Arboga EM825 mill/drill arbor removal

[neksmerj]

Having just acquired my Arboga, I'm very much on a learning curve.

The first problem I'm having is the removal of the arbor. It appears to be firmly jammed up into the quill. In the side of the head casting, is an opening, where it is obvious that a drift is inserted, to knock the arbor out. The end of the arbor is visible through this opening.

After several blows with a light hammer on a drift, no-go.

So, is there a secret to this? Maybe a spray of WD40, or a bigger hammer?

Any clues?

Ken

[Dave J]

Does it have a draw bar? If so you need to loosen it off a couple of turns and give it a sharp whack with a hammer.

Dave

[neksmerj]

Dave, no, there is no draw bar. It's passage from above is blocked by the motor. Arboga use a different system. It's a bit tricky to explain.

Greg, I seem to have deleted your reply, for some strange reason, my post was duplicated, and it seems I deleted the wrong one. Sorry.

I was under the impression that the knurled lock ring that you referred to, was simply to squeeze the collets onto what ever cutter was installed. On inspection of the collets, they are threaded and screw up into the arbor.

If I've got it all wrong, please set me straight.

PS, just read your reply on "that other forum" perhaps we should continue on this forum to save duplication. Like your recipe for penetrating oil, auto tranny fluid and acetone, Sounds like a wicked explosive mix, what does it taste like?

Ken

[Stustoys]

Did you undo the lock ring?
"There are one or two details about the spindle that are worth knowing: it was fitted, as standard, with a 3-Morse taper, with a tang knockout but, because the spindle line was blocked by the motor above, without a draw-bar for holding cutters in the head; instead, a screwed ring on the spindle nose retained a "slotted" washer which was slipped over the neck of a cutter between its Morse taper shank and the cutting edges. Only one "washer", distance piece and retaining ring were required for the full-size 3-Morse fitting, but to hold tapers of No. 2 and 1-Morse in adapter sleeves (and the special drill chuck) a total of five were needed."
Stuart

[neksmerj]

Hi Stu,

Yeh thanks, I too have read Tony's web site since my initial post. I've given these instructions to my mate where the mill is currently stored. Hopefully he will be able to undo the knurled lock washer, and all will be well.

Ken

[Stustoys]

If that doesnt work. Bearing wholesalers sell Welcome to: Loctite® Freeze & Release (http://www.loctitefreezeandrelease.com/)
Which I've used to get a MT3 chuck out of a pillar drill.
Stuart

[Greg Q]

Ken, I'll repost the gist of my comments from last night: The uppermost knurled ring at the bottom of the quill is what retains all tooling inserted into the morse 3 taper. As you know, without a drawbar milling tooling would just fall out without a locking device at the bottom.

As I mentioned I was able to free up my mate's Arboga ring with a bit of penetrating oil and a strap wrench. Bunnings sells (in the plumbing department only, not the tool section) a rubber strap wrench. It has a red plastic handle and is approx $15.00.*** It is a very useful item around the house, including the kitchen. You can apply added force with a pipe over the handle as the strap self-tightens.

My friend's Arboga took a bit of mojo to loosen as it had been there unused since 1974. Its easier to get to if you lower the quill a couple of inches.

If you were a hack (which I know you're not) you could use some other, more destructive means of wrenching it.

Once it's off clean out all the dried up WD-40 and give it a light swipe of an oily rag and it'll be easy to remove forever more.

Greg


***the same thing online from the US is $4.00. Bunnings (Westfarmers) was one of the voices calling for GST on online purchases. I don't shop there anymore, but if you don't mind getting ripped off, go for it. (I'll lend you mine next week if needed)

[neksmerj]

Hi Greg,

Many thanks for your valued assistance. I'll take you up on your offer to borrow your strap wrench, if I can't locate one. You might like to have a squize at the mill in any case, it's stored in Preston.

I presume your Indian counterpart, is very similar. How do you tell what sort of collets fit the mill? Mine finish with a flange at the back end, with a couple of flats to prevent rotation.

One thing I don't have is a drill chuck arbor. Any clues on modifying a standard MT3 arbor, I presume all is needed is a collar welded on in the appropriate place, then machined to clean up?

Ken

[Greg Q]

Hi Ken...

I don't reckon you need to lock a drill arbor in. Most drill presses just bung it in.
My Taiwanese (if you please:wink:) drill lacks that locking ring since its a drill only.

Now, those collets of yours sound like Clarkson Auto-Locks. They were the hot set-up back in the days before ER40 etc. I think most machines sold in Oz back then had a Clarkson chuck for them supplied. There should be a large spanner to loosen the collets. They are threaded internally to take threaded shank endmills.

As far as other tooling goes you might need to make up different washers to fit inside the locking ring for different tooling. I guess you'd eventually want to get a set of ER32 or ER40 collets and an MT3 chuck from CTC Tools in Hong Kong. Our local users on this forum seemed pretty pleased with them. When you do I can help you modify the shank for a locking washer.

If you go the ER route, you can even buy drill chucks with straight arbors so you rarely have to worry about changing out the ER chuck in the quill.

You may eventually want a small MT3 face mill...same thing there. Ditto for a fly cutter.

Greg

PS...If your Morse 3 socket in the quill needs cleaning up I have the reamer you can borrow.

[neksmerj]

Another question about collets and cutters. Please bear with me, never had a mill before, or collets.

The cylindrical milling cutters I have, come in various outside dimensions, say 12mm, 10mm and 8mm. Some are tapered, this seemed a mystery until someone suggested the tapered ones were probably used for providing relief to casting molds. I thought that was a good answer.

The shank ends are threaded. Now I guess that they inserted into the collets, and screwed in.

Is it the thread only, and the neat fit in the collet, that holds it in place, or does the collet close in on the cutter, and clamp it up.
If yes, how does the clamping occur?
If this is the case, how do you get the blighters out, the thread will be tight? Questions, questions.....and there will be more.

Ken

[RayG]

Hi Ken, Can I recommend that you watch the MIT workshop training videos. Here is the one on milling MIT TechTV – Machine Shop 4 (http://techtv.mit.edu/videos/127-machine-shop-4) Regards Ray

[Big Shed]

Ken, I've got quite a few of those threaded end milling cutters, both 2 and 4 flute ones.

I use them in my ER25 collets, all you need is an ER collet chuck that fits your mill spindle. The thread isn't used with these collets.

If you don't already own a set of ER collets I would recommend you get the ER32 set, it goes from 2 - 20mm in 1mm steps. Each collet can hold a 1mm range, eg 10-11 or 15-16 etc.

As RayG suggested there are lots of videos and articles on milling on the internet, Youtube is also a good source.

I found 2 books in the Workshop Practice Series very helpful

#5 Vertical Milling in the Workshp

#35 Milling - A complete course.

I also buy an English magazine, Model Engineers Workshop every month and have learned a lot from it.

[Big Shed]

I found this site very useful too

Minii-mill Accessories (http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_mill/Accessories/accessories.htm)

[Stustoys]

The way I think its meant to work is this.
The collet is free to float up and down in the chuck. When you screw the cutter into the collet passes through and pushes against the center in the chuck body, the cutter then pushes the collet down into the taper in the chuck nut and this locks the collet to the chuck and the cutter shank.
Hope that has cleared things up ;)
Stuart

[neksmerj]

OK, the knurled nut is off, easy peasy, however, the arbor is stuck in the quill. My mate undid the nut in my absence, and tells me he has sprayed some penetrating oil into the guts.

Will have to wait a couple of days, to see if that worked.

Ken

[Dave J]

Dave, no, there is no draw bar. It's passage from above is blocked by the motor. Arboga use a different system. It's a bit tricky to explain.
Ken

I just came across a Arboga thread posted up today showing your spindle set up, and if it's the same as yours it looks very simple to me.
Weekend Tool Gloat: Arboga gearhead drill - The Home Shop Machinist & Machinist's Workshop BBS (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=46212)
I would clamp a slide hammer it the collet and use it to get the MT3 out.

Here is a picture to show other members what your set looks like.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=160212&stc=1&d=1296529040

Dave

[neksmerj]

Following a good tip from a member of another forum in the States, (am trying to get him across to our forum cos he's an Aussie) I finally managed to loosen and undo the arbor retaining nut.

Using a massive 10" 4-jaw chuck, clamped around the nut, it finally came loose after 3 or 4 attempts.

A couple of big shifters on opposite jaws, gave the leverage required.
A strip of rubber between jaws and nut, prevented any damage.

The arbor was also dead tight up the spout, but finally relented with the insertion of a drift in through the side on the mandrel.

Turning the spindle by hand doesn't feel good, it's lumpy. I just bloody hope the spindle bearings or fibre gears are not wrecked. I guess I won't really know until I fire it up.

I've got another question about finishes, but will start another post.

Ken

[Greg Q]

Ken, the grease in the bearings might be dried out, and/or the gear selectors may be not quite in a detent. Don't be too concerned about the bearings at this stage...I think it would take a herculean effort to damage a bearing with a drift in an arbor.

If worse comes to worse they are easily obtainable Timken tapered rollers in the quill.

Good work getting that retaining ring off.

Greg

[neksmerj]

Thanks Greg,

I hope you are right. If the bearings are buggered, I have been told it's not a big deal to pull the mandrel/quill out, and replace them. If any of the fibre gears are knackered, then I could be in trouble.

Will seek your expert opinion on site as arranged.

Ken