Universal Table Adjuster for Euro Mill

[Anorak Bob]

Ken made a comment a while back when he viewed a photo of the universal table on my mill set at an angle. It was about the need to accurately realign the table after each acrobatic manoeuvre. The realignment is tedious. Plenty of tapping with a hide mallet and checking with an indicator. Found a use for the cable release on the Mahr indicator. I had been using a Chinese parallel to straddle the tee slots until I found out on Sunday that the parallel didn't live up to it's name.

Deckel produced a series of technical bulletins for their machine owners. These bulletins contained a lot of useful information and included tips from users. One tip was a fine adjuster for X axis rotation. The catch with the design is the inability to install and remove the adjuster without either leaving a tee nut in place which limits the amount of rotation, or having to completely dismantle the table to remove the nut. I think I have worked out a way around this by having a nut that would twist into place.

I think at least four forum members have these tables. Phillip "metalman" has come up with a different style of adjuster based on using a nut and bolt as a screw jack. This is placed between the table and a cast rib on the table mount. My understanding of Phillip's device is that two spanners are required for adjustment. The other adjuster uses a single hex key.

Here are a few photos. I might have a go at this over the weekend. A nice cast iron project.

BT

[Pete F]

Bob, once the table is in the correct position is it possible to machine up appropriate size "spacers" that you could bolt in to appropriate positions and use them as stops for when you need the table back in the horizontal position. Remove them for when you need full table travel. When you need to return the table to horizontal, reinsert these spacers/stops and move the table back to them. Hopefully that makes sense.

While removable stops may not result in the table returning to absolutely perfect position, done properly it should be possible to get the table VERY close, and would possibly allow a much closer starting point from which to fine tune the table if you felt it was necessary.

Pete

Edit: Upon further thought, I'm sure a man of your talent Bob could even incorporate some form of thread within the whole design, thereby dispensing with the rawhide altogether ... well unless you're in to that sort of thing of course ;)

[Dave J]

Hi Bob,
What about something like below. The swivel foot with the thin rubber pad (or elec tape) would stop any scratching on your machine and having it under the adjustment bolt would allow it to be swung down out of the way when you tilt the table.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167694&stc=1&d=1303287400


Dave

[Greg Q]

I was just ruminating over my universal table, and I think a Norris adjuster style jack, in 1/2" or larger stock, would be all that was required. An eye (or rod end) to fit over an extended tee-stud. If you made it with both left and right hand threads it would be a one-spanner adjustment. But it would only work in the tilt-up direction unless it could also be fixed to the casting flange.

(Just like Dave has illustrated above, on edit. I should have refreshed before I posted)

I have to admit that I don't think I'll be leaving mine on all the time as I also have the fixed table. Depends on what kind of crane I end up with near the machines, as I cannot lift and fasten either one of those tables without the risk of injury or death. :! or worse.

[Anorak Bob]

Thank you for your suggestions, Pete, Dave and Greg. I was talking to Phillip on Friday about this and I mentioned that I had entertained the idea of some kind of floor mounted screw jack. The advantage of such a thing would be it's ability to provide adjustment to both the X and Z axes. I may still have a go at the Deckelesque adjuster because it looks like it might be a quick and simple little thing to make.

I wouldn't swap the universal table for a fixed table but having the fixed version also would sure be handy. Still, I have my 1um Mahr indicator for some fine tuning of the universal, it's just that the process is a pain the freckle.

BT

[Anorak Bob]

I just finished my Deckelesque table adjuster and could not be happier with the way it works. I based it loosely on the adjuster designed by Peter Fischer in the illustration above but changed a couple of things. His design features a tee nut that is only removable by dismantling the table and he has a single locating lug or key on the underside of the body of the adjuster. I thought a continuous curved key would be more positive and an easily removable tee nut, an improvement. Having a mental aberration that makes me disinclined to prepare drawings for myself meant the first attempt at milling the curved key was a failure because it was upside down. :doh:The radius was greater than I could acheive with my little 6 inch table hence the Mickey Mouse outrigger. Still, the results were o.k, the process, nerve racking. The rest of the milling was straight forward. I remembed reading years ago about ball bearings being useful as parallels. I found out how true that was today. The curved key was in the way preventing the use of normal parallels.

I finished it off with my Blackfast solution and installed it. With the table loosened, an effortless turn of the cap screw gently raises or lowers the table. I will try out the Mahr Millimess 1um indicator tomorrow.

BT

[neksmerj]

AB,

You've done it again. And here's me thinking you just buy stuff to have, and don't actually make anything.

Nice concept, and matches the non green mill perfectly.

Good stuff,

Ken

[Dave J]

Looks good Bob and good to hear it works the way you want it to.

Ken,
Come on, Bob has shown plenty of projects to show he uses the gear.

Dave

[RayG]

Hi Bob,

Nice job, and well thought out. Congratulations.

Regards
Ray

[Stustoys]

Evening Bob,
Came up great. How did you get the nice radius around the counter bore? on the rotary table?

Stuart

[Anorak Bob]

Thanks Boys.

It's always a bonus when something works better than you expected. Deckel wouldn't have included it in their publication if it was not a successful idea. The skewed nut was the success for me. Rounding off the body behind the mounting screw enables me see whether the nut is properly seated. The thing can be installed and removed in a few seconds. I had entertained the idea of spring loading the nut to aid in it's positioning in the tee slot but as it turns out I can easily move the nut into place with my finger.

Bob.

[neksmerj]

Dave,

are you suggesting that I question whether AB actually makes things. I'm pretty sure he doesn't race down to the local farrier or blacksmith, have something whipped up, race back home, then set it up on the mill with a fair sprinkling of cast iron dust, and say, wallah.

"Here's the pictures".

To say such a thing, you need another top-up.

Ken

[Anorak Bob]

Stu,

Eyeballed it using the disc sander on the end of my grinder. Should have changed the sanding disc. Those things generate too much heat when they are close to worn out. Still burnt my fingers through a leather glove. Laziness comes with a price :doh:

Bob

[Anorak Bob]

I'm with Dave, KJ. I thought "what the f... more do I need to do!":U I was thinking you had me branded as a bloody dilettante because of my toy collection.

[Dave J]

Ken,
I took yours as a joke and thought mine would be taken the same way. I don't think anything I have seen of Bob's that looks like it came from a farrier or blacksmith, those guys don't leave that kind of finish.
I will have another cupa, since I gave away drinking 3 years ago.

Dave

[Stustoys]

You have a good eye then Bob, even if you do have sore fingers lol
Its amazing how little touchs like that radius takes it from "something that works" like I build, to "something that looks like its meant to be there" like you build.
Stuart

[Anorak Bob]

You after another package Stu?:U

[Stustoys]

The only package I need BT is more pactice. I'm working on a spindle back stop made out of a Macpherson strut cartridge ATM lol. Not sure it will look as pretty as your work.

Stuart

[neksmerj]

AB,

I sincerely hope you didn't think I was taking a shot at you. All tongue-in-cheek.

You and Greg must get together and Google up some pretty impressive words, just to keep us wackers at bay. "dilettante".


A person who claims an area of interest, such as the arts, without real commitment or knowledge.

Ken

[Dave J]

I agree Ken, those words are not in my vocabulary. I must have been away the days they taught those in school.
Google sorts them out though.lol

Dave

[RayG]

AB,
You and Greg must get together and Google up some pretty impressive words, just to keep us wackers at bay. "dilettante".
Ken

Ken,

I think you are indulging in sadoequinonecrophilia, although that's a bit sesquipedalian on my part.... :D

Regards
Ray

[neksmerj]

RG

indubitably.

Ken

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Ken,

I think you are indulging in sadoequinonecrophilia, although that's a bit sesquipedalian on my part.... :D

Regards
Ray

Dictionary fell open at 'S'? :D

[Greg Q]

I am just now catching up on some of these posts. Bob: Me like. I have saved this for future reference. Words fail me.:U

[Pete F]

Another nice job there Bob, that was pretty much what I had in my mind when I threw out my suggestion, with the exception that the non threaded side was longer so it located back on a casting or similar for repeatability.

Pete

[Anorak Bob]

Pete,

For repeatability I could back off the M8 adjusting screw and use the body of the adjuster as a stop BUT I'd have to be careful. My abbreviated tee nut is hardly robust enough to handle the weight of the table hitting the adjuster with anything more than a gentle impact. Peter Fischer's original adjuster wins in that regard.

Bob.

[Pete F]

Oh, ok, I thought the whole adjuster had to be removed for full table travel, I must have misunderstood. I was just imagining something that if the adjuster did need to be removed, it could be located back in precisely the same location, hence registering off the casting. The casting wouldn't take any force at all, merely register the stop. Looks like you have it nicely sorted now anyway.

Pete

[Anorak Bob]

What you are suggesting makes a lot of sense Pete. What I have made doesn't really work as a "back to perfect alignment" stop. Schaublin addressed this in the revised late 60s 13. They had a locating dowel incorporated in the table for the purpose of zeroing it.

My adjuster, and that of Peter Fischer's, would be useful for adjusting the table accurately to any angle. A stop, along the lines of your idea, would be real handy.

BT

[Anorak Bob]

I did away with the cap screw and the fumbling with an Allen key. The screw is 4140 and the handle a piece of stainless rod. Works as well as I hoped for.

BT

[Stustoys]

OK, now I think you're just rubbing it in. lol

Looks great BT.

Stuart

[RayG]

Hi Bob,

That looks very professional.. :2tsup: I like the round black knobs. Adds a nice touch of class.

Do you have a source for those?

Regards
Ray

[Stustoys]

Ray,
I've bought a couple from these guys.
RDG Tools - Online Engineering Tools Machine Balls (http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2erdgtools%2eco%2euk%2fcgi%2dbin%2fca000001%2epl%3fACTION%3dSHOWCART&WD=knob&PN=Machine_Balls%2ehtml%23a134634#a134634)

Stuart

[Anorak Bob]

Ray,

I bought mine from this firm -

Knobsballthreadedphenolic - Small Mechanical Parts And Components (http://www.smallparts.com.au/store/partslist/knobsballthreadedphenolic/handlesandknobs/wide/1/)

Bob

[Greg Q]

Bob, nice work as always. I need a few of those balls. The linked site's illustrations look like they have a raised seam- is that correct, or are they smooth all over?

Greg

[Anorak Bob]

Greg,

You are correct. I rendered it, and all the others I have used, seemless with a fine file and wet and dry paper while mounted on an arbor in the lathe. Quick and easy.

Bob.

[azzrock]

hi bob. i don't own a mill. i use one at work. dont tell any one but sometimes a get a bit of time to use it. no one else does. there is no tooling . only a vise, oh and one 50 mill face cutter. no inserts.
i have bought a few bits to use on it. because its not mine i really don't want to spend to much on tooling for it. thats why i havnt just bought the arbors i have to make. so i have a boring head some small end mills bulls nose cutters ect.only a drill chuck to lod them. now i also bought a seco 100mm face cutter. also no arbor. work i think wount buy the tooling. they see it as a distraction.
here is a photo.168823

[Dave J]

That adjuster came out really nice Bob and the handle sets it off, very professional looking.:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

Dave

[Anorak Bob]

Got it now Azz. Thank you for the clarification.

Bob.

[Dave J]

hi bob. i don't own a mill. i use one at work. dont tell any one but sometimes a get a bit of time to use it. no one else does. there is no tooling . only a vise, oh and one 50 mill face cutter. no inserts.
i have bought a few bits to use on it. because its not mine i really don't want to spend to much on tooling for it. thats why i havnt just bought the arbors i have to make. so i have a boring head some small end mills bulls nose cutters ect.only a drill chuck to lod them. now i also bought a seco 100mm face cutter. also no arbor. work i think wount buy the tooling. they see it as a distraction.
here is a photo.168823


If it's that much of a distraction they should get rid of it to the nearest buyer for cheap.:D

Dave

[neksmerj]

Azz,

You need a mill!. Reading between your lines, is a great passion to have your own. You don't want to be buying tooling for the work one, you need to concentrate on your needs. It's only money and life is short. That's what you tell your missus whilst handing over a "real" 1 carat diamond ring.

I dream't about it for years thinking a mill was a machine that belonged in a factory.

My opportunity came up, and I went for it. Not operational yet, but it's happening.

Ken

[Anorak Bob]

Thank you all for the kind comments.

It's funny how things evolve. My intention was initially to use a 6mm bolt with a smaller ball. It looked o.k. in relation to the tapered head of the adjusting screw but looked frail against the mass of the adjuster. I had some 8mm silver steel that looked better suited, size wise. The slot drill I used to bore the hole must have been dull. The hole ended up about 8.4mm in diameter. I found a piece of 8.35 diameter stainless rod. Looks like it's done the job.

Bob.

[Dave J]

You sound like me Bob, I get a picture in my head what something should look like and pick the materials. Then when assembling it, if it doesn't look right it's changed for visual effect. It's amazing that a little change in something or a curve here and there will make it look like it came from the factory and belong there, over something homemade.
You did a good job on that and adjusting the table will be so much easier.

Dave

[RayG]

Hi Bob,

Thanks to yourself and Stuart for those links.

I think there is some kind of business relationship between the smallparts web site and minibearings web site.

Knobsballthreadedphenolic - Miniature Mechanical Parts And Components (http://www.minibearings.com.au/store/partslist/knobsballthreadedphenolic/handlesandknobs/wide/1/)

Regards
Ray

[azzrock]

ive thought of that you know. next time i save the day ill ask them. i dont think it would be
the right thing to do to get rid of it. electricians run the place so you never know
i keep putting posts in the wrong threads sorry

If it's that much of a distortion they should get rid of it to the nearest buyer for cheap.:D

Dave

[Dave J]

You never know, you maybe able to barter and get it for some overtime shifts or something?

Dave