Universal tool & cutter grinders

[steran50]

HI ALL:),

I have noticed that quite a few of these Herless Tool and Cutter Grinders are Popping upon Ebay in the last couple of Months. Here is Links to two of them Universal Tool & Cutter Grinder (eBay item 320636879794 end time 10-Jan-11 13:32:51 AEDST) : Industrial (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Universal-Tool-Cutter-Grinder-/320636879794?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4aa77283b2) and

Tool and cutter grinder (eBay item 250749074837 end time 29-Jan-11 08:24:37 AEDST) : Industrial (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Tool-and-cutter-grinder-/250749074837?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3a61cf3d95) .

The first Picture is Mine that I bought just before XMAS for a bargain:D at $800.00. The second Picture is of My Boss's that He bought a Month before mine for double the Price. I still have to get Mine picked up. I have been thinking of getting or trying to make something like the last Picture for doing the side of the End Mills & Slot Drills. What do You all think ?.
All the best for the New Year.

[Anorak Bob]

That's not fair Stewart.

I least you'll be able to grind your own spindle. I might be wrong but that looks like an air bearing, or air suspended movable spindle in the grinding fixture.

A neat bit of gear.

Bob.

[China]

You can also use a collet chuck in the work head for end mills on that of type grinder

[steran50]

HI:),

You can also use a collet chuck in the work head for end mills on that of type grinder

Yes I am aware of that. I know mine has Collets with it, so I am assuming it comes with the Collet Chuck as well. The Collet Chuck though will only allows You to do the ends of the End Mills. What I want to be able to do is to Grind the End Mill Flutes (side of End Mill) as well like in the first Part of this Video YouTube - Darex E-90 End Mill Sharpener .
I have been looking at these too (see Pictures). The Novatech Air Spindle (1st Pic), I would have to make somehow:hmmm: as it is not affordable. The D-Bit End Mill attatchment (2nd Pic) is affordable though. I need to Research more. I was actually all set to make a Quorn, I just ordered all the Parts. Once I get My Tool and Cutter Grinder I will be Selling the Quorn Kit.

[old_fella]

Why would you want to grind the sides of the cutter unless you want to cut undersize?

[Dave J]

Stewart
You got a great buy their, once you get it and get up and running it will save you a heap and will always have sharp cutters on hand.


Why would you want to grind the sides of the cutter unless you want to cut undersize?

They get blunt and need sharpening as well. They would only cut under size if you where slotting to full width, but slotting comes out better if each side is done separate by using a smaller cutter than the slot.

Dave

[new_guy90]

we have one of those tool and cutter grinders at work i think its only ever been used once in the past year when i started it was covered in oil and crap i cleaned it all up once when i had nothing better to do i found it rather basic with a seemingly flimsy table and no protection no the slides from the harsh grinding dust made from normal use on the plus side i do like the design and with care of its should be the best alternative to the heaver cutter grinders on the used market

you got a good buy does it have the cabinet coolant tank and powered spindle?

[China]

If you want my opinion I would build the Quorn and sell the one you have.

[old_fella]

They get blunt and need sharpening as well. They would only cut under size if you where slotting to full width, but slotting comes out better if each side is done separate by using a smaller cutter than the slot.

Dave

I seem to get a better finish on the sides cutting keyways in one pass with the correct size cutter for the key than doing it in in a couple of pass's with a smaller diameter one.

[GDD]

If you want my opinion I would build the Quorn and sell the one you have.

If you want my opinion, its the opposite of China's.

I have built a quorn. It was a great project and I'm glad I did it, but I almost never use it now because its so much trouble to set it up for anything.

Graham

[China]

GDD, that maybe so, I was not going to say this so as not to offend steran50, but those chinese things are rubbish with apologies to steran50

[Stustoys]

Hi China
What makes you so sure its Chinese? I would have guess Taiwanese.
Are the quorn castings still available? I had a bit of a google and I could find them.
Stuart

[Anorak Bob]

Stuart,

If you meant couldn't find them, Hobby Mechanics in Brisbane sell the casting kits for the Quorn-

Quorn Universal Tool and Cutter Grinder (http://www.hobbymechanics.com.au/products/Quorn-Tool-%26-Cutter-Grinder-Complete-Mark-I-Set.html)

Bob.

[Stustoys]

Indeed I did Bob. guess it has to stay there now lol
"set" I googled "kit" because thats what comes up when you enter Quorn grinder"

Thanks
Stuart

[Woodlee]

Herless was pretty good stuff , I had a small radial arm drill and a 9" swing bench lathe that was in a workshop that I worked in a few years back .It was made in Taiwan ,and sold by Herless Machine tool co here in Australia .
Herless was bought out by ,you guessed it,,,,,, H&F.

There is still a herless mill drill at the base where I work now ,and it gets used fairly frequently and is still in good condition.

Kev.

[Dave J]

Looking at the price of the kit, Stewart got a great deal on a complete running machine.:2tsup:

I have heard good things about the quorn, but $410 ( then having to build it) and ending up with much less of a machine mass wise, I would take Stuarts machine.

Dave

[Stustoys]

Might want to scroll down a little Dave ;)
$410 without drawings
Stuart

[Dave J]

Thanks Stuart, I didn't scroll down after seeing the first price I didn't bother.
$609 or $1019, that makes these Taiwanese/Chinese second hand machines look even cheaper.

Dave

[China]

I may stand corrected they may be Chinese or they may be Taiwanses either way they are rubbish and yes I am talking from experience

[steran50]

HI ALL:),
Quote - old fella - 'Why would you want to grind the sides of the cutter unless you want to cut undersize?'
As Dave J has said, the Flutes on the length of the End Mills get Blunt as well overtime. As for Cutting Undersize, I remember reading somewhere that Slot Drills are a True Size ie 16mm is 16mm. However End Mills are only a Nominal Size ie 16mm might be 15.94mm.

Quote - Dave J - 'They get blunt and need sharpening as well. They would only cut under size if you where slotting to full width, but slotting comes out better if each side is done separate by using a smaller cutter than the slot.'
This is the Correct method to use to Cut a Keyway Slot.

Quote - new guy90 - 'you got a good buy does it have the cabinet coolant tank and powered spindle?'
Yes they have a Coolant Tank in the Cabinet. A Powered Spindle - Only the double Ended One for the Grinding Wheels. It doesn't have a Powered Spindle with a small Lathe Chuck is thats what You meant. I am sure though that a Small Powered Spindle attatchment could be made for it though.

Quote - China - 'If you want my opinion I would build the Quorn and sell the one you have.
:no::no::no: No way, Sure the Quorn is a Good Project and a Versatile Unit. As GDD said they are time Consuming to set up. The Grinder I bought can do Larger Items that the Quorn.

Quote - China - 'GDD, that maybe so, I was not going to say this so as not to offend steran50, but those chinese things are rubbish with apologies to steran50'
No Offence Taken. Herless Machinery is Taiwanese. The Hafco Machinery is mostly Chinese, but some of it is Taiwanese. Also I do not believe that they are 'Rubbish' as You put it. Sure they are not be best Tool & Cutter Grinder, but they are quite adequate.

Quote - Dave J - 'Looking at the price of the kit, Stewart got a great deal on a complete running machine.:2tsup:'
I certainly did at that. I do not know what the Herless ones were worth New, but the Hafco ones were $3,995.00.

[China]

Ok maybe I'm too fussy it boils down to weather you want a accurate machine in which they are sadly lacking and how long you want it too last again they are sadly lacking

[.RC.]

My local machinery supplier just sold a very good condition very late model Cinci #2 TC grinder for $10 000.

Just to give you a heads up on what a large industrial TC grinder costs.

[Toggy]

That makes me appreciate paying $1305 for my Elliot No 5 Universal T&C.

Ken

[.RC.]

I thought someone might have picked up this on on ebay.... This is the third time is has been listed

Tool and Cutter Grinder (eBay item 170592068527 end time 23-Jan-11 11:00:50 AEDST) : Industrial (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170592068527)

[Stustoys]

Sometimes its a shame Australia is so big. Anyone freighted something like that interstate? I want it. But my guess is it would add 100% to the price at least to get it here.

Talking about diamond wheels on steel again. I recall people saying something about the carbon in the steel burning the diamond and you shouldn't do it. Is that only if you don't use coolant? Because a mate who machines flywheels and a few years back he got his first diamond wheel(I think it was in the $400 range) and he loves the things "Cut fast, last forever". Which has left me a little confused.

Stuart

[Big Shed]

Stu, just hop in the car bring your trailer and go pick it up, 1700km + a nights' accommodation will do it.

When I lived in Adelaide I have gone to Melbourne a few times to pick something up.

Edit:

I seem to recall someone posting about a transport company that has internet quotes and does pallet pick up and delivery.
Should have bookmarked that company, did a search and can't find it now. Not that long ago.

[Bryan]

Stu, just hop in the car bring your trailer and go pick it up, 1700km + a nights' accommodation will do it.


That's about what I did when I picked up the shaper. But my load was only 1200 kg, approx 2t with trailer. And I wouldn't have wanted any more. That grinder is 2t on its own. You'd be looking at a gross closer to 3t. You'd need the right trailer and the right tug. Also he implies he can't load it because he says "NOTE - weighs about 2 tonne, will need crane truck for pickup." So it's a headache. But Stu, if you want it, try and find a way. If it doesn't come together at least you'll have no regrets.

[.RC.]

Sometimes its a shame Australia is so big. Anyone freighted something like that interstate? I want it. But my guess is it would add 100% to the price at least to get it here.




Probably around $100 if it is on a pallet..

Freight from Sydney to Melbourne is dirt cheap..

[China]

I bought a cincinatti no. 2 $4500 three years ago from Melbourne by the time it was on my shed floor the freight and moving cost $1200,

[eskimo]

what all opinions of the Bonelle TCG ...any one built that?

[Bryan]

(Sorry to but in Eskimo) Is this thing any good? : Tool-and-cutter-grinder (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Tool-and-cutter-grinder-/250749074837?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3a61cf3d95)

[welder]

i was talking to the guy in sydney about the tool grinder and he said he will take $500 without the coolant pump.

[China]

Byan my opinion is no and not at that price

[eskimo]

(Sorry to but in Eskimo) Is this thing any good? : Tool-and-cutter-grinder (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Tool-and-cutter-grinder-/250749074837?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3a61cf3d95)


now where would I hide that Bryan

looks like we have been talked out of it anyway by China

[Bryan]

I figured it was overpriced. What would it be worth? And does it have any obvious limitations?

Eskimo I'm sure we could cram it into your shed somewhere. Then I could just pop over and sharpen my end mills every now and then. :D

[China]

If you are looking at items in the $1500 range the go and find a Cincinatti no 2 or one of the clones e.g. Macson, makino, Repco, you will get a machine that is a thousnd times better.

[.RC.]

This is what mine looks like... Came with an air bearing, radius attachment and universal vice plus extra grinding wheels.. Small but useful...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/OzRinger/th_chevalierTCgriner004Custom.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v606/OzRinger/chevalierTCgriner004Custom.jpg)