SAWSTOP - Keep all your fingers

[monoman]

I read about this product over a year ago. At the time there were no details about it. Fine Woodworking has some info, including a very impressive video demo.

One day, all saws will be fitted with a device like this.

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00108.asp

Cheers

[markharrison]

There is an interesting thread going on at Woodcentral at the moment on this very subject. If it happens at all, it wont be for a very long time. The attitudes in the US on mandating safety seems to be construed as some government conspiracy by the less mentally adept.

Don't believe me? Have a look at how well mandatory seat belt laws have been accepted in the US. Not!!!!! Every time I go there I am dumb founded how many otherwise intelligent people refuse to wear them. Australia introduced mandatory seat belt laws in 1969. A lot of folks in the US seem to think (!) that this is an affront to their freedom. Don't believe that this is true? Have a look at one of the responses to a message of mine at Woodcentral.

I personally think that the US was the wrong place to start. If it were my business I would have started in Europe.

Of course, I don't really think that everyone in the USA are stupid. Crikey, we have our own share of boofheads and duffers! :-) It's just that with 255 million people in the USA the number of boofheads start to be obvious.

[MikeK]

I got in contact with them a few months ago in regards to the availability of their saws in Oz. If I recall correctly, they are focussing on the US market first and then expanding. The cost of sending a an Oz speced saw to Oz made it prohibitive (but then how much are 10 fingers worth ?)

[jacko]

I actually worked with the wife of the inventor in Portland Oregon. They tried for two years to get saw manufacturers interested but the added cost just impacted thier bottom lines. They failed to realize that there was a lesson to be learned from the car industry where safety has become a major selling issue--- SIP, airbags, clever braking systems etc. So as a result Steve has gone out on his own to manufacture commplete saw tables! Hope they maek it or convince the Delta's of this world that our fingers are worth saving, otherwise how can we write cheques (checks) for their goodies?
I saw a live demo using a sausage as a psuedo finger, barely nicked it! Dead scary!
Jacko

[Dean]

When does actual human testing begin?
:D :D :D

[Pete J]

Sawstop also gets a run in the latest FWW Tools and Shops. The stats quoted by the Assistant Editor are that in the US in 2002, there were 33,114 reported injuries on table saws, with 3,503 of those being amputations. Makes you shudder a bit and almost involuntarily close your hands.

You wonder why the demand isn't greater, even after considering the price.

Regards

[Dean]

I agree 100% they should have started with this idea in Europe where the safety rules are much more valued. Your best saw stop device is your blade guard and splitter (where appropriate) and a dash of comon sense :)

[Ben from Vic.]

[QUOTE=markharrison]Don't believe me? Have a look at how well mandatory seat belt laws have been accepted in the US. Not!!!!! Every time I go there I am dumb founded how many otherwise intelligent people refuse to wear them. Australia introduced mandatory seat belt laws in 1969. A lot of folks in the US seem to think (!) that this is an affront to their freedom. Don't believe that this is true? Have a look at one of the responses to a message of mine at Woodcentral.

Of course, I don't really think that everyone in the USA are stupid. Crikey, we have our own share of boofheads and duffers! :-) It's just that with 255 million people in the USA the number of boofheads start to be obvious./QUOTE]


Mandatory safety item in the US would largely affect their other national pass time...... sueing the @rse off your neighbour.

With 255 million people, they'd have more "boofheads" ;) than our entire population (they do seem to have a higher percentage thought ;) )


I followed the link on the FWW web site and dowloaded all the videos I could.
I think it's a fantastic product.

Having worked with (large) machinery before (think two water cooled rollers (water inside) both 140cm wide by 60cm dia. spinning at about 70 RPM, about a tone of gears and a 400hp electric motor, all stopping in a 1/4 turn :eek: ), I am aware of how brutal these quick stop mechanisms can be on the machine, and am also impressed to see that they have beefed up their arbour bearings to up to %50 greater diameter than their competitors.
So even if you never use the Stop function, larger bearings is always a plus.


Ben.

[Different]

Here goes I am going to make myself a target for the PC Flamers out there.

I rate this idea up there with AirBags and ABS, A wast of Money nothing more.
OK we have a problem with people killing themselves in car crashes so what is our response? We spend billions making the killer impact softer with a big balloon! Why not slow down and learn to drive. Cant stop your brakes from locking so we develop ABS Why not drive for the conditions and make ABS redundant . Cant keep your pinkies out of a fast rotating blade that looks and sounds dangerous? Develop a special saw that stops when you shove a sausage in it.
This is just more of te same attitude that says if people act irresponsibly then we just make the world safer for them. Why do we not insist on people taking responsibily for their own behaviour and let Natural Selection
take its course.

Ross
Awaiting the hail of stones from those without sin.

[Dean]

Amen! Ross :)
I'm all for safety, but I think Ross has hit the nail on the head... hmm there is an idea... nails that you cannot miss :D :D :D

[PuppyPaw]

Crap!
Although I know safty is a priority for everyone and I agree with this topic I gotta say the reaction time from flesh damage to blade fall was just phanominal!!

The only thing I wonder about is if the water content of the wood would have an effect on the electrical sensor. Would green would create a bridge between the blade and person?

[chook]

I agree that such safety devices should not be necessary and that if used correctly saw tables are safe BUT the number of accidents shows that they are not used correctly. All you need is the money and you can purchase 2 or 3 horse power of amputation machinery and you do not have to have even one bit of an idea of how to use it. The general attitude to safety by many of the tradesman I have worked with is appalling. I hardly ever see a chippy or a cabinet maker use eye protection when they use nail guns or powered saws (SCMS or table saws). I suspect that safety is taken more seriously by the non proffessionals of this world. But even there I have had some difficulty persuading some men that unless they take some rudimentary precautions that an accident is almost certain to happen. (If you are in the market for an interesting and educational experience try convincing some 17 and 18 year olds that ear protection is important and that ear plugs matter). So given the dire consequences of a mishap I am in favour of such devices being fitted, especially in environments were education and training is occurring and I hope that the man makes a fortune.

[LineLefty]

I. All you need is the money and you can purchase 2 or 3 horse power of amputation machinery and you do not have to have even one bit of an idea of how to use it.

I think this is a good point. A few years ago however TS's were very expensive, meaning that people felt like they had to learn how to use ther $1500 toy. Now you can buy a $68 TS from Big W. It may not be accurate but it'll but your finger off just as fast.

As my past post on 'fear of tablesaws' shows, I've read a few books, gone to Timbecon and Carbatecs demonstrations and I dont even have a table saw yet..................

[Ben from Vic.]

The only thing I wonder about is if the water content of the wood would have an effect on the electrical sensor. Would green would create a bridge between the blade and person?

On their web site (under FAQ) they say it won't affect the system.

[silentC]

I would liken it to tightrope walking with or without a safety net. If you are a wizard on the rope, you don't need the net. However, if you add the net, any mug can have a go without fear of falling.

Whilst I agree with Ross to a certain extent - there is an element of addressing the symptom rather than the cause - I would say that if someone can come up with a device that makes it less likely that someone is going to sever themselves from their digits, then it's a good idea.

As for attitude to safety, it's just that - an attitude. People can make their own choices as long as they live with them. You can't force people to change their attitude, all you can do is give them the information and let them decide for themselves.

[Different]

I would liken it to tightrope walking with or without a safety net. If you are a wizard on the rope, you don't need the net. However, if you add the net, any mug can have a go without fear of falling.

Whilst I agree with Ross to a certain extent - there is an element of addressing the symptom rather than the cause - I would say that if someone can come up with a device that makes it less likely that someone is going to sever themselves from their digits, then it's a good idea.

As for attitude to safety, it's just that - an attitude. People can make their own choices as long as they live with them. You can't force people to change their attitude, all you can do is give them the information and let them decide for themselves.
Dont get me wrong I dont want to see anybody get hurt but if things are going to improve and this applies to Table saws, P Plate drivers or firearms the responsibility must start and end with the operator and by making things the responsibility of a manufacturer or other party you remove the need for people to step up and do their bit. The end result is lots of pointless Litigation expense and gadgetry. People will take the easy route and make it everyone elses problem but their own, the Abdication of Responsibility is the single largest cause of social decay in our country.
Theft, assult,robery ,rape ,drug use and many other ills are at least in part the result of the "someone elses problem" attitude and I suspect that the current trend of the "Nanny State" and non meat cutting Tablesaws only add to this.

Now I am going to cut up my soapbox on my ungarded tablesaw and make some furniture out of it.

Ross

[Ben from Vic.]

I don't entirly agree, but I see your point.

[jur]

Different, wise words.

But I think there might be a bit of the old familiarity/contempt in the issue - you start out careful enough, it develops into a good habit, so the same careful concenttration is no longer present, and - PRESTO! another nicked sausage, despite you being a very careful chap otherwise.

I have a habit of wearing goggles, but sometimes the goggles may be at the other end and "I just have to cut this one small piece, it will be fine without goggles," and would you know, that is exactly the instance when small bits of wood go flying at my eyes. Cures me for another 12 months.

[numbat]

I agree with jur - and was just going to post the same sentiment - whilst I can see Different's point of view about taking responsibility, I think I would rather have an airbag in my car when some confused/drunk/recreational chemical affected driver runs into mine.

I think that the protections advocated help after the "oh no" second when you realise that despite being careful otherwise you have done something stupid (like cut yourself with a sharp blade or even paper). Its to protect you from that moment of inattention - not to make you totally blase about what you are doing.

For the record I have ABS, airbags in my car, earth leakage circuit breakers as well as circuit breakers.

Cheers

[Eastie]

I ran this past a bloke at work who cut off his thumb five weeks ago at home on a saw. The saw-stop looks great and I’m sure that if he had one he wouldn’t be in the situation of being uncertain if his thumb will fall off if he removes the splint. Amongst other general ridiculing it was discussed in hindsight whether he’d pay for such a feature – of course not. This led to the discussion of whether he will use one in future – again certainly not. The accident occurred because of a lapse in attention on one of the last cuts for the day (as is often the case) – something that he is well aware of and can comfortably accept. This raises the question of why invest $’s for just a table saw – certainly the risks involve in using a router/moulder/bandsaw/planer and having a lapse of attention could result in similar injuries. What it comes down to is risk, and what each of us is prepared to retain, minimise or avert. Some risks are high, some are low, some are encountered all the time, others hardly ever, some we can see coming and others just bite us on the bum when we least expect it. Such is life.

[jacko]

While the average Joe US citizen may well abhor the use of seat belts, etc. you will find that they have more rules about safety in equipment and tools used around the home than we have ever heard of! During our time living there I regularly bumped into them, things like a dead mans handle on mower mowers so that the motor cuts out whenever you let go of the handle, thus preventing you from removing the grass catcher until it was safe. This has of course something to do with the litiginous nature of the US populus, but this is a trend very visible here as well, so for all those who see imposed safety as an imposition on their personal freedom to maim or otherwise damage themselves, just wait, we will see the same sort of rules here before long.
Jacko

[monoman]

Well, what cam I say. This has thread has raised so issues. I've been using tablesaws for 40 years. I now own the Durden Peacemaker I started on (nicked it from Dad). Over the years, I been very safety concious. I've used googles (sometimes), push sticks (sometimes), and the gaurd (er, not sure where that got to).

I've drawn blood on many occaisions, but thankfully, have all my fingers and both eyeballs. Mostly, this is because I have always worked to a system - same stance, same order of operation. I've never touched the blade with the power connected - it's just the way I work.

Would I use a tablesaw with a sawstopper. Absolutely. Would it make me any less carefull - No.

The sawstopper works by detecting the capacitance in the human body (I guess weener have it too), qnd could theoritically, be added to many other machines, like angle-grinders (which have always scared me), chainsaws, bandsaws, and etc. All of these machines have inflicted great damage on skill professional and rank amatures alike. Would I test if it works with my own finger? No way. Would I get careless - Hope not.

Someone equated the sawstopper to ABS brakes. ABS was banned from F1 because the cars were generating so many Gs in braking that it was getting too close to what a human could take before blacking-out. I don't know about you, but the guys in F1 know how to drive.

Cheers

[ozwinner]

Ok, now just supposing that I substatuted my togger for the sausage, not that Im going to do it mind you, but just suppose, like I said, Im not going to do it,....... but just think of the thrill.

Whizzing high speed carbide,...... togger, ........who will win?
Will the blade brake REALY work, ooowhhh Im getting goose pimples just thinking about it.
One small nick verses the thrill of it all,.....is it worth it.

Get a life you perveted lot. :D :D

No animals were hurt in the making of this porno movie.http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/lol.gifhttp://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif
Al http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/geno/rofl.gif

[monoman]

Will the blade brake REALY work, ooowhhh Im getting goose pimples just thinking about it.
One small nick verses the thrill of it all,.....is it worth it.


I think your monkey might deserve a spanking.

[Wood Butcher]

Here goes I am going to make myself a target for the PC Flamers out there.

I rate this idea up there with AirBags and ABS, A wast of Money nothing more.
OK we have a problem with people killing themselves in car crashes so what is our response? We spend billions making the killer impact softer with a big balloon! Why not slow down and learn to drive. Cant stop your brakes from locking so we develop ABS Why not drive for the conditions and make ABS redundant . Cant keep your pinkies out of a fast rotating blade that looks and sounds dangerous? Develop a special saw that stops when you shove a sausage in it.
This is just more of te same attitude that says if people act irresponsibly then we just make the world safer for them. Why do we not insist on people taking responsibily for their own behaviour and let Natural Selection
take its course.

Ross
Awaiting the hail of stones from those without sin.
I do agree with people being more responsible for their actions BUT,

I have being using stationary WW machines since I have been 6 years old and I have done numerous courses on workplace health and safety. I do everything that I can do ensure that what I do at work is as safe as possible, but I still cut my thumb on a TS. I can not tell you what or how it happened even though I rack my brain till I get a headache. If these devices come up for sale in Australia I will be certainly looking at them. If not for me using them, for the other guys that work for me. Even though there are trained in the use of TS's accidents still happen.

[graemet]

This is just more of the same attitude that says if people act irresponsibly then we just make the world safer for them. Why do we not insist on people taking responsibily for their own behaviour and let Natural Selection
take its course.
Ross
. Onya Ross! There are far too many people who want to use tools & machinery without wanting to learn the proper way to do it and then blame the manufacturer or the retailer when they remove part of their anatomy. Similarly blaming the car for a fault in the nut holding the wheel, the council for failing to look where they're walking etc. etc. etc.
The world will be a better place when we remove the right to sue for an accident that is due to the stupidity of the victim. A pox on lawyers and politicians! TO THE BARRICADES!!!!!!
Graeme

[monoman]

I wonder if the dude that invented the blade gaurd got a similar cry when he announced that on the web?

Tell me, how many people out there hold their breath when working MDF? Okay, I know it ain't the same thing. Just having a laugh?

[Different]

One final point. In the US there are studies showing certain Makes of cars advertised as safe and fitted with ABS and Airbags are involved in accidents more frequently because their halfwit owners believe themselves to be protected and so drive more aggresivly.

Ross

[HappyHammer]

I've been using tablesaws for 40 years.
You were allowed near a table saw at 7 years old? :eek:

[himzol]

Tell me, how many people out there hold their breath when working MDF? Okay, I know it ain't the same thing. Just having a laugh?

I don't hold my breath, I just avoid using the $h.t if I can.

As for the device in question, well even though I am extremely carefull (still have all fingers, thumbs and toes) I would be tempted in placing this device on my saw. Why? For the same reason I wear goggles, earmuffs and have the guard set properly before each cut.
I have electrical safety systems in place and have never had to find out if they work or not.
I have fire extinguishers in my shed which have never been used (only tested and replaced).
A first aid kit sits proudly on the wall where it was hung, the only thing used were tweazers to get splinters out and the occasional band aid.

I'm the first to admit that I'm a bit anal about safety, but sharp pointy things spinning around at speed tend to scare the ka-ka out of me.

I may be out and out wrong but I see this device in the same vain, as a precautionary device rather then a preventative device. Nice to know it's there but I hope never to use it.

Himzo.

[YCF Dino]

Dont get me wrong I dont want to see anybody get hurt but if things are going to improve and this applies to Table saws, P Plate drivers or firearms the responsibility must start and end with the operator and by making things the responsibility of a manufacturer or other party you remove the need for people to step up and do their bit. The end result is lots of pointless Litigation expense and gadgetry. People will take the easy route and make it everyone elses problem but their own, the Abdication of Responsibility is the single largest cause of social decay in our country.
Theft, assult,robery ,rape ,drug use and many other ills are at least in part the result of the "someone elses problem" attitude and I suspect that the current trend of the "Nanny State" and non meat cutting Tablesaws only add to this.

Now I am going to cut up my soapbox on my ungarded tablesaw and make some furniture out of it.

Ross
What the hell, the best ever invention in woodworking history have to do with you going to make some furniture on your ungarded tablesaw?
Is the sawstop a threat to your tablesaw mentality?
Do you ever have to stay in front of a spinning blade for 8 hours straight to make a living? Because if you done that, then..you should know that is imposible for a human to operate a machine such as the tablesaw without making an error.

So , what is your advice to a newbie? Do you see how good I'm? I still have all my fingers and other's don't. So, I'm better. And I' don't even use a blade guard. (this is what I' call the tablesaw mentality)

You know what? this is why we have so many accident's in our trade.
With this kind of mentality there is not need for anything better and safer.

You don't worry if someone else lose few finger's.
Because you never have to look for your co-worker and friend digits and take them to a hospital .
You worry that you may lose the only rush you got left.
Woodworking my friend is anything but telling other's that you can do it better and without a guard.

[QUOTE=Different]Dont get me wrong I dont want to see anybody get hurt but....................
Now I am going to cut up my soapbox on my ungarded tablesaw and make some furniture out of it.................................

Cheers.

YCF Dino

[jackiew]

One final point. In the US there are studies showing certain Makes of cars advertised as safe and fitted with ABS and Airbags are involved in accidents more frequently because their halfwit owners believe themselves to be protected and so drive more aggresivly.

Ross

Some researchers have named this concept "Risk Compensation". The idea has been around for at least 15 years to my knowledge and probably longer. If you're interested there are quite a few articles on the net arguing for and against the concept.

You've only got to examine your own panic reaction when you realise that unbeknownst to you that you've been driving your car with one of the indicators out to recognise that we all practise Risk Compensation to one degree or another. If I know that the cars around me don't know I'm going to change lane I drive totally differently.

For a long while I used to ride a motorcycle which didn't have indicators fitted ( law in the uk said if they were fitted they had to work - they didn't work so I took them off and never got round to refitting them ) I can assure you that you don't do what many ( most?) car drivers are guilty of which is slapping on the indicators while you are actually changing lanes.

[silentC]

What the hell, the best ever invention in woodworking history have to do with you going to make some furniture on your ungarded tablesaw?
It is an example of what we here in Australia call sarcasm.

You should try not to get so emotional, it's not good for you.

[himzol]

Dam it silent, you beat me to it.

Don't know about this greatest invention in woodworking history stuff either, perhaps one should get a wider view of the world before making such statements.

Himzo

[Termite]

You should try not to get so emotional, it's not good for you.
I do believe that there are anti-emotional pills around and they are the best invention around for emotional septics, maybe they should be compulsory too. :rolleyes: ;)

[LineLefty]

No Np don't listen to silentC. You go ahead and get emotional - it's entertaining.

And besides I agree with you. iffrents argument is ike saying We should all be driving pillarless yanktank death traps because that'll teach us to drive safer!

Or, we should let truckies drive for 26hours a day because it will teach them about safety.

In his case you could say he's geting closer and closer to the day.......................

[DaveInOz]

Don't get too excited guys this septic may have a sence of humour - he did put the :cool: in his title ...... or maybe my p1ss take antena needs recalibrating. :)

[silentC]

Better get yourself down to Tandy and pick up a signal meter, Dave :D

[himzol]

Don't get too excited guys this septic may have a sence of humour

Yeah, like Krusty the clown..

Himzo

[DaveInOz]

Yeah, like Krusty the clown..

Himzo

I thought funny yanks are by definition Canadian :D

[himzol]

I thought funny yanks are by definition Canadian

Or Mexican... :D

[echnidna]

THE problem with the sawstop is that it is NOT affordable to many people

[bitingmidge]

Um.. I thought TREES were the best invention in woodwork history.

P (who thinks that the lowest form of wit is better than no wit at all)

:D :D :D :D

[ozwinner]

What about sausages being the best invention in woodwork history?? :confused:


Al :confused:

[echnidna]

What about sausages being the best invention in woodwork history??
Well, depending on the butcher who makes them they can get rid of a bit of sawdust.

[bitingmidge]

Actually don't we have a problem now?

Since the saw stops with only a tiny mark in the sausage skin, how is the butcher going to cut them to length if all saws are fitted with this device?

P
:confused: :confused: :confused:

[craigb]

Midge,

Butchers use bandsaws ;)

[Craig Gordon]

I understand that we cannot always protect people from their own stupidity but for those that think that we do not need this safety device consider this.

We all love woodworking and I am sure that we will all want to instill in our kids the same passion. When they are being taught the ropes and trying things out for themselves on our machines would you want this feature? Whens it comes to myself I make the judgements and decide when something is too risky or not. I accept the consequences when something goes wrong, but when it comes to someone I love I won't take those risks I would for myself. No ifs, buts or or maybes.

As with all things once all the manufacturers develop the same systems they will become cheaper and will not add a significant cost to the units.

Cheers,
Craig Gordon

[Different]

What the hell, the best ever invention in woodworking history have to do with you going to make some furniture on your ungarded tablesaw?
Is the sawstop a threat to your tablesaw mentality?
Do you ever have to stay in front of a spinning blade for 8 hours straight to make a living? Because if you done that, then..you should know that is imposible for a human to operate a machine such as the tablesaw without making an error.

So , what is your advice to a newbie? Do you see how good I'm? I still have all my fingers and other's don't. So, I'm better. And I' don't even use a blade guard. (this is what I' call the tablesaw mentality)

You know what? this is why we have so many accident's in our trade.
With this kind of mentality there is not need for anything better and safer.

You don't worry if someone else lose few finger's.
Because you never have to look for your co-worker and friend digits and take them to a hospital .
You worry that you may lose the only rush you got left.
Woodworking my friend is anything but telling other's that you can do it better and without a guard.

[QUOTE=Different]Dont get me wrong I dont want to see anybody get hurt but....................
Now I am going to cut up my soapbox on my ungarded tablesaw and make some furniture out of it.................................

Cheers.

YCF DinoWrong on several points.
Firstly I do stand in front of a saw often times more than 8 hours a day.

SecondlyThe bit of my post you quoted was something we Australians call humour it seems you have had trouble picking up on that so I will just give you some more time to catch on!!!

Thirdly Since you have labled me as afflicted with the "Tablesaw Mentality" I will give you a useful piece of advice. If you dont stick you finger into the blade it wont get cut. Correct stance and ballance and a thorough understanding of the machine and operation make it next to impossible to cut off a digit.

Lastly
"You worry that you may lose the only rush you got left.
Woodworking my friend is anything but telling other's that you can do it better and without a guard." You dont know me well enough to make a comment like this but i do suggest you talk to your therapist amout your masculinity fixation and probably several others.

Ross

[Sturdee]

Welcome to the club Ross, I had my septic Joe and you now have your own septic fan :p .

But go easy on him as, and I paraphrase from his website, " his mission is to promote not only inventions, but the best, most innovative products, of their respective class so long as they are better than anything else out there. He is creating a culture of innovation and cooperation. In the spirit of the American Way." :eek:

He probably can 't accept that, unlike our PM, we don't believe in superman and the American Way. It would also help if he learned about our unique sense of humour. :D

Personally I think it is a great invention and ultimately all saws will be fitted with them but as Mark Harrison said the US was the wrong place to start. They should have started in Europe as they are more safety conscious.


Peter.

[DanP]

It took me the better part of a year to save up and buy my TS. If they make these things compulsory, the higher price tag will put blokes like me out of the market (and my pay is not little).

I say leave it as it is. They are available for those who want and can afford them, but there are the 'dangerous' saws for those who can't afford them or just want "the rush".

Dan

[echnidna]

I hope there isn't a worksafe cop reading our forums.
coz its technically possible we will all have to do it regardless that its also impractical

[silentC]

I'd like to see them force me to retrofit a saw brake to my tablesaw. They might make it compulsory in places of business and for future saws sold but they'll have a hard time getting them on existing privately owned saws.

[echnidna]

Picture this
A triton with sawstop

[Eastie]

Ok - all this sophisticated discussion has prompted me to make an announcement. Whilst away I've been working on a self retracting chisel - same principles as the self retracting syringe. Unfortunately due to the inability of exposing the blade for fear of cutting its user it is totaly useless, but at least the only injury it will ever cause will be blunt instrument trauma.

Eastie the educated safety nuffy ;)

[silentC]

Damn, your premature announcement forces me to release my own plans for self-retracting fingers. As soon as the skin detects a sharp metal edge, the fingers retract into the hands within a fraction of a second.

Early tests are promising but this morning when I was shaving - I accidentally touched the razor blade with my thumb and before I knew it, the razor, with no fingers to hold it, had fallen from my hand and cut my big toe. Retractable toes are now under development.

[craigb]

How long do we have to wait for the retractable head? (sorry Darren, couldn't resist) :D

[Ben from Vic.]

How long do we have to wait for the retractable head? (sorry Darren, couldn't resist) :D

Most of us already have one of those, it's usually triggered by extream cold.

[silentC]

That's more up Al's alley, isn't it?

:D :D :D :D

[Kris.Parker1]

Crap!
Would green would create a bridge between the blade and person?
I guess that's why they use hot dogs for the demo's. You gotta ask yourself, are my fingers big and pudgy enough to initiate the safety mechanism? Probably like a lot of folk, I have long skinny bony fingers, would this matter?

Food for thought.

Anyone for a hot dog?

[Kris.Parker1]

Most of us already have one of those, it's usually triggered by extreme cold.
Maybe the head retracting is usually caused by someone pointing a retractable finger at someone. (ha ha)

[ozwinner]

A new type of band saw has just been released onto the market, aimed at butchers.

When the butcher is cutting meat on his saw and accidently cuts timber, a blade brake stops the saw in .0000000000000000000134 of a second.
This way, no timber will ever be harmed on a butchers saw.

Al :D

[woodcutta]

While reading all these post I am surprised to see that no-one yet has mentioned that it doesn't work. I read a test report in a woodworking machine a few years back that yes, it did stop the blade when it touched a sausage, but it destroys the blade when it does it. Not bad $80 to save a finger, but while testing, it false tripped 3 times cutting wood and destroyed 3 more blades.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against safety, however I would expect that if I had a safety device, it should work as designed.


Woodcutta

[Ben from Vic.]

Hadn't heard that before.

Then there's the cost of the self secrificing cartridge, probably $100 odd too.

[barnsey]

I've got it!! :D Bonanza - a device that'll stop people walking under a bus :D :D

Okay safety nuts I agree with you - safety is important. ;)

BUT the greatest factor in safety is neurones that synapse. If you are using any moving machinery then you have the responsibilty of keeping it under control. You can get into real trouble if you do it with machinery in public places eg cars, buses, trucks, demolition equipment - you name it if you don't do the right thing they'll come down on you. You know even though they keep devising all these new safety devices it still happens. :confused:

Nothing is idiot proof and the facts support that no matter how much inherent safety you want to build in. :rolleyes:

The indivdual is the one that has ultimate control over safety. :o

Complacency is bred by familiarity, make a machine too comfortable and familiarity comes to levels that just ask for complacency. :confused:

Yes I've done it too and luckily still have all my appendages and not too many embarassing scars but when that machine turns on now it has my total respect regardless of it's safety features. :o

Jamie

PS Will this device stop me losing my palms when I place them on the linisher???? :confused:

[Ben from Vic.]

Barnsey.

*Picture me taking a big bite and swalowing the bait, hook, line and sinker*

I completely agree with you about not wanting to live in a nanny state, I believe that people should be held acountable for their own stupid actions.

But

What we are discusing here is not the nanny state or failure to take resposability for ones own actions. These devices are more what I'd call Loss Prevention Mesures.

There is a huge difference between legislation to protect the brain dead from themselves (and sueing), and progress in pasive safety mesures.

If someone is dumb enough to 'drive faster because he/she is protected by a (insert automobile safety device here)', then they are doing the world a favour when they off themselves.

Yes, we still need to be carefull, no, we shouldn't see it as a decreased risk, and chances are it'll never be used.

People make mistakes. It's that simple.

No one here is calling for these or any onther safety devices to be made law, so you can all relax. If you don't want it, fine, don't buy it.



Ben.

[MathewA]

I don't think safety is an issue here, reliability and therefore liability is. It's a great idea - now lets see how well it works in a real environment. I don't mean a hobby shop either, I mean a real shop. It's designed to sense conductivity so: How will the saw stop function when ripping wet wood and lots of it where the water is sraying everywhere; Or on site when a bit of rain is falling; When there are stupid people employed and abusing the saw; In electrical storms; Power fluctuations; Static electricity from the dust collection pipes connected to the saw; How about cutting plastics or other materials not usually associated with conductivity; Will it perform the same in 10 years as it did when new; Could it be activated by a heavy and or sudden impact to the saw; How about ripping a piece of wood that has a nail or hidden length of wire in it; How is constant vibration and bombardment of debry going to effect the circuitry. Could the mechanical part of the saw stop plug up with debry and be rendered useless with out the operator knowing till it was too late...

It has a by-pass for when ripping non ferrous metals - hope no one forgets to turn it on. That would be a very expensive brain fart.

If that device fails for any reason the law suit could be in the millions. It needs to be tested with the intent of finding it's flaws not its virtues. I would suspect this to be the main reason why General, Delta, Powermatic... have not jumped on it. Or why government regulators aren't beating a path to their door yet. I hope the guy who invented the sawstop has very high liability insurance.

[LineLefty]

I admire these guys. So many detractors for what is such a brilliant idea. Every man and his dog has told them why it wouldnt work. Including Jet and Delta. Yet they've told them to all get stuffed and are keepin on keepin on.

It's a great idea, if you cut your finger off, I'm sure you'd wish you had one.

[MathewA]

It's cause our beer has twice the alcohol than theirs, otherwise we'd be just as worked up.




I thought funny yanks are by definition Canadian :D

[monoman]

You know, not matter how special you think you are on a saw, no matter how many incident free years you have, and regardless of how much care you take. Things can happen outside the control of the best of them - they're called ACCIDENTS. They happen for all kinds of reeasons.

Imagine you're happily ripping some wood, and something external happens which was entirely out of your control and causes your fingers to come in contact with the blade. You will be singing the praises of the saw stopper then. That's why it's a good thing. PERIOD!

[NewLou]

Heres some good old Aussie know how on how to keep all those fingures when using a table saw. As the GrrrrrrriPPer promo states "Bullitproof your fingures"

http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/grr-ripper.htm

The way I see it anything that helps a DOLT like me keep safe has gotta be a good thing

I think I'll get one of these...............................

Regards Lou

[monoman]

Whatever happened to the Old Lou?

[Dean]

The GRR-Ripper is well worth the cost, even if it does seem like a lot.
I use mine religiously, not because I'm religious, but because its a very useful device indeed... the safety aspect is almost just an added bonus :)

[Corunetes]

I do believe that you are all missing the point...................... First.....Kill the lawyers and then we will be able wreak any type of havoc we want to upon our frail little bodies................ Make sure the teflon judges are against that brick wall too!

[echnidna]

I do believe that you are all missing the point...................... First.....Kill the lawyers and then we will be able wreak any type of havoc we want to ......

Just like the Taliban and El Quader

[Corunetes]

Just like the Taliban and El Quader


There you go.......! :eek:

[HappyHammer]

That's more up Al's alley, isn't it?

:D :D :D :D
Does it hurt Al? :eek:

[ozwinner]

Only when I giggle. :(


Al :p