What Glue?????????????????

[Islander]

Hi everybody

I was in my shed this morning glueing up some blanks. I used some frothing glue which usually creates some longer cleaning up procedure. I have made some picks to pick out residue. With the tighter fits I use medium CA. Again one has to clean up the inside of the tube but I just wait till it's dry and brittle and the cleanup is as easy as pie.

I started wondering what every body else uses?:?

Your comments are appreciated

[Ironwood]

I only use 24hr high strength epoxy eg; Araldite. never had a problem.

I did use 5minute araldite on one pen and letter opener set once, because it had to be done by the next day.

[seriola]

I only started turning pens a few months ago and almost exclusively use medium CA. I have tried thick CA and 2 part epoxy a couple of times but just find the medium easy and reliable.

[dai sensei]

I use medium CA on timber blanks on cheap kits, anything else I use Epoxy.

To minimise clean up, I use dental wax sheet to seal the entry end of the tube, and a push cone at the other end (like the tip of those large silicon tubes). Let it set for 0.5 hour, then remove wax by pushing from other end with punch.

[HazzaB]

Hey Islander,

After losing a couple of very expensive blanks, I use 24hr Expoxy Araldite, I will use CA on cheaper kits but never again on an expensive kit. If somebody needs a pen in a Hurry, Hurry time is 1 week from now on.

HazzaB

[seriola]

Are the problems with the CA likely to show up after the pens have been in use for some time or mainly during the turning process? So far I have had no trouble, probably made and given away about 40 pens, 7 or 8 different types. I do leave minimum overnight drying and usually 24 hours.

I have asked the rellies and friends in Canada and here to let me know of any problems, maybe they are just too kind to tell me :D

[HazzaB]

Hey There,

Seriola the main problems occur whilst turning, usually the last cut before sanding:doh:,
I have also had 1 (only one) fail after I gave it too a client, I don't know for sure, but I think that it was left on the Dash in a 40* day, but the timber cracked away from the fittings, I replaced it and haven't had any other problems.

HazzaB

[Sawdust Maker]

I use Vise (from Bunnies) on all wood pens - it's a polyurethane
on acrylics I tend to use 24 hour 2 part epoxy
sometimes use the 5 minute stuff but only if in a real hurry to get the pen done.

I use play doh in each end of the tubes and push out when the glue is dry

BTW I've had a couple of instances where the frothing action of the polyurethane has pushed some of the tube out of the blank, a real PITB but not enough to change to 2 part epoxy for everything. I seem to get epoxy everywhere :doh:

[seriola]

I have an unopened bottle of Vise, might open it and give it a go. Sounds like I should leave plenty of blank until after glue has dried while experimenting though.:2tsup:

[Sawdust Maker]

Oh
It only pushes out when it is a one off, really important glue up :doh:

[Islander]

Hi all

This is a better response than I thought. I started thinking that I am in to much of a hurry. I have used Vice, thin and medium CA. I have 3 bottles of medium CA in the fridge bought on a special. It is staying in the fridge as I have had a few pens completed and in the presentation box for a few weeks and then the timber let loose from the brass. I have done everything right as I have researched pen making in depth (learnt through heaps of mistakes and the help of this and other forums) but can now only think that the timber absorbs to much CA to get a good bond. Thank heavens these are only my display pens. I am going back to vice and make peace with the cleanup process. I am also going to try 2 pack epoxy and see how I go with that. The excercise has been successful. If you want a long lasting pen hassle free it takes drying time and elbow grease and patience. I tried looking for shortcuts which turned out to be detours where you got stuck anyway.:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

Thank you all

[Islander]

I use medium CA on timber blanks on cheap kits, anything else I use Epoxy.

To minimise clean up, I use dental wax sheet to seal the entry end of the tube, and a push cone at the other end (like the tip of those large silicon tubes). Let it set for 0.5 hour, then remove wax by pushing from other end with punch.

Hi Dai Sensei

Where does one get dental wax sheets. Do you have to be a dentist?:B

[Sawdust Maker]

I use one of those craft knives for cleanup of the vice froth
I'm also thinking a little bit of wax polish (ubeaut's best) on the inside of the tube may make the task of cleaning inside easier - even with the play doh a little invariably gets in

[Islander]

Hi Sawdust Maker,

I also use a craft knife. I also use an old punch where I have used the hammered out bit to create a moon shaped lip. I first cut off the excess on the outside of one end of the tube and then push with the puch from that side the other side out. Works like a dream as the halfmoon shape scrapes along the inside of the tube. I am going to see which pens I make the most of and then make some dedicated puches (pusher outers) for each size of brass tube.

Thanks for replying.:2tsup:

Islander

[mkypenturner]

hi roger
hows it going i only ever use araldite either 5 min for only a pen or 2 but super strength if im doing more and dont need to turn them the same day

[dai sensei]

Hi Dai Sensei

Where does one get dental wax sheets. Do you have to be a dentist?:B

I got it from Ainsworth Dental Company see here (http://ainsworthdental.com.au/catalogue/Investo-Modelling-Wax-500g.html)

[cookie48]

I only use poly glue. To get residue out of tube I use a 5mm drill in my Drill press and carefully remove it. To ensure I only take glue out I use a spare mandrel rod to check.

[wm460]

I got it from Ainsworth Dental Company see here (http://ainsworthdental.com.au/catalogue/Investo-Modelling-Wax-500g.html)

What is the cost?

[bowerbird]

Hi Islander,

I use PVC for my pen tubes... at least that's what I think it is... had some stuff given to me, the pvc is in an unlabelled bottle.

I started turning pens about 18 months ago, no one has complained! Actually, I receive a really good rap from someone in the UK! So I'll keep turning pens and other stuff.

If anyone has had any bad experiences with pvc not holding tubes in the pen blanks, please let me know. :)

Cheers,

BB

[tdrumnut]

I use GPW 15 min epoxy for all pens, the only failures I had (early on) were me rushing and not making sure there was plenty of glue in and on the barrel, I now use a cotton bud to coat the inside of the blank and put more on the tube twisting as it goes in, and use blue tac in the end of the tubes and pick it out when dry. Even though I use 15 min epoxy I never turn till the next day to make sure of full cure, and I have not lost one blank since using this method. I also sand & wipe clean the tubes prior to glue up.

[bowerbird]

I use GPW 15 min epoxy for all pens, the only failures I had (early on) were me rushing and not making sure there was plenty of glue in and on the barrel, I now use a cotton bud to coat the inside of the blank and put more on the tube twisting as it goes in, and use blue tac in the end of the tubes and pick it out when dry. Even though I use 15 min epoxy I never turn till the next day to make sure of full cure, and I have not lost one blank since using this method. I also sand & wipe clean the tubes prior to glue up.


Thank you for all your help, tdrumnut. I had an order arrive from GPW yesterday. I'll order the 15 min epoxy next time! Yes, I always leave my blanks/tubes to dry at least overnight, sometimes longer.

[Beedeejay]

Hey Everyone,
A very wise man from the GC wood-turners showed me a great way to clean out the brass tubes after glue has dried, with the 7mm slimline pens any way, he has a 1/4 inch drill bit with a steel rod welded to make a "t" shape handle and you just twist it by hand to help "drill" the glue out, I'm sure you could find a drill bit that fits as snugly as the 1/4 does in the other sized brass tubes,
Hope that helps
Cheers Ben

[gawdelpus]

A word of caution here ! the bore size of a 7mm pen is not a 1/4 " if you ream it to a 1/4 " chances are your fittings will not be tight enough causing problems down the track ,the rod that is used for turning these is also not a 1/4 " but a couple of thousandths of an inch less than a 1/4" . I would think the drill in question is a well worn one and therefore reams the whole without making it oversize ,easily checked by trying a fairly new 1/4 drill in a 7 mm tube :) cheers ~ John

[Beedeejay]

A word of caution here ! the bore size of a 7mm pen is not a 1/4 " if you ream it to a 1/4 " chances are your fittings will not be tight enough causing problems down the track ,the rod that is used for turning these is also not a 1/4 " but a couple of thousandths of an inch less than a 1/4" . I would think the drill in question is a well worn one and therefore reams the whole without making it oversize ,easily checked by trying a fairly new 1/4 drill in a 7 mm tube :) cheers ~ John


Good point
I have an older slightly used 1/4" and it seems to fit ok. I am buying a brand new one on the w/e. I think if it is done by hand and slowly that should help stop the shaving off the inside of the tube, I would never use a drill for this job though,

I am fairly new to turning pens so what I say might be wrong, that's why we are all here I guess, to learn from one another

[dabbler]

Hi Ben. Amongst my little armory is a 6.3mm chainsaw file. Cost about $8 at Bunnies and they come in a range of diameters. I don't use it too vigorously as it can do more damage than good if you aren't thinking. But it is useful for clearing a path if you've totally blocked a tube and flicking off not-so-stuck bits.

Better still is stopping glue from entering tubes in the first place.

(btw I think we met at GC Woodturners on Monday nights.)

[Mobyturns]

I'm not a high end pen turner but I have made a lot of std 7mm slimline pens, tried CA for a very short while, too brittle & not happy, now always use 24hr Araldite epoxy. I have used polyurethane on a lot of my laminated bowl & spin top blanks but find it is very abrasive on tools, not that much of an issue on pens unless you do celtic knot blanks etc.

No fails with 24hr epoxy. Its very easy to clean up excess epoxy in the barrels if you use cheap cotton buds & metholated spirits.

[Beedeejay]

Hi Ben. Amongst my little armory is a 6.3mm chainsaw file. Cost about $8 at Bunnies and they come in a range of diameters. I don't use it too vigorously as it can do more damage than good if you aren't thinking. But it is useful for clearing a path if you've totally blocked a tube and flicking off not-so-stuck bits.

Better still is stopping glue from entering tubes in the first place.

(btw I think we met at GC Woodturners on Monday nights.)


I do go Monday nights!
Excuse my ignorance but who may you be?
Can I get a face to the name?

[dabbler]

I do go Monday nights!
Excuse my ignorance but who may you be?
Can I get a face to the name?

I'll send you a PM.

[ian thorn]

this is just me, I use ca both thin but manly gel sand the tube first push it about 5mm into a potatoe and beak it out any xtra glue dosnt go into the tube and the spud pushes out easy the main thing you may be having trouble with is the way you drill and the size of the bit i use a 6.9 hsp drill bitt

Chears Ian

[Ines Thomas]

Hello everyone, newie here so please be kind lol I did turn a few pens many years ago but life got busy and havnt done it for many years. We are now retired and I am hoping to get some time to get back doing pens in the next few weeks. From memory the way I used to do it was glueing the tubes with super glue but I used to stick the tubes in a potato so the glue wouldn't get inside the tubes. What are your thoughts?

[col's dad]

I have been useing super glue, I scuff the tube pretty well, run the glue in while slowly turning the blank, push the tube into a1/4<>3/8 slice of carrot(not as wet as spud) run a bit of glue over the tube then insert tube, push carrot out with wooden dowl, which leaves tube nice and clean, leave a couple of hours and away you go:U and that my freinds is "my tuppence worth":rolleyes: CD.

[wiggywiggy]

I may be wrong, isn't the pen mill used for cleaning out the glue..... I'm only just starting out with pen making but it sounds like I'm barking down the wrong track....... As a lot of you seem to use blue tack or potato in the tube when gluing up!

[_fly_]

Hi Dai Sensei

Where does one get dental wax sheets. Do you have to be a dentist?:B

You can also take a slice from a raw potato (3-4mm) and push the tube into that.
Will do the same thing as the wax.

[gawdelpus]

I may be wrong, isn't the pen mill used for cleaning out the glue..... I'm only just starting out with pen making but it sounds like I'm barking down the wrong track....... As a lot of you seem to use blue tack or potato in the tube when gluing up! Most of the end mill types are a loose fit in the tubes ,they are only a guide to keep the cutter square to the face if used for trimming, the tolerances on the tubes for kits is quite close a few thousandths of an inch of glue inside the tube is enough to make the fitting parts too tight, and hence a good chance of cracking your finished pen,especially with acrylics and CA finishes, which have little or no give in them. Sometimes the glues used are clear when dry and hard to see inside the tubes, I use a small triangular scraper made from an old triangular file ground flat on all sides, this works well, also a small round file such as a chainsaw file will remove any excess glue , also a good idea to use a rotary scraper to deburr the sharp edges of the tubes to make it easier to start the fittings when pressing together . Lots to learn and try in the penmaking adventure ,you will soon find what works for you and gives you the best results , enjoy the Journey :) cheers ~ John dental wax can be found on E,Bay or your local Dental supplies distributor the sheets are about 2mm thick and a box will last years :)

[dai sensei]

You can also take a slice from a raw potato (3-4mm) and push the tube into that.
Will do the same thing as the wax.

Potato works well, but, make sure you clean the inside of the tube afterwards with metho or similar. The acid from the potato will corrode the brass. Corrosion equals expansion equals split pens.

Wax is the best but you will need to clean outside of tube, as it can cause debonding at ends, the riskiest place for debonding/peeling of blank when turning down close to size.

[Big Shed]

I have been using playdough from a $2 shop for years, not as messy as potato and easy to clean out of the tube.

[Sawdust Maker]

I have been using playdough from a $2 shop for years, not as messy as potato and easy to clean out of the tube.

I also use play dough - son got heaps of it a couple of xmases ago :D

[wiggywiggy]

Most of the end mill types are a loose fit in the tubes ,they are only a guide to keep the cutter square to the face if used for trimming, the tolerances on the tubes for kits is quite close a few thousandths of an inch of glue inside the tube is enough to make the fitting parts too tight, and hence a good chance of cracking your finished pen,especially with acrylics and CA finishes, which have little or no give in them. Sometimes the glues used are clear when dry and hard to see inside the tubes, I use a small triangular scraper made from an old triangular file ground flat on all sides, this works well, also a small round file such as a chainsaw file will remove any excess glue , also a good idea to use a rotary scraper to deburr the sharp edges of the tubes to make it easier to start the fittings when pressing together . Lots to learn and try in the penmaking adventure ,you will soon find what works for you and gives you the best results , enjoy the Journey :) cheers ~ John dental wax can be found on E,Bay or your local Dental supplies distributor the sheets are about 2mm thick and a box will last years :)

Thanks for the advice, that's why I like woodworking, learn something every day!

[Jonnydubbs]

I use Sika polyurethane glue and it works great! To ensure a good bond I rub the brass tubes with a file edge while spinning them on the lathe, going both directions. This creates a criss-cross pattern on the brass. No problems with creeping and the glue is soft enough to trim off with a craft knife when cured. I tried supa glue in the early days but that wasn't successful.

[BigBloke]

ke sure you don't use accelerator on CA glue, it makes it very brittle.

[Woodcrafts_UK]

To seal the insertion end of the tube just push it into a potato about a 1/4", press the tube sideways to cause a pellet to stay inside and it's job done. Same as you used to do with 'spud guns' when I was a bit younger!!

[warrick]

To seal the insertion end of the tube just push it into a potato about a 1/4", press the tube sideways to cause a pellet to stay inside and it's job done. Same as you used to do with 'spud guns' when I was a bit younger!!
I do something similar, the neighbours orange tree comes over the fence so I just pick one and use the peel in the same way as you
:D
Rick