fine for a roughing tool, in my book. Thumb nail grinds are used on all my roughing gouges except the "U" shaped which are ground straight across because they actually are more useful like that.

Swept back wings again in my book are ground to give you finishing options like shear scraping, shear cutting etc.Swept back wings expose more of a cutting edge to the timber in roughing out as well.

With my 1/2" (Pommy) 5/8" (Yankee) bowl gouge ground back to a ladyfinger grind I can take a 3/4" wide cut in green timber.

As you say a Ladyfinger grind does give you the options for finishing but a lot of the time I use a real (continental) 3/4" thumb nail spindle gouge for finishing.

rsser
2nd Dec 2010, 04:43 PM
Terms are misleading outside of the community that shares them which is a bugger cos what kind of community is an online one?!

Perhaps you could post some pics , showing the diff btwn ladyfinger and thumbnail grinds?

And esp of a real (continental) 3/4" thumb nail spindle gouge for finishing I think I know what you're referring to and would agree for bowl outsides but ....

BTW, I didn't say a ladyfinger grind will give more options for finishing.

RETIRED
2nd Dec 2010, 04:46 PM
Swept back is Ladyfinger imho.

rsser
2nd Dec 2010, 05:04 PM
Beg to disagree.

In plan it's barely rounded over on the top of the wings.

Called ladyfinger cos it looks like a female fingertip; the ground wings are the cuticles, the flute is the nail.

Well, those are my terms and I'm sticking to them, short of acrylic extensions on offer down at the local fingernail parlour ;-}

efgee88
2nd Dec 2010, 08:53 PM
Been having a manicure, Ern?

NeilS
3rd Dec 2010, 01:43 PM
Neil how are they measuring the tool.
Aus way is by bar stock size and UK generally by flute size.

It's made in the UK and offered (http://www.crownhandtools.ltd.uk/products/bowlgouges.asp) as a 1" gouge, so you'd think that would be flute width, BUT no, it is in fact 1" OD .

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I've given up on using UK flute measurements as they rarely relate to anything that you can actually measure. Some people say it's the measurement across the flute, others say it is the distance between one flute and the outside of the bar on the other side. In my experience nothing relates to the claimed UK size.

For example here is a Ellsworth Sig gouge from Crown that is supposed to be 1/2" or 13mm.

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So , it's 11mm across the flute, 13.5mm measured by the alternative way of measuring the flute and 16mm/5/8" OD. I'd call that a 5/8" bowl gouge myself.

Looks like the the UK sometimes measures bowl gouges by bar size and at other times by something else.

I'm confused enough without trying to use a measurement system that doesn't relate to anything sensible and confusing me further...:U
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NeilS
3rd Dec 2010, 05:05 PM
Why the swept back wings Neil on a roughing tool?

The quick answer is I'm comfortable now with using the same bowl gouge profile for both roughing and finishing cuts, besides having only a limited space in the tool rack and some limit on the budget...:rolleyes:

Used a straight across grind or slightly ground back profile on my old P&N 'U' bowl gouges for roughing cuts, but those P&Ns didn't produce a very satisfactory swept back grind for doing finishing cuts so I gradually migrated to 'V' flutes, when they became available, which I find more versatile. With the 'V' profile I also find that I have more option of how aggressive a cut I can make without changing gouges.

I've used a modified grind on a 1<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->” P&N roughing gouge for doing things that I won't mention here, but it's an expensive tool that is designed for and does a good job as a spindle roughing gouge and decided that it is better left with a straight grind for that dedicated purpose.

I'm not qualified to comment on what the various grinds should be called so won't venture there.
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