Assessing old horizontal mill

[Bryan]

I know there's a few south aussies on the forum so I'm taking a risk, but here goes. There's an old hoz mill on ebay and it's in SA! :o Ebay link (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180595703426&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT) (Buzz off, I saw it first! And anyway it's 3 phase :) )

I'm thinking if the table runs true (flat) then it can be made to produce a flat surface and might be worth messing with. What would be the best approach to assessing it? Given that we're talking about a pre-sale inspection and time and equipment would be limited. If I took my dial indicator and mag base, plonked it on the column and ran the table across it... ? I'm thinking that will just tell me how hacked the table surface is. Is there a better way? Am I even asking the right question? Is it a complete waste of time? It's a two hour drive so I won't bother if it's got no potential.

Machine lust is driving me nuts. Flat surfacing is the capability I'm most lacking, and shapers just don't seem to come up in SA! :(

Thanks.

[Dave J]

Hi Brian,
I like your "Buzz of line",LOL
I think I have it's brother only without the swivel table, don't ask me what it's like because I haven't got it running and only bought it because it was cheap ($200) with the shaper. I think that one is over priced, but I don't live down your way and know the local prices.
I think you will find the motor in the box has been fitted by someone because these where line shaft machines originally.
A way to check it would be to nip up (not tight) the gibs on the X and Y axis then wind the table and the saddle back and forth and see if it gets tighter on the ends, this will tell you it has wear in the centre.
Not sure about that one, but my out board arbour support bearing has a nut that can be adjusted if it gets wear.These don't run roller bearings, they run bronze ones. You could take the support off and put an indicator on the spindle nose while pushing and pulling on the end of the arbour to see how, if any slop is in the bearings.
Mine has a few gears in the head that are just meant to be greased and a clutch which is a simple metal to metal taper to taper setup as they where line shaft machines. The table power feed runs off a belt from the spindle to a small gear box and the coolant pump runs off the same thing.

I could post a few pictures of mine if it would help in any way.

Dave

[Bryan]

No that's ok, thanks Dave. Don't want the locals getting too excited. Probably a heap of junk anyway. :wink:

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Machine lust is driving me nuts. Flat surfacing is the capability I'm most lacking, and shapers just don't seem to come up in SA! :(


Haha.... Don't worry, you definitely aren't alone on that one. I think this forum is full of people who have succumbed to machine lust... Personally, I'm most after a lathe at the moment, but plenty of other machines could tempt me at any given moment!

[Stustoys]

How flat a surface are you after Bryan?
I wouldn't have thought a Hoz mill could cut a very flat surface. It could cut a flat face. If you just bolt some steel to the bed and run a cutter over it, it will be a line of scallops(spelling). How bad this effect is I can't say as I have only ever used a Hoz mill to cut pipe lol.


Stuart

[Dave J]

Hi Brian,
Not trying to put you off,
If your after flat surfacing capability, you should really hold off for a shaper. While horizontal mills will do this, the cutters and exspecialy slab mills can be really expensive, a new one would cost more than the mill itself. Also milling on a horizontal with a collet chuck is awkward because it's hard to see whats going on, I have had to use a mirror sometimes to see.
Tooling for a shaper is only $4-$5 each and can be resharpened at home and last a long time. They say a stick of HSS will remove a ton of metal.

Dave

[Dave J]

How flat a surface are you after Bryan?
I wouldn't have thought a Hoz mill could cut a very flat surface. It could cut a flat face. If you just bolt some steel to the bed and run a cutter over it, it will be a line of scallops(spelling). How bad this effect is I can't say as I have only ever used a Hoz mill to cut pipe lol.


Stuart

A spiral cutter should eliminate that effect.

Dave

[Stustoys]

Ummm I wont have thought so. It may reduce it but the tip of the tooth would still be moving up and down relative to the flat surface you are trying to make. Like the flutes on an endmill. Of course the effect would be less as the Dia of the cutter. I also reserve the right to be completely wrong. ;)
Stuart

[Dave J]

Here are some pictures of a spiral milling cutter in action. They are from a thread of Randyc here
An Unusual Horizontal Milling Machine VERY LONG Post - The Home Shop Machinist & Machinist's Workshop BBS (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=44954)

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154974&stc=1&d=1291555129

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154975&stc=1&d=1291555129

[Quote]In the above case, the workpiece was 4 x 2 x 1/2 inches of hot-rolled steel. The DOC was 1/8 inch and one cubic inch of material was removed in a single pass in 45 seconds leaving a surface finish of close to 32 microinches, mainly due to the very high helix angle and the number of teeth on the cutter.[Unquote]

Dave

[pipeclay]

Do you intend to use the Mill in the Horizontal position with Arbor for your surfacing opperations or use a Face cutter in the Spindle.
In my opinion the Mill would be able to do what you require.
The results would be influenced by the size of the workpiece.
If the workpiece was larger than your Slab cutter there is a strong possability that you could end up with a step or machine mark on your surface,
Also the same chance with the Face cutter in the Horizontal spindle but alignment in this plane I believe would be easier to setup.

[Bryan]

Finish is nice. But it's not necessary. A hand scraped surface ends up as a series of high spots. As long as they're even and flat overall it works. I'm not expecting to mill that kind of sliding surface, just things like mounting plates that bolt to something.

But I reckon that thing is bound to be clapped out and end up frustrating me and costing more than it's worth. I've had that kind of 'bargain' before.

[matthew_g]

Sheesh.....Take the punt, Worst case is you get it home clean it up and sell it on for a profit.:)

[Dave J]

After finding the shaper, it looks like he will be probably be leaving it.
I found after getting the HM 52 that the cutters I can afford for horizontal are either old stock or second hand and most need sharpening. Other than slitting saws, new milling cutters are out of the question for me.

Dave

[Bryan]

I blow my nose at it. I fart in its general direction. :harhar:

Edit: But thanks for the interest anyway.

[matthew_g]

After finding the shaper, it looks like he will be probably be leaving it.
I found after getting the HM 52 that the cutters I can afford for horizontal are either old stock or second hand and most need sharpening. Other than slitting saws, new milling cutters are out of the question for me.

Dave


I have found plenty of relatively cheap horizontal cutters on evilbay, Many I have purchased are from evilbay US and I have found postage quite cheap, Alot of sellers sell bundles of up to 20 cutters for between $10-$50 depending on who bids of course and post flat rate at $40...I have also found Greys Online to be a valuable sorce for machine tools..
Just a couple of avenues...Might help:2tsup:

[Dave J]

Thanks for that, I have a good stack of cutters here that I have picked up over the years for reasonably cheap, but like all tools I am always on the look out for more.lol
The only reason I brought up the prices of cutters was to let Bryan know they can be expensive over a shaper if it's your only way of machining flat surfaces.

Dave