Machine vices

[neksmerj]

I can't believe this, my mate who is keeping my Arboga mill in storage for me until I build a shed, lent the machine vice that came with it, to one of his mates. OK, it was ugly and made in Russia, but at least it was a vice.

Of course I'm not happy about it, and will eventually will get it back, I hope. If the worse comes to the worst, and I have to buy another, what is a good brand to buy?

Something fairly squat, and maybe with a turntable base. I know Glacern make a really nice unit, but it's a lot of dollars, nearly as much as I paid for the mill.

A. What size?
B. Turntable or not necessary?
C. New or used?
D. Value for money

Your comments are appreciated.

Ken

[Dave J]

I am not sure of the size of vice you would need for your mill, but I bought one similar to this and am happy with it over the K type. They come with the swivel base so it's up to you if you want to use it, but mine lives in the cupboard as it's more rigid with out it.
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=V3061

They do have smaller ones but they are around the same price because they are Vertex brand
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=V304

They are said to eliminate jaw lift, but they don't eliminate it all and you still have to use a dead blow hammer to seat the job on parallels.

Dave

[Stustoys]

Ken,
Do you have a clamp set?
You might find "Milling Complete Course" a good read.
I've got a copy around here somewhere.
Stuart

[new_guy90]

I second getting a Vertex angle lock vice they are much better than most others



They are said to eliminate jaw lift, but they don't eliminate it all and you still have to use a dead blow hammer to seat the job on parallels.

Dave

They certainly do help, the jaws wont be kicked up but that wont mean the part has lifted

[Pete F]

I'll second what Stuart said, read that book before rushing into buying a vice. Don't get me wrong, you WILL need a vice eventually, but Harold's book will possibly change your perspectives on work holding. I think we've all become too reliant on the vice, and just presume it's the only way to hold work. In fact other hold down methods are probably more appropriate in certain circumstances, but unless you've been exposed to them then they may not be an automatic thing to turn to.

Maybe not the question you were asking Ken, but possibly the answer just the same. FWIW I bought a cheap-ass vice from the Adelaide ebay seller, just a crappy vice. Out of interest I indicated it on the surface plate and it seemed to be within quoted spec. For a small machine it probably does just fine, but once one's machine size starts going up it's time to get more serious. GregQ has a very nice vice and he may be able to assist. Just keep in mind that, unlike clamps, a vice needs to hold the work PLUS be parallel/square to be truly accurate. From what I could see even my Chinese vice was ground accurately, and seems to hold ok. More exotic vices will pull the work down as they clamp, and that's eventually what I'd like, but really as long as the work doesn't shift ... it's a method of securing the work. I don't think I've ever seen a thread recommending the best hold down studs :U

Pete

[Dave J]

I'll second what Stuart said, read that book before rushing into buying a vice. Don't get me wrong, you WILL need a vice eventually, but Harold's book will possibly change your perspectives on work holding. I think we've all become too reliant on the vice, and just presume it's the only way to hold work. In fact other hold down methods are probably more appropriate in certain circumstances, but unless you've been exposed to them then they may not be an automatic thing to turn to.

Maybe not the question you were asking Ken, but possibly the answer just the same. FWIW I bought a cheap-ass vice from the Adelaide ebay seller, just a crappy vice. Out of interest I indicated it on the surface plate and it seemed to be within quoted spec. For a small machine it probably does just fine, but once one's machine size starts going up it's time to get more serious. GregQ has a very nice vice and he may be able to assist. Just keep in mind that, unlike clamps, a vice needs to hold the work PLUS be parallel/square to be truly accurate. From what I could see even my Chinese vice was ground accurately, and seems to hold ok. More exotic vices will pull the work down as they clamp, and that's eventually what I'd like, but really as long as the work doesn't shift ... it's a method of securing the work. I don't think I've ever seen a thread recommending the best hold down studs :U

Pete


I bought a Chinese Kurt style vice off Titan machinery 3-4 years ago for $180 and can't fault it, so they are out there. I suppose it depends on who made/machined it in China and what part of the week. LOL
As for a thread on hold down clamps/studs, like you said there are so many clamping methods it would be hard.
Have you got one of those screwless vices for Ozmestore? They would be a perfect size for your surface grinder for doing small parts and are accurate nicely finished.

Dave

[Pete F]

Dave, thanks for reminding me. I sent him a message about buying 2 and combining the postage. I thought a pair may be more useful and they're cheap enough! He asked me my post code and that's the last I heard back from him. I'll get on to that as at the moment I'm having to use my milling vice on it (still no magnetic chuck sadly). I was fiddling around with the spin indexer on it last night to see if I could get that to work on a surface grinder, but it just doesn't seem to be something that's going to be a happening thing by the looks of things. I was looking at a scenario to sharpen the tip of a centre punch, just for the heck, but looks like I'll need to wait for my T&C grinder to show up on ebay :doh:

Pete

[Dave J]

I would have thought having the spin indexer facing along the bed and lowering the wheel to suit the angle would have worked. Maybe I am missing something.

Dave

[Pete F]

Yes, the guard gets in the way. It's what I thought too, but the reality is it doesn't work and you need to approach it from the other angle as in a regular T&C grinder. A bit of a shame, but never mind.

[Anorak Bob]

It's going to be pretty hard to find something that compares with the Deckel vise, pictured below. This is an FP1 vise and I imagine, even harder to find than the mill it was made for. Check out the ways. Oh.. and Stuart, it's not mine.

BT

[Anorak Bob]

Pete,

A few of years ago, Hercus had a couple of vise bodies "but it now" for 70 clams each, on Ebay. I snapped one up. The original base fits onto the T&C grinder's vee'd table. I made the flat base to suit the mill table of the No.O. Something like this might be handy on your No.3 grinder. The handwheel is not a real clever idea for a mill vice. I had a 6" saw blade shatter when I was using the vise to hold something I was cutting. Scary.:o

BT

[Pete F]

Ok, thanks for that Bob, I'll keep my eyes open for one.

[neksmerj]

Stu, if possible, I would really like a copy of Milling, the Complete Course. I could drop in soon, and have a squize. This is a warning prompting you to clear a path between machines. I've heard about your workshop.

No, I don't have a set of milling clamps, it's on the list.

AB, you must have bought 200 litres of Hercus Green paint early in the piece, it's everywhere and looks great.

Thank's others for your input, I've been away and just getting back to the forum.

Ken

[Stustoys]

lol Well I did warn you its wasn't pretty. I'm trying to clean it up but then I start making something or buy a new machine and its a mess again, but I WILL GET THERE!!! Besides, I'm just about out of room for machinesl. And then there is the kitchen to finish, but we best not talk about that as she might hear and I wont be allowed back into the shed.
PM about when you want to call in.

Stuart

[welder]

i find i use my clamp kit more than the vise my vise is a 4 inch k type vise made in england i bought it at a garage sale for $75 and it holds true and tight.

[neksmerj]

Hey, got my Arboga machine vice back today, it's massive. It's not made by Arboga which is a pity, but Russian made, and made really well. Looks like the Ruskies made great vodka, and great vices.

The ground jaws measure 150mm in width, and open up to nearly 200mm. The whole kit and caboodle sits on a squat swivel base. I didn't bring it home, but left it in my mate's factory where I will strip it down, and clean it up. Maybe a lick of paint to boot.

I'm going back to the factory Monday, so will take some snaps then. Be patient.

What's a nice paint colour, besides pink. I'm thinking Hercus green.

Ken

[pipeclay]

Blue is ok,have you instructed your mate not to lend it out anymore.

[Anorak Bob]

"I'm going back to the factory Monday, so will take some snaps then. Be patient."

Oh! And I thought you'd lent your camera to Greg.:U

Dont paint it Hercus green. Everyone will think you bought too much of the stuff. Dull grey would be an appropriate Russian colour.

[neksmerj]

PC,

This vice ain't going anywhere, except my joint. Blue you reckon? Russian red, no?

It is already painted a sort of Hercus green, and since I still have half a tin, I reckon green it will be again.

Ken

[Ropetangler]

Ken,
If you do decide that you would like a copy of "Milling - A complete course", I have an absolutely mint copy, which I bought with a heap of other Workshop Practice series books to add to my collection of them while visiting Perth, W.A. When I got home I found that I already had that one, so I have doubled up.:doh: It is in brand new condition, no marks or folded page corners etc. It cost me $20, and if you pay me that I will pay postage to you, and wrap it well for protection. If you decide against getting it, I will put it in the For Sale section, so please don't feel obligated, I certainly won't be upset.
Most of the books of this series are really good, packed with info and good ideas, and in my view Harold Hall ranks right up with the best of the amateur machinist or modelling authors, see what you think after you see Stuart's copy. Regards,
Rob.

[neksmerj]

Hi Rob, that would be great to have an original copy.

I'll send you a PM.

Ken