Old line shaft bench drill

[bollie7]

G'day All.
I've been helping a friend clean out under her late fathers house and shed. He had this lovely looking old bench drill. It has the name "Superior" cast into the frame but I couldn't see anything else written on it. The picture quality isn't real good as I only had my phone with me.
She wanted to give it to me but she could do with the cash so I want to buy it off her . We eventually came to an agreement that I would see if I can find out what a fair price would be.
Does anyone know anything about these? I just love the look of it and I want to restore it.

thanks
bollie7

[Dave J]

I had one of these 25 years ago only a larger really heavy pedestal type and sold it for $50. Back then I didn't think about scrap price as it was low and I never really scraped anything. At the time I was glad to get rid of it out of the yard, but now I wish I didn't sell it.
If I was to see one again (like up your way where you can pick up some real good bargains on old tools) I would probably buy it to put in my planed antique garden display I am building, but wouldn't pay more than $30-$50 for it.
When you think of it who really wants it? Most people would just scrap it or throw it away to the tip. You can buy a used 16 speed pedestal drill for $100-$150.

Not to hijack your thread, I have to pick up a hand operated bench mounted drill press from my deceased mother in laws 3 doors down. I am going to put that in as well.

Dave

[bollie7]

I had one of these 25 years ago only a larger really heavy pedestal type and sold it for $50. Back then I didn't think about scrap price as it was low and I never really scraped anything. At the time I was glad to get rid of it out of the yard, but now I wish I didn't sell it.
I did a similar thing about 15 years ago, I also had an old horizontal Mill (a Cincinatti I think) which sat in the corner of my shed for years waiting for me to get around to it. Eventually I sold that because at the time I wasn't interested in restoring old machinery. Now I wish I had kept it.


If I was to see one again (like up your way where you can pick up some real good bargains on old tools) I would probably buy it to put in my planed antique garden display I am building, but wouldn't pay more than $30-$50 for it.
When you think of it who really wants it? Most people would just scrap it or throw it away to the tip. You can buy a used 16 speed pedestal drill for $100-$150.
Thats what I'm thinking, As a drill press its worth nothing. Worth more from a historical point of view which still wouldn't be much. Still I'd like to have it in the shed all restored, but I'm not one for artworks hanging on the wall. lol


Dave[/QUOTE]

[Dave J]

If she would be happy with $30, I would offer he that. It wouldn't be worth that much in scrap metal as the largest price I have seen scrap metal going for is $200 ton.

With the garden I am not one for having things hanging around as ornament either, but it's just to display a bit of family history. My wife is of the Holmes family where Holmesville originated from (we live in one of the original homes), so we have a lot of old tooling and things like that from past family, and larger things like an anvil that I still use and the drill press I spoke about from her father.
The garden is just outside my shed and is a 10ft triangle that we are going to put a roof on so I have some cover when walking down in the rain.
With all this old tooling around I thought it would be a good idea to get it out of the way and also be a conversational piece when friends come over.
On the corner of the house we have an old domed well that is dated 1896 that we still pump water out of for the horses and the garden.

Dave

[neksmerj]

Done up, that would go straight to the pool room.

It's gotta be worth more than $30, surely.

Ken

[Stustoys]

Depends. I paid $50 for a full height 6 inch column with a 2 inch backstay, 8 speed, 3 speed power feed and micrometer feed pillar drill. I've seen them got for as much as $350 but then this has some weight to it. A a garage sale good chance you would get nothing. On ebay anything could happen but most likely wouldn't. Sad to say I think $30 is a pretty good price.
If it was in my shed I might modify it for tapping.
Stuart

[Dave J]

Done up, that would go straight to the pool room.

It's gotta be worth more than $30, surely.

Ken

Ken you have let it out, there is no excuse for not having your mill at home.:no:
If you have enough room for a pool table, clear it out to put your mill and lathe in there. Then you will have all the comforts of home, including air conditioning.:D
Come on whats more important, a game of pool or machining?

Just think it would only be a couple of steps away to coffee, meals and the toilet. You wouldn't have to go through the hassle of building the shed (unless you need to put the pool table in) and your tooling wont rust.

Dave

[Dave J]

If it was in my shed I might modify it for tapping.
Stuart

Great idea Stuart, I have one of those little 1/3hp Arlec bench top drill press that Kmart used to sell. My wife picked it up because it was on clearance for $40 when she was out shopping one day. I was thinking of modding it for a tapping stand, as it's not much good as a drill because of the runout. I have seen other guys convert them for the same thing.

Talking of tapping stands, have you seen one of those new mag base tapping stands in person from H&F's? The ones that you spoke about in one of your PM's.
I am just wondering how they hold the different size taps in them, maybe they come with a selection of collets, though it doesn't mention it in the add.

Dave

[Stustoys]

Now that's funny Dave, you got your drill from the same place I did.

By the look of it is have a proper tap chuck on it. If you haven't seen one, at the front something like a collet chuck but with a much wider range, it has eight (from memory) steel pieces mounted in a plastic holder that acts like the collet. Behind that is a clamp(two pieces of steel on a bolt with left and right hand threads) that grips the square drive of the tap. I have one in the shed I'd get some pictures tomorrow.
Stuart

[Dave J]

You bought one instead of making it? LOL
I thought they where a bit expensive for what they do, did you buy through them, or someone else?

Dave

[Stustoys]

No, I dont have the H&F item. I just happen to have a tapping chuck is all. The sad part is where I got the tapping chuck from.

Stuart

[Stustoys]

I was wrong, it has six jaws

[Anorak Bob]

That looks mighty like a Jacobs Rubber - Flex collet or copy thereof. How well does it work ?

Rubber-Flex Collets (http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/RF_Collet.html)

[Stustoys]

BT,
It is indeed a Jacobs No42102.
As far as I know they work great, but I've only used them with taps up to M4 so thats no big deal. Hey maybe it would make a good tap wrench?

Stuart

[Anorak Bob]

Depends. I paid $50 for a full height 6 inch column with a 2 inch backstay, 8 speed, 3 speed power feed and micrometer feed pillar drill. I've seen them got for as much as $350 but then this has some weight to it. Stuart


Stuart,

Are you talking about something the Yanks call a camelback drill? At times I've yearned for Hercus' version, but they have always been too far away.

How about some nice detail snap shots of your drill.

BT

[Stustoys]

BT,
I've have no idea what they call it. As I have to unbury the drill today to finish off my rt adaptor I'll get some snaps(hiding as much of the mess as possible) .I think it maybe a Hercus. Poor drill has had a tiny motor(I guess about 1/3-1/2hp) since I have had it. The motor is mounted on a piece of 2mm sheet only bolted at one end, this lets you pull on a shoelace to slacken the belt when you turn the motor on. Then you slowly release the shoelace as the drill gets up to speed. The starter winding gets to hot if you try and start it on that alone. Now I have a VSD the old motor can go back on.

I had been thinking since I got the mill "do I really need the drill anymore?". I've just found out the answer to that.

Stuart

[Anorak Bob]

If it's the real deal, HERCUS is cast vertically into the frame above the machined round column. I have photos of a fairly complete drill at home. The drill is big. Makes my Waldown 3M look small. I'd love to see your photos.

BT

[Stustoys]

Its the real thing. It was bought by the company I bought it from(I believe it was second hand then) in 1957. The spindle has just over 7 1/2" travel and has a counter weight in the column, which is better than winding up a spring. It has the biggest 2hp motor I have ever seen with 3 vee belt pulleys. Infact I think the shaft is the same Dia as the 3hp motors I have.
I still have all the switching gear but I wont be able to make it work with a VSD without wreaking the insides. The table is just over 400mm Dia (maybe I should clean it up a little in the shaper?)
The vise is a little strange, it has "Made in England" cast into it but no makers name, only a sticker on the back of the fixed jaw. Not much left of it, does that look like a Hercus sticker?
If you'd like better pictures of anything or more numbers, let me know and I'll grab them for you.

Stuart

[Anorak Bob]

Stuart,

Thank you for posting the photos. Fiora Machinery, over here, have the same drill, set up solely for tapping. Guess it comes down to how much machine tapping you have to do. Most of my tapping is done by hand on the drill press with a guide in the chuck providing vertical alignment of the tap. A bit mickey mouse providing downfeed with my chin on the drill's feed handle while turning the tap handle with both hands.

I have a Piper tapping chuck buried away in a cupboard. I've only used it once to see how it worked. Works a bit too efficiently and quickly for what I've been doing.

You most probably have mentioned it in many other posts, but what is the nice looking shaper I see in the backgound? Is it an Invicta? Makes my Douglas look like a runt.

BT

[Dave J]

Stuart,
You call Bob a tool hoarder on here when you have things like this hidden away that he hasn't even got. LOL
Nice drill press.:2tsup:

Bob,
Here is a link to Stuarts shaper
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/my-invicta-4m-arrived-124309/

Dave

[festy_]

If it's the real deal, HERCUS is cast vertically into the frame above the machined round column. I have photos of a fairly complete drill at home. The drill is big. Makes my Waldown 3M look small. I'd love to see your photos.

BT
There was one of those on ebay a day or two ago, it was only 40 minutes south of me and sold for $130 or so, and appeared to be in pretty decent condition from the photos.
I was really tempted, but just couldn't justify having it around as well as a big mill. My wife is pretty supportive of my ever-expanding tool/machinery collection, but thought I'd better keep in her good books in case a big compressor or shaper were to suddenly appear in the shed :wink:

[RayG]

BT,
... this lets you pull on a shoelace to slacken the belt when you turn the motor on. Then you slowly release the shoelace as the drill gets up to speed.

Hi Stuart,

First drill I've ever heard of that needed to be bootstrapped.. :2tsup:

To explain... Bootstrapping (computing) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootstrapping_%28computing%29)

You need to install a line shaft..

Regards
Ray

[Stustoys]

BT,

Oh, I just remembered. there is one mod on the drill. I think you will find the power feed engage/disengage lever has been extended.
One other thing, its not the quietest drill in the world. The bevel gears on the spindle and the gears in the two speed gearbox are all straight cut.

I've never used a taping head like that one. Are there clutches in there or just gears? The taping machines I have used had a long vee belt going around two pulleys on the spindle with some sort of cone clutch. Pushing up on the spindle engaged the top clutch turning the spindle clockwise. Pulling down on the spindle engaged the bottom clutch turning the spindle anti-clockwise. All very gentle depending on how hard you pushed.

Ok confession time. 25ish years ago I took a tapping machine home as it was going in the bin. I was planning on making a drill press out of it(now you know where the chuck came from). Well when I got a "real" drill I didn't need to do that anymore. "Who needs a tapping machine at home? No one right?". So I think I smashed it to bits with a hammer, maybe I didn't, I'll have a look around down the back of my shed lol.

Yes is it, Dave beat me with the link.

Dave,
Oh I'm a hoarder alright, but I think the quality of my hoarding is a little lower than BT's. Other than my nice drill that is lol

festy
It amazing now nice this thing is to use. It doesn't open up like a lot of drill presses. Its just a little on the slow side for anything below about 1/4", although if you aren't in a hurry that doesn't matter so much.

Ray,
lol. I don't think this was ever line drive, but it must have been close. If you look at the bottom left of the first picture you'll see the offending bootstrap

Stuart

[Anorak Bob]

I pulled the Piper to bits when I first acquired the thing. Unlike me, the camera was not nearby. If there is any interest I can dismantle it and snap away.

All the catalogue images of the Hercus drill I have, show it with a rear, base mounted motor.

I would guess the drill vise has nothing to do with Hercus given that it was made in England. I will have a look in my 50's copy of Buck and Ryan's catalogue. It may shed some light on it.

BT

[new_guy90]

If I was to see one again (like up your way where you can pick up some real good bargains on old tools) I would probably buy it to put in my planed antique garden display I am building, but wouldn't pay more than $30-$50 for it.
When you think of it who really wants it? Most people would just scrap it or throw it away to the tip. You can buy a used 16 speed pedestal drill for $100-$150.

Dave

You haven't been on the PM's Antiques forum lol

loads of people would love such a machine, Me i would give $75 :wink:

[Stustoys]

BT,
I'd like to see the insides when you have a minute. Thanks.
I assume that even the machine taps they have to be a lowish % thread depth? I think I generally use way to much thread depth.

Would you like some better pictures of the vice?


Stuart

[Anorak Bob]

I opened my copy of the 1949 McPhersons catalogue and there it was. A Parkinson XL machine vice. The final photo is from the the 1964 Buck and Ryan catalogue.

Bob.

[Stustoys]

Thanks BT,
That sure looks like my vice, its has 4" jaws although I make the opening 9".
I'll take some more measurements in the morning.
For the record I don't believe I am responsible for any of the drill holes. Although considering its age there aren't that many. It maybe better than either of the other vices on my mill. I'd had it in mind if I had a job that was to long for the others but maybe I should give it a try.

Stuart

[bollie7]

Stuart
What are the words cast into the side of the drill press in the first pic? approx in line with the lower quill support.
bollie7

[bollie7]

So does anyone know anything about the "Superior" bench drill? I'm hoping that when I get it out of where it is that there is some more info on it somewhere else.

bollie7

[Anorak Bob]

Bollie,

I had a look through all my old catalogues this morning and unfortunately cannot find any reference to your machine. I will have a look through my myriad photos. I may have something hidden away.

The cast words should read " Made in Australia". They do on the photos I have of the 22 inch drill.

BT

[Stustoys]

bollie7,
I assume you have seen this.
Well its not worth £45. Although your's is a little flasher. Whats "british make" mean?
VINTAGE LARGE HEAVY DUTY SUPERIOR BENCH PILLAR DRILL | eBay UK (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-LARGE-HEAVY-DUTY-SUPERIOR-BENCH-PILLAR-DRILL-/190519841373?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET)
Stuart

[Stustoys]

Stuart
What are the words cast into the side of the drill press in the first pic? approx in line with the lower quill support.
bollie7
A picture is faster than my typing

[Anorak Bob]

To me, these old pillar drills are as much sculpture as machine. The closest thing I have is this little Buffalo Forge drill. Of all the gear in the shed, this is the thing people are drawn to. My daughter reckons it's her favourite and my wife suggested mounting it on the wall inside the house. This harks from when men were men and mutilated hands, common. Try drilling a hole with one.

BT

[Stustoys]

You win ;)
"working" sculpture.
Is that a crank on the right hand side?
With a cam driven auto feed?
What's the hand wheel on the left for? just a flywheel?

Do you think she would let you use it once it was inside? lol

Stuart

p.s. MY vice matches up with your catalogue, width 8.6". length 19.7", but opening is 9". I guess its underrated.

[Anorak Bob]

Yes, yes and both. It would be more useful if the crank was fitted with a ratchet enabling freewheeling. It won't go inside. Some plonker would be bound to crush a finger when they were fiddling with it. Stuart, I forked out more than fifty bucks for it so that means we could swap.:U

[Stustoys]

BT,
I thought my drill was a little scary until I saw yours lol
Can you believe when I bought that drill my old supervisor was upset because there was a shaper(around 18 inch) as well and because I paid $50 for the drill the boss wanted $50 for the shaper. My supervisor didn't want to pay that much. If only I had known I would be looking for one I could have at least got the vice.

Postage would be a killer :wink:

Stuart

[Anorak Bob]

You may find interest in this site

VintageMachinery.org - Manufacturers Index Search (http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/Search.aspx?criteria=drill)

[Stustoys]

wow that should keep me busy for awhile.
Thanks
Stuart

[bollie7]

bollie7,
I assume you have seen this.
Well its not worth £45. Although your's is a little flasher. Whats "british make" mean?
VINTAGE LARGE HEAVY DUTY SUPERIOR BENCH PILLAR DRILL | eBay UK (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-LARGE-HEAVY-DUTY-SUPERIOR-BENCH-PILLAR-DRILL-/190519841373?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET)
Stuart

Thanks Stuart, I hadn't seen that, Looks the same brand as the one I've bought. I'm keen to get it out and back to my place though I have no where to work on it until I get my new shed built.(which hopefully will be in a few months time - yes)
bollie7

[bollie7]

Bollie,

I had a look through all my old catalogues this morning and unfortunately cannot find any reference to your machine. I will have a look through my myriad photos. I may have something hidden away.
BT

Thanks.
bollie7